Kam's economic plan

[mspart]

Anyone have a take on her economic plan?

What items in the package point to her reinventing herself as a moderate?   Rather than list any items myself, I am interested in what you think.   There should be plenty for everyone to like or not like and explain why.   Perhaps it would be better to have a thread for each major item.   But I'm hoping we can have an interesting conversation in one thread. 

mspart

[Wrestleknownothing]

36 minutes ago, mspart said:

Anyone have a take on her economic plan?

What items in the package point to her reinventing herself as a moderate?   Rather than list any items myself, I am interested in what you think.   There should be plenty for everyone to like or not like and explain why.   Perhaps it would be better to have a thread for each major item.   But I'm hoping we can have an interesting conversation in one thread. 

mspart

It does not contain any plans for an insurrection.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

Anyone have a take on her economic plan?

What items in the package point to her reinventing herself as a moderate?   Rather than list any items myself, I am interested in what you think.   There should be plenty for everyone to like or not like and explain why.   Perhaps it would be better to have a thread for each major item.   But I'm hoping we can have an interesting conversation in one thread. 

mspart

I'm sure Wkn agrees, investing in lettuce farms is a wise decision.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It does not contain any plans for an insurrection.

When was the last insurrection in the USA? 

[mspart]

A tax on unrealized gains that only applies to those with $100 million in assets will become a tax on the middle class down the road.   The income tax, as originally passed, is unrecognizable today as it was to only apply to the rich.  All taxes, no matter what they are, never go away. 

Example:  WA state created a tax on capital gains.   Why is this an issue?   Because the WA state constitution forbids unequal taxation on property, and income is defined as property.   Therefore, there can be an income tax, but not a progressive income tax.   So the law was passed and signed and the SCOWA decided capital gains are not income.  That's how courts work.   All other states in the union and DC and the Feds count capital gains as income.   As a result, there is an initiative on the Nov Ballot to get rid of this.   The tax only applies to those with high income.   But the point is as soon as it was passed and upheld by the court, the legislature started talking about lowering the high income threshold.   They want everyone to pay this.   That's how taxes work.  

mspart

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

When was the last insurrection in the USA? 

The last attempted, and unsuccessful insurrection was put down on Jan. 6, 2021.

I am glad I could help. I get that it requires a stunningly short and selective memory to support Trump.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

When was the last insurrection in the USA? 

 

51 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The last attempted, and unsuccessful insurrection was put down on Jan. 6, 2021.

I am glad I could help. I get that it requires a stunningly short and selective memory to support Trump.

So either you don't know the answer or don't understand the question?  

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

 

So either you don't know the answer or don't understand the question?  

There is the third option you always fail to consider when trying to parse, split hairs, correct spelling, correct grammar etc. while poorly imitating Socrates, I find the distinction irrelevant.

[mspart]

 

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The last attempted, and unsuccessful insurrection was put down on Jan. 6, 2021.

I am glad I could help. I get that it requires a stunningly short and selective memory to support Trump.

Is that official, or just opinion?   I'll go out on a limb and say opinion.   I'll back that up. 

Not one person has been charged with insurrection.   That is a word the federal courts have not used to describe what happened.   That is a word the media and Ds use to describe what happened.   Unfortunately for them, DOJ has not prosecuted anyone for insurrection.   The distinction is not irrelevant.  When you try to say it was an insurrection, you are not accurate.   When you try to insinuate that it was officially considered an insurrection, you are spreading falsehoods with intent to mislead and mischaracterize the event.   There is no third option.   You have only emotion and opinion on your side when you insinuate it was an insurrection.   These are not based on the facts of the matter. 

mspart

[mspart]

Here is a list of her economic aims from what I can find.  I can't find an official release of her plan.   This is the best I have found.   Please comment any of these:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/08/16/kamala-harris-addresses-economy-in-speech-heres-what-to-know-about-her-policy-agenda/

Grocery Prices: The candidate would work in her first 100 days to help Congress pass a national ban on “price gouging” for food and groceries, as well as give the Federal Trade Commission and prosecutors authority to go after companies they determine price gouge, support small businesses in the industry, take a closer look at mergers between big grocery companies and “aggressively” investigate price-fixing in meat supply chains specifically.

