Harris Nomination. Coup or Not?

[red viking]

Was it a coup as Trump indicates?

[PortaJohn]

No option for it was a coup on Biden but not unconstitutional?  

[Bigbrog]

No it was not a coup.  Did it "technically" follow the rules...probably not.  Does it overall impact the legitimacy of her nomination...not really.  Is Trump and Vance using it as a political toy for their campaign...absolutely.  Have and will Harris/Walz do similar things...absolutely.

[Paul158]

It was a modified coup.

[red viking]

38 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

It was a modified coup.

How was it a coup at all? 

[mspart]

Getting rid of Biden was a coup per the #2 definition.   It was not unconstitutional as the Constitution does not define how candidates for the Presidency are nominated.   The different parties have those rules.   Were the nomination rules of the D party broken by the change in the nomination process?   Yes.   Biden was the clear winner of the Primaries yet was pushed out because of fear he would lose and cause other D candidates to lose.   He has said so himself.  

Harris has not even given a press conference since at least 3 weeks ago.   She cannot logically defend what has happened and will not do any interviews or press conferences.  

The D party  runs primaries in all of the states and the overall winner of those primaries is the nominee.   That is Biden by the voice of the people.   Harris has been nominated, not by the voice of the people, but of the party delegates and leaders.   In effect, the D party has produced an undemocratically chosen candidate if they go with anyone but Biden.    Democracy isn't safe unless the Ds win is a lie.   Democracy is already not safe because of the Ds. 

Examples:

1.   Trying to keep Trump off of the ballot and not allowing the voters the right to vote (CO and ME).

2.  Trying to keep RFK Jr off the state ballots (happening here in WA as well as other states)

3.  Ds kicking the choice of the people off the ticket (Biden) and giving that mantle to Harris (not one person voted for her to be nominated).   The voice of the people means nothing.  

4.  As another example, a couple of liberal orgs sued the WA sec of state for not counting signatures properly for 4 citizen initiatives.   The initiatives were legally processed.   This was a case of trying to keep them from being voted on by the people.   Interestingly, these orgs and their leaders all are donors to the current WA AG and current Governor candidate Bob Ferguson.   Ferguson, nor anyone else, told the organizers of this effort.  Ferguson was obligated to argue for the initiatives but was personally opposed to them AND has  accepted money from those that brought the lawsuit.   Rather than recuse himself, he kept it under wraps.   A reporter found out just before the WA Supreme Court ruled unanimously against the plaintiffs.   The reporter asked for comment from the initiative backer.   He had no comment as this was the first he had heard of it.   This happened last Friday.   This was an attempted coup of the initiatives on the sly and not allowing the main org that moved them forward to have a say in the defense.   This was an attempt at voter suppression.   This was not saving democracy for all of us, but attempting to shut down dissent before the Initiatives could be voted on by the people. 

https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2024/08/10/initiatives-240810/

Democracy certainly is at stake with those in power exercising such control over the processes.   Democracy is certainly at stake when those in power deny due process and make obvious censorship efforts.   That ladies and gentlemen is what the D party  has provided. 

What happened to Biden was a coup per the second definition. 

mspart

 

 

[red viking]

So if Biden decides to remove himself from the race because people are telling him that he cannot win, and he believes what he's told, that violates democracy? You do recall that Biden withdrew voluntarily, right? 

Is how a party selects its nominee required to be "democratic?"

 

[mspart]

When their rules say it is democratic, it should be democratic.  

Given the circumstances i don't know how they would do that.  All I know is that if Kamala had been on the primary ballot she would not have been second or third.   But in fact, Biden was essentially the only one allowed on primary ballots.   And he received the votes.   Then he did not voluntarily leave, he was coerced to leave the race.   He said he would never leave unless God himself came down and told him.   That was just before he gave it up.   He was coerced and essentially told we can do this the easy way or the hard way.   He chose the easy way because he was going to have to go one way or the other.   That is where democracy in the D party died in this case.   They forced the guy out that got all the primary votes for someone who got zero primary votes.   There was no other voting allowed.   Granted the delegates have fallen in line but they are not the people who voted.  What would it look like if Biden didn't run and it was a wide open primary?   That would have been democratic. 

Now you can't say there weren't signs.   Biden has deteriorated significantly in the last 2 years.   Yet all anyone without a brain could say was he is the best he's ever been, he runs circles around his staff etc etc.   And Kamala was a huge liability and discussions were had to drop her.    Then he quits and he is amazing and she is the saviour of the party and the right person for the job.   Talk about two faced - and that's just the media.

mspart

[Offthemat]

They haven’t had their convention yet.  It only took 2 or 3 days to change from Biden to Kamela. 

[headshuck]

Could Biden change his mind?

