Proposed Sport Roster Limits- starting 2025-26 Season

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Camel Wrestling Fan said:

Pro teams have taxi squads to practice on and occasionally pull up a player due to injury or what not. Colleges uses that 50-85 as a taxi squad really. Why do they now need 105? Idk. Back in the big time schools would have 125. Oklahoma would bring 8 out of the top 10 RBs in the country, let them fight for the position AND keep the other guys off of their rivals team!

Its what Iowa & OSU were doing in wrestling.  Thus why NCAA put scholarship and roster limits in place.  But now since NCAA would bother enforcing their own rules they are going backward on everything.  May ruin all sports, certainly a lot of sports programs. 

[MNRodent]

I wonder if college teams will use their RTCs as sort of a practice squad, where high level walk-ons can work out and potentially join the 30-man roster in the future.

 

[BigRedFan]

16 hours ago, Idaho said:

Good question....I hadn't thought about that. I wonder how they will respond to this. Maybe some of our Ivy team supporters can chime in. 

I have no inside knowledge, but Cornell currently shows 43 members on their 2024-25 roster (12 freshmen, 11 sophs, 9 juniors, 11 seniors).  A quick scan shows Lehigh (yes, I know it is not an Ivy) with 42.  Penn with 29.

A number of the freshmen are not names I recognize as having been highly recruited.

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, TNwrestling said:

So football's rosters will now cap at 105 but wrestling rosters cap at 30? In what realm does an nfl team cap their roster at 53 but college needs double that?

11 offense, 11 defense, 11 special teams (it’s actually more than 11 because you have punt, kick, punt return, kick blocking, kick return, but let’s just say 11). So 33 starters in football *3 = 99.

10 starters in wrestling * 3= 30.

Then factor in that there are significantly more substitutions and injuries in football, and that football is a revenue sport, it makes sense that they would have a that number be the cap. 
 

With that said, it does screw over non revenue sports. 

Edited July 29 by billyhoyle

[FD1W]

One thing I think everyone is overlooking in this:

Just because the roster cap is 30, does not mean that the school will allow that to be the cap. Schools can set roster caps lower than 30 if they want.

Same for scholarships. Very few will be able to fund 30 full scholarships, bu t schools can also dictate how many scholarships they allow. Maybe they keep it at 9.9 or 10, but they could also lower it to 7 to accomodate the new 20 extra needed for football

 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

On 7/28/2024 at 3:04 PM, Dark Energy said:

Thanks for this.  It is making me think of the ivies.  Wonder how they are thinking about this.

The settlement, if approved, is only binding on Power 5 schools. So the Ivies, EIWA, Socon, MAC could opt out of it and keep their roster sizes above 30 and scholarships at 9.9. But then they could not pay players. If they want to pay, then they have to abide by all the elements of the settlement. 

[Dark Energy]

5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The settlement, if approved, is only binding on Power 5 schools. So the Ivies, EIWA, Socon, MAC could opt out of it and keep their roster sizes above 30 and scholarships at 9.9. But then they could not pay players. If they want to pay, then they have to abide by all the elements of the settlement. 

Ahhh, interesting … and a seemingly tough choice.  To be clear, they could avoid paying players and still compete at NCAA championships?

Obviously at a distinct disadvantage recruiting wise.  I wonder if schools that do this would effectively drop from D1.  Perhaps have own championship.  Eh, probably not.  Wow - really curious how this will unfurl.  

 

[Santos]

In my opinion several colleges will opt out. Will there be enough teams to have a championship? What conferences can afford to opt in? Big Ten, Big 12, ACC. I think you need 33 teams for a national Championship.

There couldl be enough teams that opt out and have their own D1 AA Championships.  I also think some colleges will drop sports including football. Since covid kids have found they can get their degrees online saving money. Enrollment is down and some schools have even closed dorms.

 

[Idaho]

8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The settlement, if approved, is only binding on Power 5 schools. So the Ivies, EIWA, Socon, MAC could opt out of it and keep their roster sizes above 30 and scholarships at 9.9. But then they could not pay players. If they want to pay, then they have to abide by all the elements of the settlement. 

