Weird video (in reference to Starocci and separately, youth wrestlers)

[Dogbone]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Brakan Mead.  I’m sure it did help him in particular especially if he got any scholarship money.  Looks like he won a state title as a senior at 113, then wrestled 2 years at Ohio State getting a few starts, with his best win being over Jack Medley.

It probably helps the guys the most that are on the borderline of being D1 or not.  Not sure it makes much difference for the elite guys though. 

I agree it can make sense for some guys.  It should be a family decision and its not right for everyone.  Braken's speech (that the club itself posted to social media) seems to be a blanket approach everyone should do it and to me its an overstep for a club coach to push kids to be held back.  If you need to game the system to have success, that tells me all I need to know about his ability to coach.

[flyingcement]

Growing up, it was regular for this to be done for very competitive guys. I knew quite a few 16 year old high school freshman

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Growing up, it was regular for this to be done for very competitive guys. I knew quite a few 16 year old high school freshman

I agree, this is nothing new and it's not my place to decide what is or isn't the best thing for a kid to do.

I've only commented here because it's his philosophy and he's commented on it many times before the video was posted. It's not a joke. It wasn't meant to be funny. And the folks saying that it is...are incorrect. Brakan's stance on this is well known.

 

[Gus]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Ben Askren, a pretty good wrestler and coach, doesn't seem to be a fan of holding kids back.  I know he definitely feels NOT being held back helped him in the long run.  His belief is that graduating on time gave him quicker access to tougher training partners, D1 competition, D1 training and facilities, and D1 coaching (although he had a great high school coach.)  He felt that getting all that stuff a year earlier (actually on time) put him ahead of many of his contemporaries.

I’ve listened to enough FRL to know that this is not Askren’s take on this issue. He thinks kids that adequate size and skill level should not be held back. He thinks that kids that are not adequate size or skill level should be held back. He doesn’t really support a one size fits all approach but rather tailored to what he sees as best for each kid. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Gus said:

I’ve listened to enough FRL to know that this is not Askren’s take on this issue. He thinks kids that adequate size and skill level should not be held back. He thinks that kids that are not adequate size or skill level should be held back. He doesn’t really support a one size fits all approach but rather tailored to what he sees as best for each kid. 

Ok, perhaps...but he always makes fun of PA kids being held back and 100% thinks that if he were held back that it would have hindered his development.  100% said that on Flo.  

So the part of my post you disagree with is where i said "doesn't seem to be a fan of holding kids back?" It was a very small part of the post, and was my impression based on HIS views on HIS OWN situation, which I absolutely stand by.

[Dark Energy]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:09 PM, TNwrestling said:

you realize hes being facetious right?

You realize he is not being facetious right?  Lots of people saying he is completely serious.

 

 

[billyhoyle]

55 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

You realize he is not being facetious right?  Lots of people saying he is completely serious.

 

 

I think he is purposefully being edgy to get attention on social media. Who knows what he actually believes, but the point of the video is clearly to draw attention to himself. I'm sure he'll release some other video soon enough with some other edgy claim.

My take is that a student should never be held back for the purpose of athletics. It does make back to hold students back who can't keep up with the rest of the class, especially during earlier years.

But I do think it is fair to recognize that stringent month cutoffs for class year don't really make sense. Some states base the cutoff point on the school year, others on the calendar year. I don't have a problem with kids who are born in July through December having the option to start the following calendar year (e.g. so that they turn 18 prior to or during their senior year). 19 year olds shouldn't be allowed to compete in high school sports though.  

[MPhillips]

6 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

I think he is purposefully being edgy to get attention on social media. Who knows what he actually believes

Fair. Although he's posted the same many times. Going back months...

[1032004]

12 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

I think he is purposefully being edgy to get attention on social media. Who knows what he actually believes

 

[flyingcement]

https://x.com/TheReattack/status/1830027178517356990?t=qxzGETrK3YnTH7WfposRXw&s=19

Edited August 31, 2024 by flyingcement

[wrestle87]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:48 PM, KCMO2 said:

Guy's an idiot.  He uses the only (possible) 5x NCAA champ ever as a reason why kids should get held back.  Guessing this douche doesn't have kids.

Getting held back is market standard for competitive athletes in wrestling, and has been for a long time now.  They spend some time talking about that in the RBY documentary Flo did.

[wrestle87]

On 8/30/2024 at 6:43 PM, billyhoyle said:

I think he is purposefully being edgy to get attention on social media. Who knows what he actually believes, but the point of the video is clearly to draw attention to himself. I'm sure he'll release some other video soon enough with some other edgy claim.

My take is that a student should never be held back for the purpose of athletics. It does make back to hold students back who can't keep up with the rest of the class, especially during earlier years.

But I do think it is fair to recognize that stringent month cutoffs for class year don't really make sense. Some states base the cutoff point on the school year, others on the calendar year. I don't have a problem with kids who are born in July through December having the option to start the following calendar year (e.g. so that they turn 18 prior to or during their senior year). 19 year olds shouldn't be allowed to compete in high school sports though.  

There are some club coaches who will give advice that is meaningfully practical for their athlete’s success, and some who will just teach techniques.  The two are allowed, and go hand-in-hand.  From a physical development and technique development perspective, a whole year makes an enormous difference, especially when you don’t have to spend that whole year just sitting in middle school classes, basically big group babysitting with some reading lessons.  

The coach is giving practical advice, if these athletes get good, they can make far more from NIL than they will with whatever “degree” they will earn. AA status—> half a mil—>investible assets and a property portfolio before you graduate college.  What’s wrong with raising your kids to be smart entrepreneurs?