[mspart]

I suppose he could but then his delegates have already pledged to Kamala.   They would have to take all of the pre ballots they threw away for Biden and try to recover them and cancel the printing of the pre ballots for Kamala.  

mspart

 

[Offthemat]

4 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Could Biden change his mind?

I don’t think there’re any rules.

[mspart]

Well, there aren't any anymore, that's for sure.   Having a Primary is a joke to the Ds.   Yeah, well we disagree so we'll put in whoever we want.   That is essentially what they are telegraphing the next 4 years will be if they win. 

mspart

[Offthemat]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

Well, there aren't any anymore, that's for sure.   Having a Primary is a joke to the Ds.   Yeah, well we disagree so we'll put in whoever we want.   That is essentially what they are telegraphing the next 4 years will be if they win. 

mspart

They manipulated the 2016 and 2020 primaries as well. 

[billyhoyle]

Related question-would it be too late for the Republicans to now switch in Desantis or Haley in for Trump? I'm pretty sure they would win if they did this.  Kind of like playing an Uno reverse card. 

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Related question-would it be too late for the Republicans to now switch in Desantis or Haley in for Trump? I'm pretty sure they would win if they did this.  Kind of like playing an Uno reverse card. 

I think you miscalculate what the vote would be if Trump were removed from the ballot for anything short of medical disability. 

[billyhoyle]

8 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I think you miscalculate what the vote would be if Trump were removed from the ballot for anything short of medical disability. 

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure Desantis and Haley would both beat Kamala by a wide margin because most of the former republicans who just don't like Trump would move back in large numbers. 

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, billyhoyle said:

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure Desantis and Haley would both beat Kamala by a wide margin because most of the former republicans who just don't like Trump would move back in large numbers. 

Trump draws more voters that will only vote for him.  If you put Desantis or Haley in you’ll get the McCain/Romney results. 

[billyhoyle]

7 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Trump draws more voters that will only vote for him.  If you put Desantis or Haley in you’ll get the McCain/Romney results. 

Trump drives just as much turnout for Harris as he does for Republicans.  If he were off the ballot, a lot of Democrats wouldn't turn out either. I think Desantis and Haley are both more popular than Mccain/Romney. Also, it's not a fair comparison with Obama as the Democratic nominee.  Obama was very popular among democrats in a way that Harris/Biden/Hillary Clinton never were.  I think Desantis or Haley vs Harris would look like Bush vs Kerry. Obviously Harris would win some states, but not PA, OH, or Michigan. 

 

I think if Trump does this, he will look brilliant for one upping Biden and delivering a win to Republicans, the prosecutions against him would stop, and he could still be highly influential behind the scenes and publicly through his endorsements. 

Edited August 15 by billyhoyle

[Offthemat]

I doubt that my take will change many minds, but a few pollsters have said that it is very difficult to get polls on Trump right.  He outperformed his polling in both elections.  I simply don’t believe the majority of voters are any more fooled by the magic transformation of Kamela the dunce to Kamela the wonderful than I am   It’s as though they’ve adopted the James Carville strategy of “It’s the economy, stupid.” to “Don’t say anything, stupid.”  My only concern is that if they continue to Election Day with her it means they are confident in their cheating programs. 

[mspart]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

Trump drives just as much turnout for Harris as he does for Republicans.  If he were off the ballot, a lot of Democrats wouldn't turn out either. I think Desantis and Haley are both more popular than Mccain/Romney. Also, it's not a fair comparison with Obama as the Democratic nominee.  Obama was very popular among democrats in a way that Harris/Biden/Hillary Clinton never were.  I think Desantis or Haley vs Harris would look like Bush vs Kerry. Obviously Harris would win some states, but not PA, OH, or Michigan. 

 

I think if Trump does this, he will look brilliant for one upping Biden and delivering a win to Republicans, the prosecutions against him would stop, and he could still be highly influential behind the scenes and publicly through his endorsements. 

I would much rather have DeSantis than Trump.   That's for sure.   I would much rather have Trump than Kamala.   That's for sure. 

aspart

[Offthemat]

31 minutes ago, mspart said:

I would much rather have DeSantis than Trump.   That's for sure.   I would much rather have Trump than Kamala.   That's for sure. 

aspart

Desantis didn’t have the instinct to not challenge Trump, which questions his perspicacity. 

[Lipdrag]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

which questions his perspicacity. 

Perspicacious use of perspicacity is always a delight to behold.  Thank you.

[Offthemat]

4 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

Perspicacious use of perspicacity is always a delight to behold.  Thank you.

It’s one of those things that you know when you see it, use if you have it, and explain if you have to.  

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

I would much rather have DeSantis than Trump.   That's for sure.   I would much rather have Trump than Kamala.   That's for sure. 

aspart

In case you didn't already know, you're a piece of cheese living among rats here.

Those folks that continually encourage you, don't actually agree with you. You are hanging with a sketchy crowd.