Housing Costs: Harris wants to provide $25,000 in down payment assistance for first-time home buyers and is calling for the creation of three million new housing units within the next four years, proposing a tax credit for developers who build starter homes and investing $40 million in an innovation fund to tackle the housing crisis.

Rental Costs: Harris would also expand a tax credit for housing developers who build affordable housing rental units, and is calling on Congress to pass legislation that would stop predatory investors who buy up rental homes and collude with each other to raise rental prices.

Child Tax Credit: Harris proposed giving families a $6,000 tax credit for newborns in their first year of life, and restore a pandemic-era tax credit of $3,600 per child for middle and lower-class families.

Taxes: Harris also wants to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit for workers in lower-income jobs, which would cut taxes by up to $1,250, and has previously said she would continue President Joe Biden’s promise not to raise taxes on American households earning $400,000 or less annually, and does support raising taxes for high earners and corporations, according to The New York Times.

No Tax On Tips: Harris has separately endorsed a plan to get rid of taxes on tips for hospitality and service workers, echoing a proposal by former President Donald Trump—which has been criticized by some experts—though a campaign official told CNN tips would still be subject to payroll taxes, and would include an income limit and guardrails to prevent people like hedge fund managers from taking advantage of the policy.

Prescription Drug Prices: Harris proposed a $35 cap on insulin and capping out-of-pocket expenses on prescription drugs at $2,000 per year on Friday, also saying she would speed up Medicare negotiations on the price of prescription drugs—after the Biden administration announced a deal lowering costs on 10 medications—and crack down on anti-competitive practices in the pharmaceutical industry that cause higher prices.

Healthcare: The Harris campaign also announced her intention to work with states to cancel Americans’ medical debt, and she proposed expanding subsidies for Affordable Care Act plans that would save health insurance customers an average of $700 on their health insurance premiums.

Paid Leave: Harris has not released a specific paid leave proposal, but she has previously co-sponsored 12-week paid leave legislation, Politico notes, with Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., telling the outlet, “I absolutely believe that when they are in office, we will get a paid leave bill done finally.”

Minimum Wage: Harris called for raising the minimum wage in a Las Vegas speech earlier in August, but her campaign has not specified how high she believes it should be raised.

Fed Independence: Harris has vowed to maintain the Federal Reserve’s independence after Trump said he believed “the president should have at least [a] say” on the Federal Reserve’s decisions, with Harris telling reporters, “The Fed is an independent entity and as president I would never interfere in the decisions that the Fed makes.

 

mspart

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

33 minutes ago, mspart said:

 

Is that official, or just opinion?   I'll go out on a limb and say opinion.   I'll back that up. 

Not one person has been charged with insurrection.   That is a word the federal courts have not used to describe what happened.   That is a word the media and Ds use to describe what happened.   Unfortunately for them, DOJ has not prosecuted anyone for insurrection.   The distinction is not irrelevant.  When you try to say it was an insurrection, you are not accurate.   When you try to insinuate that it was officially considered an insurrection, you are spreading falsehoods with intent to mislead and mischaracterize the event.   There is no third option.   You have only emotion and opinion on your side when you insinuate it was an insurrection.   These are not based on the facts of the matter. 

mspart

Counterpoint.

Al Capone was only ever convicted of carrying a concealed weapon, contempt, and tax evasion.

It is called legal realism.

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, mspart said:

A tax on unrealized gains that only applies to those with $100 million in assets will become a tax on the middle class down the road.   The income tax, as originally passed, is unrecognizable today as it was to only apply to the rich.  All taxes, no matter what they are, never go away. 

Example:  WA state created a tax on capital gains.   Why is this an issue?   Because the WA state constitution forbids unequal taxation on property, and income is defined as property.   Therefore, there can be an income tax, but not a progressive income tax.   So the law was passed and signed and the SCOWA decided capital gains are not income.  That's how courts work.   All other states in the union and DC and the Feds count capital gains as income.   As a result, there is an initiative on the Nov Ballot to get rid of this.   The tax only applies to those with high income.   But the point is as soon as it was passed and upheld by the court, the legislature started talking about lowering the high income threshold.   They want everyone to pay this.   That's how taxes work.  

mspart

This.  I’ve been thinking of this for a few days. 

you hear Ds all day saying make the rich pay their fair share.   In 2021 the 1% paid 46% of all federal taxes.  What % is enough?   They never cite real income taxes when saying this.   Biden lies every time the says they pay 8.2% (I think…. I’m not looking it up…. CNN of all news outlets called him on it during the dnc).   That 8.2% is a d think tank estimate based on unrealized gains on stocks…. Not income tax   

my issue isn’t “what is enough”.  It’s where does the wasteful government stop.   If they make the “rich” pay x% more.   That x will be squandered just like in the past and they will be coming for the next “rich” in line.   Just like they are farking up social security and everything else.   