Good point - Flo did an article outlining this along with roster sizes...

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/12753476-unlimited-scholarships-roster-caps-more-in-ncaa-vs-house-settlement

[Idaho]

Power 5 Teams over 30 last year...

School	2023-24 Roster	Conference
Oregon State	43	Pac 12
Iowa State	41	Big 12
Iowa	40	Big 10
Michigan State	39	Big 10
Missouri	38	SEC/Big 12
Oklahoma State	38	Big 12
Arizona State	37	Big 12
Michigan	37	Big 10
Penn State	37	Big 10
West Virginia	37	Big 12
Nebraska	35	Big 10
Oklahoma	35	SEC/Big 12
Ohio State	34	Big 10
Virginia Tech	34	ACC
Virginia	33	ACC
Indiana	32	Big 10
Maryland	32	Big 10
North Carolina	32	ACC
Pittsburgh	32	ACC
NC State	31	ACC
Purdue	31	Big 10

 

So all in all, based on last years rosters, this will affect 118 wrestlers total. There are only  7 teams at 30 or below. I can tell you that, some of those kids have already found homes that have not been reported. 

 

Edited July 30 by Idaho

[Idaho]

List of non-power 5 schools - they can opt in to the revenue sharing but then have to offer the 30 scholarships and cap their roster size to 30

School	2023-24 Roster	Conference
Army	53	EIWA
Navy	49	EIWA
Sacred Heart	49	EIWA
Lehigh	45	EIWA
Kent State	44	MAC
Bellarmine	43	SOCON
Clarion	40	MAC
Cornell	38	Ivy League
Penn	38	Ivy League
Air Force	37	Big 12
Northern Illinois	37	MAC
Rider	37	MAC
VMI	37	SOCON
Columbia	36	Ivy League
Northern Colorado	36	Big 12
Ohio	36	MAC
South Dakota State	36	Big 12
Appalachian State	35	SOCON
Cleveland State	35	MAC
Drexel	35	EIWA
California Baptist	34	Big 12
Lock Haven	34	MAC
North Dakota State	34	Big 12
Harvard	33	Ivy League
Little Rock	33	Pac 12
Long Island	33	EIWA
Wyoming	33	Big 12
Binghamton	32	EIWA
Bucknell	32	EIWA
Buffalo	32	MAC
Franklin & Marshall	32	EIWA
Gardner-Webb	32	SOCON
George Mason	32	MAC
Cal Poly	31	Pac 12
Edinboro	31	MAC
Northern Iowa	31	Big 12
Chattanooga	30	SOCON
CSU Bakersfield	30	Pac 12
SIUE	30	MAC
Campbell	29	SOCON
Central Michigan	29	MAC
Princeton	29	Ivy League
The Citadel	29	SOCON
Davidson	28	SOCON
Hofstra	28	EIWA
Mercyhurst	28
Morgan State	28
American	27	EIWA
Utah Valley	26	Big 12
Bloomsburg	23	MAC
Brown	23	Ivy League
Presbyterian	21	SOCON

[No BS Fan]

Academy students are already on full scholarships and (to my knowledge) are not allowed to be paid or receive NIL. They do however get a monthly salary, set by Congress, that increases after each year. I don't see how they would be able to "opt in" to profit sharing. 

[cowcards]

Since I haven't seen the actual regulation written and all the nuances and the issues with opt-in vs. opt-out, which could change my opinion, but this is where I'm currently at with the limited info.   

If Borelli is correct and only those that opt into the revenue sharing can participate in NCAA championships, you'll see another dramatic shift in college athletics. I think most schools will opt-in, power 5 or not, because of football and basketball. That's what drives the money for the departments and if they aren't in the NCAA championship then they aren't making money. Just because they opt-in, doesn't mean they have to pay wresters, and I doubt most will. I think you'll see most schools pay football/basketball and the women to balance out Title 9. 

