uncle bernard Posted October 1 Author Posted October 1 23 minutes ago, mspart said: Israel has been attacked more than any other country in the area since 1948. So they are likely going to kill more arabs since they are the ones attacking them. mspart You can't even keep your logic straight.
uncle bernard Posted October 1 Author Posted October 1 2 minutes ago, mspart said: And you are complaining about it when they defend themselves. They have not gone to war against anyone as the aggressor. They have answered the aggressor with very aggressive defense. And the world has a tizzy when that happens. Jordan and Egypt have learned their lesson. They don't do that anymore you'll notice. Iran has pushed them to their limit via hamas and hezbollah. Iran just fired over a hundred missiles at Israel. But I'm sure you will say Israel should not retaliate. That is just idiotic. Iran did this precisely for the carnage of hezbollah, they said so. Their favorite pet has been squashed because they were planting the seeds of major escalation. So your solution would be for Israel to forgive Iran for over a hundred missiles, hexbollah for constant rocket attacks, hamas for constant rocket attacks and an incursion that killed 1200 people and carried off 200 prisoners. It won't end until Israel is allowed to defend itself properly and learn these guys to stop attacking them like they did with Jordan and Egypt. mspart Why aren't the Arabs ever allowed to defend themselves? Israel was blockading Gaza and occupying the West Bank. They annexed the Golan Heights. All of those are acts of war under international law, the international law *we essentially wrote* post-WWII! But the law doesn't apply to them for some reason. Everybody understands Israel's right to defend itself. Killing 40,000+ people in Gaza by conservative estimates is not defense. That turned into offense a loooong time ago. You seem to think this thing should go tit for tat for all eternity. That's how toddlers think. If it's ever going to end, one side has to stop escalating. The arab states have been far more conciliatory in this aspect for years now. They just came out *again* and said they will have peace in exchange for a Palestinian state. Even Hamas accepts a two state solution. Israel does not.
mspart Posted October 1 Posted October 1 The logic is so simple you can't understand it. If attacked, you defend yourself heartily. Anything less invites more attacks and perhaps loss of the war. Arabs attack Israel, Arabs will die. That's the lesson since 1948. The corallary is similar. If Arabs don't attack Israel, Arabs and Israelis don't die. Everyone says Israel has to right to defend themselves, but cry they are too rough in defending themselves. I think Israel is tired of being constantly attacked. So they are eliminating hamas and have decimated the hezbollah fighters. Hence eliminating the threat. Arabs plot ways to kill Israelis. Israel plots ways to effectively defend itself. mspart 1
mspart Posted October 1 Posted October 1 6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: Why aren't the Arabs ever allowed to defend themselves? Israel was blockading Gaza and occupying the West Bank. They annexed the Golan Heights. All of those are acts of war under international law, the international law *we essentially wrote* post-WWII! But the law doesn't apply to them for some reason. Everybody understands Israel's right to defend itself. Killing 40,000+ people in Gaza by conservative estimates is not defense. That turned into offense a loooong time ago. You seem to think this thing should go tit for tat for all eternity. That's how toddlers think. If it's ever going to end, one side has to stop escalating. The arab states have been far more conciliatory in this aspect for years now. They just came out *again* and said they will have peace in exchange for a Palestinian state. Even Hamas accepts a two state solution. Israel does not. Although you reject this, you are pro hamas and pro hezbollah. Your statement above proves that. You say they now want peace for a Palestinian state. Because they are getting their butts handed to them. But they have rejected every such proposal in the past. They do not want a Palestinian state. They want Israel gone. Period. From the river to the sea. That is what they want. Israel is not in agreement so they are the bad guy. mspart 2
uncle bernard Posted October 1 Author Posted October 1 12 minutes ago, mspart said: Although you reject this, you are pro hamas and pro hezbollah. Your statement above proves that. You say they now want peace for a Palestinian state. Because they are getting their butts handed to them. But they have rejected every such proposal in the past. They do not want a Palestinian state. They want Israel gone. Period. From the river to the sea. That is what they want. Israel is not in agreement so they are the bad guy. mspart Hamas formally accepted a two-state solution maintaining the existence of Israel in 2017 in its official charter. That's a fact you're going to have a hard time getting around, but looking forward to seeing you try.