I worked for a startup years ago and had to pay taxes on unrealized gains.  It is a thing.  Look it up.  It’s called alternative minimum tax.  It was originally passed (maybe?) in the 1950s to make the ultra rich pay…. Now jamokes like me get hit with it.  

We fight over the wrong things.   The government is wasteful.   They lose $.  They lie and spend money appropriated for this…. On that.  They’re telling a narrative….. buying votes.  

the best line is around 1:46.   Although the whole vid is great.  It’s Dave Chappell.   The joke is fantastic…. And true to the mess that we exist in today.   Dave is not a Trump supporter.  
 

Here is an Illinois billionaire.   He is also a D governor who was in the mix to be the vp nominee…..  Who bragged he is a “real billionaire” at the dnc.  He removed toilets in his mansion to avoid taxes.    Don’t hear much about that at the dnc when asking the billionaires to pay.   Oprah was at the dnc lol on stage with ms Obama after she told you that sob story of how her parents wouldn’t be happy with people taking more than they need.   
 

# rules for thee but not for mee

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/federal-investigators-digging-deeper-into-pritzkers-331k-property-tax-break/

Edited August 24 by Caveira

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

 

Is that official, or just opinion?   I'll go out on a limb and say opinion.   I'll back that up. 

Not one person has been charged with insurrection.   That is a word the federal courts have not used to describe what happened.   That is a word the media and Ds use to describe what happened.   Unfortunately for them, DOJ has not prosecuted anyone for insurrection.   The distinction is not irrelevant.  When you try to say it was an insurrection, you are not accurate.   When you try to insinuate that it was officially considered an insurrection, you are spreading falsehoods with intent to mislead and mischaracterize the event.   There is no third option.   You have only emotion and opinion on your side when you insinuate it was an insurrection.   These are not based on the facts of the matter. 

mspart

Sedition make you feel better then??

Edited August 24 by WrestlingRasta

[ionel]

4 hours ago, mspart said:

A tax on unrealized gains that only applies to those with $100 million in assets will become a tax on the middle class down the road.   The income tax, as originally passed, is unrecognizable today as it was to only apply to the rich.  All taxes, no matter what they are, never go away. 

 

Also if they passed such there would suddenly be a lot fewer people with $100M in assets or at least a lot fewer in the US.  

[Offthemat]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

Also if they passed such there would suddenly be a lot fewer people with $100M in assets or at least a lot fewer in the US.  

I guess that could be a lot fewer people or a lot fewer assets. 

[Scouts Honor]

17 hours ago, mspart said:

Here is a list of her economic aims from what I can find.  I can't find an official release of her plan.   This is the best I have found.   Please comment any of these:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/08/16/kamala-harris-addresses-economy-in-speech-heres-what-to-know-about-her-policy-agenda/

Grocery Prices: The candidate would work in her first 100 days to help Congress pass a national ban on “price gouging” for food and groceries, as well as give the Federal Trade Commission and prosecutors authority to go after companies they determine price gouge, support small businesses in the industry, take a closer look at mergers between big grocery companies and “aggressively” investigate price-fixing in meat supply chains specifically.

Housing Costs: Harris wants to provide $25,000 in down payment assistance for first-time home buyers and is calling for the creation of three million new housing units within the next four years, proposing a tax credit for developers who build starter homes and investing $40 million in an innovation fund to tackle the housing crisis.

Rental Costs: Harris would also expand a tax credit for housing developers who build affordable housing rental units, and is calling on Congress to pass legislation that would stop predatory investors who buy up rental homes and collude with each other to raise rental prices.

Child Tax Credit: Harris proposed giving families a $6,000 tax credit for newborns in their first year of life, and restore a pandemic-era tax credit of $3,600 per child for middle and lower-class families.

Taxes: Harris also wants to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit for workers in lower-income jobs, which would cut taxes by up to $1,250, and has previously said she would continue President Joe Biden’s promise not to raise taxes on American households earning $400,000 or less annually, and does support raising taxes for high earners and corporations, according to The New York Times.