Schools that don't opt-in will create their own championship and pursue their own media deals and probably break away from the NCAA because the NCAA would be useless to them. Or they will just cut to the minimum number of sports and opt-in. 

Other notes I saw asked:
NCAA schools need the larger limits on football rosters because they can't sign anyone whenever they need. They are stuck with the roster they start with, unlike the NFL. In reality, the NFL roster is unlimited because you can replace any one at any time. Colleges also tend to have more injuries (my observations) and other issues that can force kids out. In the NFL you tend to show up no matter what every time because you're getting paid. 

For people over the 30 roster limit, that is just NCAA roster. There is nothing that says they can't have a club team or RTC that has the same coaches as the NCAA team. I would imagine this could be a path some schools would take. The guys that aren't on the roster though wouldn't be able to get the same benefits as those on the roster (Travel, food, scholarship, practice time, etc.) and they wouldn't be able to compete that year no matter what. This could be a spot where redshirts are used. Don't roster them but still have around. 

Exemptions will be made for the Academies and maybe the Ivies due to their well-established rules already.

Since the opt-in is specific to P5, we don't have a clue what it means for everyone else yet and I'm they they don't either.

Bottom-line: The NCAA has so much to figure out in this next year or so and it could change real quick. Better just hang on and see how it shakes out. None of us really know. 

[Idaho]

4 minutes ago, cowcards said:

There is nothing that says they can't have a club team or RTC that has the same coaches as the NCAA team

I am 99;9% sure that coaches do not want to set up a completely different club team for practices that are your 31-40 guys on the depth chart. The RTC is probably where guys will "hide" for a year since coaches are already managing that program. I agree that there will be a lot to work out with this settlement. At what length in terms of  expense, time and energy are D1 coaches going to go for there #31- #40 guys?  Teams were already getting their rosters down this spring and summer because of that very reason. 

[juniorvarsity]

Iowa built this giant wrestling room for 30 athletes. Probably could have saved some money if they knew this ahead of time.

[flyingcement]

3 hours ago, Idaho said:

List of non-power 5 schools - they can opt in to the revenue sharing but then have to offer the 30 scholarships and cap their roster size to 30

School	2023-24 Roster	Conference
Army	53	EIWA
Navy	49	EIWA
Sacred Heart	49	EIWA
Lehigh	45	EIWA
Kent State	44	MAC
Bellarmine	43	SOCON
Clarion	40	MAC
Cornell	38	Ivy League
Penn	38	Ivy League
Air Force	37	Big 12
Northern Illinois	37	MAC
Rider	37	MAC
VMI	37	SOCON
Columbia	36	Ivy League
Northern Colorado	36	Big 12
Ohio	36	MAC
South Dakota State	36	Big 12
Appalachian State	35	SOCON
Cleveland State	35	MAC
Drexel	35	EIWA
California Baptist	34	Big 12
Lock Haven	34	MAC
North Dakota State	34	Big 12
Harvard	33	Ivy League
Little Rock	33	Pac 12
Long Island	33	EIWA
Wyoming	33	Big 12
Binghamton	32	EIWA
Bucknell	32	EIWA
Buffalo	32	MAC
Franklin & Marshall	32	EIWA
Gardner-Webb	32	SOCON
George Mason	32	MAC
Cal Poly	31	Pac 12
Edinboro	31	MAC
Northern Iowa	31	Big 12
Chattanooga	30	SOCON
CSU Bakersfield	30	Pac 12
SIUE	30	MAC
Campbell	29	SOCON
Central Michigan	29	MAC
Princeton	29	Ivy League
The Citadel	29	SOCON
Davidson	28	SOCON
Hofstra	28	EIWA
Mercyhurst	28
Morgan State	28
American	27	EIWA
Utah Valley	26	Big 12
Bloomsburg	23	MAC
Brown	23	Ivy League
Presbyterian	21	SOCON

I can't help but think as I look at this list about the awkwardness of some of these situations where its going to be literally one person that doesn't get to make the roster and the other 30 do (like in Northern Iowa's case)

[Idaho]

1 minute ago, flyingcement said:

I can't help but think as I look at this list about the awkwardness of some of these situations where its going to be literally one person that doesn't get to make the roster and the other 30 do (like in Northern Iowa's case)

This is based on last years roster,  but yeah, if you are the last guy.  I think we are going to see a lot of names pop up on rosters of new/newer programs. 

