Wrestleknownothing Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) The talk about Boise State in the UVU thread got me thinking about the unseeded era* wrestlers who said to hell with the seeds, I got this. Who were the unseeded wrestlers to go undefeated at the NCAA Tournament? I am glad you asked. There were nine of these titans of optimism and over-achievement, starting with Oklahoma's David McGuire in 1967 and ending with Oklahoma State's Mark Branch in 1994. These wrestlers were all participating in 8 and 12 seed tournaments. The 16 seed era was very short, lasting only five years, and did not produce any unseeded champions. The "We Don't Need No Stinkin' Badges" (or Seeds) Banditos: But what of the teams? Which teams consistently produced from the unseeded portion of the bracket? We can answer the question at least two ways. Based on sheer volume, Oklahoma put a whopping 30 wrestlers on the podium without the benefit of a seed. Iowa State, Iowa and Oklahoma State round out our top four. But they are also four of the programs with the most wrestlers in the tournament (sorry PSU fans, but they just failed at putting US on the podium. I blame Cael Sanderson in spite of the obvious objection). The Seeds Don't Matter Schools: The other (better?) way to look at this is based on rate. How often did a school/coach get their guys over the psychological hump of being told you do not deserve a seed? The Han Solo "Never Tell Me The Odds" Schools: How fitting that a faith-based school sits atop the list. Maybe I should rename it The George Michael "You Gotta Have Faith" Schools? * I am defining the unseeded era as 1967 - 2018. In 1967 we had 8 seeded wrestlers for the first time and in 2018 we had unseeded wrestlers for the last time. Edited August 1 by Wrestleknownothing 5 1 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3 for LU Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) ^^^^ ... strong, indeed. (Tanxs, to WKN's vast computational and info gathering skills. He's the ayatollah of info-nollah. ) D3 Edited August 1 by D3 for LU 1 Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevator Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I got to work out with Matt Reiss - might have more than than normal share of neanderthal in that gene pool. Was not all that suprised when he made a deep run - but not saying it was not a surprise that he won it. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11986 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) The Mighty Dukes of JMU had 2 All-Americans total before the program dropped. Both were unseeded. Brian Kurlander finished 8th in '87 (beat the 8 seed and 9 seed to make quarters then beat 10 seed in blood round), Mike Coyle placed 8th in 2000 (little easier road by seed, beat 6 and 12 on the backside on way to AA). Edited August 1 by 11986 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatDane67 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 What is the lowest seed to win since they started seeding everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 This data is excellent as always. Regarding the question, "How often did a school/coach help their athletes overcome the psychological hurdle of being told they do not deserve a seed?", a more effective way to answer might be by showing the rate of US All-Americans (AA) among total unseeded NCAA qualifiers rather than the rate of US AA among total AA. Given an "assumed" higher rate of Iowa/ISU/OSU NCAA qualifiers being seeded compared to BYU, it stands to reason that BYU wrestlers might have had more opportunities to achieve unseeded All-American status. Do you have the NCAA qualifier (seeded, not seeded) data for that analysis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, jross said: This data is excellent as always. Regarding the question, "How often did a school/coach help their athletes overcome the psychological hurdle of being told they do not deserve a seed?", a more effective way to answer might be by showing the rate of US All-Americans (AA) among total unseeded NCAA qualifiers rather than the rate of US AA among total AA. Given an "assumed" higher rate of Iowa/ISU/OSU NCAA qualifiers being seeded compared to BYU, it stands to reason that BYU wrestlers might have had more opportunities to achieve unseeded All-American status. Do you have the NCAA qualifier (seeded, not seeded) data for that analysis? I am pretty sure I can back into it, but away from my computer for the weekend. I will try to answer both questions when I get back. Maybe tomorrow evening, or Monday. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, GreatDane67 said: What is the lowest seed to win since they started seeding everyone? 1) Cody Brewer seeded at 13 Edited August 3 by PortaJohn 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Unseeded. Mark Branch Seeded Cody Brewer slotted in at 13 Uhh- Branch was before- not since. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, gimpeltf said: Uhh- Branch was before- not since. yeah. i misread the question. you posted before my edit. I was going to add in (12) Jarrod King and (11) Myles Martin 1 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 @gimpeltf would Carter Starocci technically be the correct answer? '19 was the change to 33 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11986 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 17 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: 1) Cody Brewer seeded at 13 They didn’t seed everyone the year Cody won. I think the lowest # seed to win since they seeded 33 is 8. Mekhi Lewis, Shane Griffith, and Figueroa this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11986 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: @gimpeltf would Carter Starocci technically be the correct answer? '19 was the change to 33 Doh forgot Starocci. I think that’s the correct answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, 11986 said: Doh forgot Starocci. I think that’s the correct answer. Had a brain scramble myself. Mekhi wouldn't qualify for that specific question I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Had a brain scramble myself. Mekhi wouldn't qualify for that specific question @11986 never mind. Mekhi won in '19. He qualifies. 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 The 6 lowest seeds to win in the 33 seed era (2019 - 2024): Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: The 6 lowest seeds to win in the 33 seed era (2019 - 2024): Yeah but we know that 9 seed wasn't real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 On 8/3/2024 at 3:47 PM, jross said: This data is excellent as always. Regarding the question, "How often did a school/coach help their athletes overcome the psychological hurdle of being told they do not deserve a seed?", a more effective way to answer might be by showing the rate of US All-Americans (AA) among total unseeded NCAA qualifiers rather than the rate of US AA among total AA. Given an "assumed" higher rate of Iowa/ISU/OSU NCAA qualifiers being seeded compared to BYU, it stands to reason that BYU wrestlers might have had more opportunities to achieve unseeded All-American status. Do you have the NCAA qualifier (seeded, not seeded) data for that analysis? unfortunately I do not have the data to answer this question. But, the good news is @cowcards does. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowcards Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 7 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: unfortunately I do not have the data to answer this question. But, the good news is @cowcards does. Hope this is what you're looking for. I had to put it in a google sheet since the table was too big to past here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x77sZJUx5rsgzDikS-M6DoUWhJ8OV6dig7LSZ-26-rM/edit?usp=sharing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 6 hours ago, cowcards said: Hope this is what you're looking for. I had to put it in a google sheet since the table was too big to past here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x77sZJUx5rsgzDikS-M6DoUWhJ8OV6dig7LSZ-26-rM/edit?usp=sharing There you go. I always said Gary Collins was a better coach than Cael Sanderson. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smsu150 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Cody Brewer was seeded, but 13th. Not sure what year they started seeding more than 12. Brewer had only one loss and was a returning AA, but still seeded 13th. He went on to dominate the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 5 hours ago, Smsu150 said: Cody Brewer was seeded, but 13th. Not sure what year they started seeding more than 12. Brewer had only one loss and was a returning AA, but still seeded 13th. He went on to dominate the weight. There were 12 seeds from 1979 until 2013. There were 16 seeds for only five seasons from 2014 until 2018. From 2014 to 2018 Cody Brewer was, indeed, the highest seed to win followed by Myles Martin as an 11 seed. There were no other double digit seeds to win in the 16 seed era (or in the 33 seed era). Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 40 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: There were 12 seeds from 1979 until 2013. There were 16 seeds for only five seasons from 2014 until 2018. From 2014 to 2018 Cody Brewer was, indeed, the highest seed to win followed by Myles Martin as an 11 seed. There were no other double digit seeds to win in the 16 seed era (or in the 33 seed era). Think about all the bad draws in the 20s and 30s, folks on social media must've gone nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Slack Wasatch via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 197
Kasey Curtis North Sanpete via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 133
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