No Tax On Tips: Harris has separately endorsed a plan to get rid of taxes on tips for hospitality and service workers, echoing a proposal by former President Donald Trump—which has been criticized by some experts—though a campaign official told CNN tips would still be subject to payroll taxes, and would include an income limit and guardrails to prevent people like hedge fund managers from taking advantage of the policy.

Prescription Drug Prices: Harris proposed a $35 cap on insulin and capping out-of-pocket expenses on prescription drugs at $2,000 per year on Friday, also saying she would speed up Medicare negotiations on the price of prescription drugs—after the Biden administration announced a deal lowering costs on 10 medications—and crack down on anti-competitive practices in the pharmaceutical industry that cause higher prices.

Healthcare: The Harris campaign also announced her intention to work with states to cancel Americans’ medical debt, and she proposed expanding subsidies for Affordable Care Act plans that would save health insurance customers an average of $700 on their health insurance premiums.

Paid Leave: Harris has not released a specific paid leave proposal, but she has previously co-sponsored 12-week paid leave legislation, Politico notes, with Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., telling the outlet, “I absolutely believe that when they are in office, we will get a paid leave bill done finally.”

Minimum Wage: Harris called for raising the minimum wage in a Las Vegas speech earlier in August, but her campaign has not specified how high she believes it should be raised.

Fed Independence: Harris has vowed to maintain the Federal Reserve’s independence after Trump said he believed “the president should have at least [a] say” on the Federal Reserve’s decisions, with Harris telling reporters, “The Fed is an independent entity and as president I would never interfere in the decisions that the Fed makes.

 

mspart

 

she has been in office for 3.5 years..

wondering why these aren't already in action

[Scouts Honor]

17 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Counterpoint.

Al Capone was only ever convicted of carrying a concealed weapon, contempt, and tax evasion.

It is called legal realism.

so you are saying they have no EVIDENCE of insurrection? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

so you are saying they have no EVIDENCE of insurrection? 

I did not say that at all.

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not say that at all.

So you’re saying you have evidence, but it’s low T and won’t stand up to scrutiny?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

So you’re saying you have evidence, but it’s low T and won’t stand up to scrutiny?

I know "low T" is your new favorite thing to say, and it probably works great on the playground, but what I am saying is you are low IQ.

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I know "low T" is your new favorite thing to say, and it probably works great on the playground, but what I am saying is you are low IQ.

You’re almost convincing, but that’s irrelevant when any six year old can see through the nonsense you’re offering. 

[jross]

20 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Counterpoint.

Al Capone was only ever convicted of carrying a concealed weapon, contempt, and tax evasion.

It is called legal realism.

There were tens of thousands of peaceful protestors.  A fraction participated in a riot.  

Nobody has been charged with insurrection. The terms "insurrection" and "rebellion" aren't clearly defined in the law, both now and back in 1909. Only a few people who planned ahead were charged with seditious conspiracy. Overall, January 6 had a mix of chaotic and uncoordinated actions, with the majority of the tens of thousands participating peacefully.

J6 lacked the level of organization and planning typical of a conspiracy. The day’s chaos was driven by various people with different motives rather than a well-coordinated, unified effort to overthrow the government. It was more disorganized and less structured than what would be considered a conspiracy under the 1909 definition.

Labeling all Trump supporters, January 6 participants, and the event in general as dangerous insurrection/ists is unfair and simplistic. Most were there to protest, not to commit violence or overthrow the government.  People anywhere that are easily influenced by sensationalism and partisanship rather than objective analysis are dangerous.

I’m reviewing all the evidence and believe the election was rigged and fraudulent, with more proof expected later. If conservatives or others were planning an insurrection, it would involve a well-armed, large scale, and carefully planned effort to quickly take over the government.  And it would likely have initial success or at least extend for days/weeks.

Quote

 

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18 section:2383 edition:prelim) OR (granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section2383)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true

 

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not say that at all.

that's why they got capone with tax evasion... b/c they could produce no evidence of the other

[Scouts Honor]

the evidence of insurrection is as convincing as schumer and schiffs evidence of whatever they had on trump another time

[Scouts Honor]

is kamala still pitching price controls?

 

maybe they would work on college costs...