[Caveira]

It’s immoral….. and should not be encouraged or condoned.  

[MPhillips]

22 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

What’s wrong with raising your kids to be smart entrepreneurs?

I believe it's because, they aren't, "his" kids...

[scorenomore]

1 - holding back has been very popular for good reason before NIL. It allows for better physical and mental development-please don’t try to argue against this. 
2-in the NIL era, there are far more “potential rewards” for wrestlers than there have ever been, so giving your athlete the best chance often means, great coaching, great academics and holding back for max preparation for college. 
3-I have asked my wrestling kids if they wanted to hold back and the conversation maybe lasted 1 minute. It was a quick no and we moved on. Oldest started high school weighing 103 on a full feed and did just fine. Youngest is tracking the same and we are not holding back.  I have several friends that held their kids back.  It was hard during the holdback year, then good for 2-3 years and then possibly a mistake for the senior year because their kids were top 5 in the country and were basically untouchable without going to national events. 
4-Caring parents often look out for the best interests of their kids and should be left to make decisions that are in their best judgment. Rules should be in place to protect the kids. I would bet that there are a lot of holdbacks in football because the physical maturity that is needed in such a punishing contact sport. 
5-maybe the question back to the coach is, why can’t you prepare my kid without being held back

6-coach is a good guy and just telling it like it is!

[wrestle87]

2 hours ago, MPhillips said:

I believe it's because, they aren't, "his" kids...

This entire argument of “he should just teach techniques, he has no business giving life advice” is just out of date.  Mediocre coaches teach technique.  Great coaches show you the path objectively.

As long as these are the rules in place, it behooves athletes to make the most of the ruleset.  If a 19 year old can compete in high school, that kid will also be a year closer to physical preparedness to compete.   NIL has effectively removed the viability of redshirt years, so it makes sense that the deferred year for physical maturation would still get worked in somewhere.

[Dogbone]

5 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

The coach is giving practical advice, if these athletes get good, they can make far more from NIL than they will with whatever “degree” they will earn. AA status—> half a mil—>investible assets and a property portfolio before you graduate college.  What’s wrong with raising your kids to be smart entrepreneurs?

Even in the NIL world, you have to be AA level talent and actually accomplish it to get the bold part.   Not everyone is and its doubtful the ~10 kids he called out by name are all of that level. 

He isn't giving practical advise, he is taking a blanket stance that doesn't necessarily apply to all kids.   

Sure if you have the chance to earn half a mil, kids should take it, but lets not be naive enough to claim that any kid that steps on a mat has the opportunity to earn a half a mil before they graduate.  About 1% of HS wrestlers compete in D1, less than that will start and even less will AA.  

We can teach kids to be smart entrepreneurs and good at statistics too.  Every kid that gets held back and doesn't make that NIL $ is now a year later in the earning potential. 

 

[billyhoyle]

5 hours ago, scorenomore said:

1 - holding back has been very popular for good reason before NIL. It allows for better physical and mental development-please don’t try to argue against this. 
2-in the NIL era, there are far more “potential rewards” for wrestlers than there have ever been, so giving your athlete the best chance often means, great coaching, great academics and holding back for max preparation for college. 
3-I have asked my wrestling kids if they wanted to hold back and the conversation maybe lasted 1 minute. It was a quick no and we moved on. Oldest started high school weighing 103 on a full feed and did just fine. Youngest is tracking the same and we are not holding back.  I have several friends that held their kids back.  It was hard during the holdback year, then good for 2-3 years and then possibly a mistake for the senior year because their kids were top 5 in the country and were basically untouchable without going to national events. 
4-Caring parents often look out for the best interests of their kids and should be left to make decisions that are in their best judgment. Rules should be in place to protect the kids. I would bet that there are a lot of holdbacks in football because the physical maturity that is needed in such a punishing contact sport. 
5-maybe the question back to the coach is, why can’t you prepare my kid without being held back

6-coach is a good guy and just telling it like it is!

Holding a kid back for academic or behavioral issues can make sense in certain cases. Holding somebody back purely for athletics simply doesn't make any sense. If the point is to provide an advantage for athletics, it makes much more sense to either do a gap year after graduating or something like a PG year. 

[flyingcement]

I can recall more than few cases where it ended up eroding confidence long-term in a young man's belief in his own ability to achieve success without a structural advantage.  

[TexRef]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:35 AM, MPhillips said:

Fair. Although he's posted the same many times. Going back months...

@MPhillipsMaybe you should say it one more time, for those in the back. 

[wrestle87]

On 9/1/2024 at 6:50 PM, billyhoyle said:

Holding a kid back for academic or behavioral issues can make sense in certain cases. Holding somebody back purely for athletics simply doesn't make any sense. If the point is to provide an advantage for athletics, it makes much more sense to either do a gap year after graduating or something like a PG year. 

Except that athletes completely forego the ability to accumulate better high school accolades as a result of getting that year of training/growth in earlier on.

[scorenomore]

On 9/1/2024 at 6:50 PM, billyhoyle said:

Holding a kid back for academic or behavioral issues can make sense in certain cases. Holding somebody back purely for athletics simply doesn't make any sense. If the point is to provide an advantage for athletics, it makes much more sense to either do a gap year after graduating or something like a PG year. 

Cost of postgrad > cost of living at home

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Except that athletes completely forego the ability to accumulate better high school accolades as a result of getting that year of training/growth in earlier on.

Who cares about high school results? And it's basically cheating if you're 19 winning against 14-18 year olds. 

[WrestlingRash]

how many wrestlers are actually making more than 20K a year in NIL deals? I would guess not very many at all, AA or not. 

[TNwrestling]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTF1PtLeD/