mspart Posted October 1 Posted October 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter In May 2017 Palestinian political and military organization Hamas unveiled A Document of General Principles and Policies (وثيقة المبادئ والسياسات العامة لحركة حماس), also referred to as the new or revised Hamas charter.[1][2] It accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, i.e. comprising the West Bank and Gaza strip only,[3] on the condition that also the Palestinian refugees were allowed to return to their homes,[4] if it is clear this is the consensus of the Palestinians[5] ("a formula of national consensus"[6]); but at the same time this document strove for the "complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea",[2][6] and did not explicitly recognize Israel.[3] The new charter holds that armed resistance against an occupying power is justified under international law.[1][7] While the 1988 Hamas Charter had been widely criticized for its antisemitism, the 2017 document stated that Hamas' fight was not with Jews as such because of their religion but with the Zionist project. However, Hamas fell short of repudiating the original, 1988 charter, saying it was a document of its time and the new document represented Hamas's position for now. Views on the 2017 document varied. While some welcomed it as a sign of pragmatism and increased political maturity, and a potential step on the way to peace, many others dismissed it as a merely cosmetic effort designed to make Hamas sound more palatable while changing nothing about Hamas' underlying aims and methods. The revised charter did not formally repudiate or revoke the previous one, with Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar saying that it is not a substitute for its founding charter. This does not describe what you said. You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that this means anything other than what they have always held. Good luck. mspart 1
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 1 hour ago, red viking said: Israel got off very light with all the new land that they decided to take themselves since 1948 and ongoing brutality against the Palestinians. In both Gaza and West Bank. the arabs played... and lost. that's called war. 1
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 1 hour ago, uncle bernard said: Israel's killed far far more arabs than the other way around. You're arguing against demonstrable reality and the only way that's possible is if you don't value arab lives the same as others. maybe they should work on their marksmanship? last i knew, attempted murder was still bad...
Husker_Du Posted October 1 Posted October 1 4 hours ago, uncle bernard said: For a year, the Biden administration has refused to curb Israeli escalation in the region (let alone the massacre in Gaza). Israel claims it's "de-escalating through escalation," whatever 1984 nonsense that is. We should have stopped them when they did "targeted" air strikes in other sovereign countries. We didn't. We should have stopped them when they carried out terror attacks in Lebanon. We didn't. We should have stopped them when the bombed Beirut and killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians. We didn't. Now the Iranians have said enough and swallowed the bait. Missiles are falling on Tel Aviv - real ones, not glorified fireworks. We will almost assuredly get dragged into a regional conflict to defend Israel, just like Netanyahu wanted. Congratulations to all the geniuses on here who wouldn't hear any criticism of Israel and our policy towards them. You're getting exactly what you asked for, whether you realize it or not. it's truly amazing how tribal you are. 2 TBD
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 2 hours ago, uncle bernard said: Why aren't the Arabs ever allowed to defend themselves? Israel was blockading Gaza and occupying the West Bank. They annexed the Golan Heights. All of those are acts of war under international law, the international law *we essentially wrote* post-WWII! But the law doesn't apply to them for some reason. Everybody understands Israel's right to defend itself. Killing 40,000+ people in Gaza by conservative estimates is not defense. That turned into offense a loooong time ago. You seem to think this thing should go tit for tat for all eternity. That's how toddlers think. If it's ever going to end, one side has to stop escalating. The arab states have been far more conciliatory in this aspect for years now. They just came out *again* and said they will have peace in exchange for a Palestinian state. Even Hamas accepts a two state solution. Israel does not. wow. isreal did those things in RESPONSE... 1
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 1 hour ago, mspart said: The logic is so simple you can't understand it. If attacked, you defend yourself heartily. Anything less invites more attacks and perhaps loss of the war. Arabs attack Israel, Arabs will die. That's the lesson since 1948. The corallary is similar. If Arabs don't attack Israel, Arabs and Israelis don't die. Everyone says Israel has to right to defend themselves, but cry they are too rough in defending themselves. I think Israel is tired of being constantly attacked. So they are eliminating hamas and have decimated the hezbollah fighters. Hence eliminating the threat. Arabs plot ways to kill Israelis. Israel plots ways to effectively defend itself. mspart i agree. however, isreal must not have been defending itself heartily enough. b/c Iran keeps sending money. 1
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 1 hour ago, uncle bernard said: Hamas formally accepted a two-state solution maintaining the existence of Israel in 2017 in its official charter. That's a fact you're going to have a hard time getting around, but looking forward to seeing you try. LOL
Scouts Honor Posted October 1 Posted October 1 The Palestine Liberation Organization has accepted the concept of a two-state solution since the 1982 Arab Summit. In 2017, Hamas announced their revised charter, which claims to accept the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognising the statehood of Israel.
Saylors_Tiny_Willie Posted October 2 Posted October 2 8 hours ago, red viking said: Israel's attack on Gaza was nothing remotely close Israel's counterattack on Gaza was nothing even close to proportiional to what was done to them. Thousands of Gazans dead; mostly civilians. This is what happens to you when you commit genocide for decades. Well, that's a FAFO.
WrestlingRasta Posted October 2 Posted October 2 11 hours ago, Husker_Du said: it's truly amazing how tribal you are 1
wrestlingguy Posted October 2 Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said: isreal responding to the hyenas If only it was an elephant teaching the hyena a lesson.
uncle bernard Posted October 2 Author Posted October 2 17 hours ago, Husker_Du said: it's truly amazing how tribal you are. Did you think my post was supportive of the Biden administration?
uncle bernard Posted October 2 Author Posted October 2 17 hours ago, Husker_Du said: Bernard: "This is Israel's fault"
Bigbrog Posted October 2 Posted October 2 2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: Did you think my post was supportive of the Biden administration? No your posts are supportive of Humas and Hezbollah...and now Iran 1 1
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