[MNRodent]

Most schools shouldn't have to cut current team members because some will graduate and/or quit or transfer in 24-25, before this goes into effect in 25-26.  They will just have to more closely watch how many they bring in next recruiting class.

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, MNRodent said:

Most schools shouldn't have to cut current team members because some will graduate and/or quit or transfer in 24-25, before this goes into effect in 25-26.  They will just have to more closely watch how many they bring in next recruiting class.

Only if you don't want to replace the higher level kids that graduate.

[Idaho]

3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Only if you don't want to replace the higher level kids that graduate.

Yep... you can be certain there will be tough conversations with kids that will not be back on the team in place of higher level kids. In fact...some have and are taking place. 

[flyingcement]

22 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yep... you can be certain there will be tough conversations with kids that will not be back on the team in place of higher level kids. In fact...some have and are taking place. 

I just noticed North Dakota State did a clean wipe of their roster of anyone who had previously entered the transfer portal.  They are left with only a handful of guys that were on the team last year, combined with a large group of red shirt freshman, and bunch of incoming transfers

 

Weight	Name	Class	Status	Count
125	#163 Witt, Ezekiel St	FR	True Freshman	1
125	#163 Tanimoto, Kody	FR	Redshirt	2
125	#163 O'Brien, Sean	FR	Redshirt	3
133	#42 Burwick, Kyle St	SR	Incoming Transfer	4
133	#188 Olson, Michael	FR	Redshirt	5
141	#70 Drexler, Gavin St	SO	Returning Wrestler	6
141	#173 Moore, Peyton	SO	Incoming Transfer	7
149	#39 Petersen, Maxwell St	SO	Returning Wrestler	8
149	#25 March, Kellyn	SR	Returning Wrestler	9
149	#168 Radenz, Clay	JR	Returning Wrestler	10
157	#58 Greenley, Boeden St	RSFR	Returning Wrestler	11
157	#127 Schumm, Gabriel	JR	Returning Wrestler	12
165	#60 Howes, Brendan St	SO	Returning Wrestler	13
165	#192 Hutchings, Dante	FR	Redshirt	14
165	#269 Barker, Luke	RSFR	Returning Wrestler	15
174	#90 Wasley, Devin St	SO	Incoming Transfer	16
174	#193 Magayna, Max	FR	Redshirt	17
174	#193 Secoy, Tyler	FR	Redshirt	18
184	#84 Cherne, Adam St	SO	Returning Wrestler	19
184	#83 Brenot, Aidan	RSFR	Returning Wrestler	20
184	#159 McMonagle, Andrew	FR	Redshirt	21
184	#159 Glover, Tayshaun	FR	Redshirt	22
184	#159 Schneck, Barrett	FR	Redshirt	23
197	#123 Baker, Michael St	SR	Incoming Transfer	24
197	#154 Whitright, Bradley	JR	Incoming Transfer	25
197	#154 Hight, Aiden	FR	Redshirt	26
285	#81 Blackburn-Forst, Andrew St	SO	Incoming Transfer	27
285	#168 Huff, Schey	FR	Redshirt	28
285	#168 Jones, Shilo	FR	Redshirt	29

Edited July 31 by flyingcement

[flyingcement]

Category	Roster	Starters
True Freshman	1	1
Redshirt Freshman	12	0
Returning Wrestler	10	5
Incoming Transfer	6	4

[Wrestleknownothing]

Wrestlers can expect to get about $50 on average, or less, from the $2.576 billion settlement.

[MPhillips]

[Pinnacle]

A lot of $$$ going to athletes. For the experts, seems that money is coming partly from boosters thru NIL, partly from revenue generated i.e. TV contracts and stadium revenue, but perhaps also partly from higher tuitions? Is the general student population at least partly financing these payments?