Trump catches himself saying the quiet part out loud

[WrestlingRasta]

My quality of life is better now than it was with Trump, even with some serious hardships thrown my way the last couple of years.   And when Trump was Pres, my quality of life was slightly better than under Obama.  And under Obama, a little better than with Bush.   

Makes me wonder what the biggest factor, by a not even comparable margin, is the biggest factor in my quality of life......me, or the President.

[Paul158]

21 minutes ago, jross said:

The quality of life was significantly better under Trump for myself and everyone I know compared to Biden, and the difference isn't close. So, even if Trump meant what he said in jest, I will vote for him because presidential policy outcomes matter more than tact.

As if these 'gotchas' matter... 

I do not relate to these people 

------------

Policy Outcomes Over Personality:

You have two choices of mechanics to get your car fixed. Who do you choose?

• Mechanic 1: Rude but fixes the car perfectly every time.
• Mechanic 2: Well-mannered but makes mistakes and doesn't always fix the problem.

You have two choices of surgeons. Who do you choose?

• Surgeon 1: Brash bedside manner with good skill and a high success rate in the procedure you need.
• Surgeon 2: Friendly and empathetic bedside manner, with a much lower success rate for the procedure you need.

I favor Trump and pick Mechanic 1 and Surgeon 1 because I prioritize effective outcomes over personal demeanor for those tasks.

To be fair... Personality Over Outcomes:

In a different context, consider you have two choices of teachers. Who do you choose for your child?

• Teacher 1: Great knowledge and curriculum but is harsh.
• Teacher 2: Decent understanding and curriculum but is kind and encouraging.

I will select Teacher 2, prioritizing my child's emotional well-being and learning environment over the teacher's superior knowledge.  The context is different and matters.  

Why do people engage in self-harm by holding onto the belief that the last four years were superior to the preceding four years, and advocating for four more years of discomfort?

Would you consider running for President? You would be a good one.

[uncle bernard]

29 minutes ago, jross said:

The quality of life was significantly better under Trump for myself and everyone I know compared to Biden, and the difference isn't close. So, even if Trump meant what he said in jest, I will vote for him because presidential policy outcomes matter more than tact.

As if these 'gotchas' matter... 

I do not relate to these people 

------------

Policy Outcomes Over Personality:

You have two choices of mechanics to get your car fixed. Who do you choose?

• Mechanic 1: Rude but fixes the car perfectly every time.
• Mechanic 2: Well-mannered but makes mistakes and doesn't always fix the problem.

You have two choices of surgeons. Who do you choose?

• Surgeon 1: Brash bedside manner with good skill and a high success rate in the procedure you need.
• Surgeon 2: Friendly and empathetic bedside manner, with a much lower success rate for the procedure you need.

I favor Trump and pick Mechanic 1 and Surgeon 1 because I prioritize effective outcomes over personal demeanor for those tasks.

To be fair... Personality Over Outcomes:

In a different context, consider you have two choices of teachers. Who do you choose for your child?

• Teacher 1: Great knowledge and curriculum but is harsh.
• Teacher 2: Decent understanding and curriculum but is kind and encouraging.

I will select Teacher 2, prioritizing my child's emotional well-being and learning environment over the teacher's superior knowledge.  The context is different and matters.  

Why do people engage in self-harm by holding onto the belief that the last four years were superior to the preceding four years, and advocating for four more years of discomfort?

Just curious, what specific parts of your life were better under Trump?

The obvious one for me is prices. Everything is expensive now, though it's (very) slowly receding. However, a portion of that inflation was caused by stuff Trump did that carried over to Biden, so it's hard to disentangle the blame.

Plus, many of the economists who predicted the inflation issue under Biden think Trump's platform will actually exacerbate the issue. The combination of extreme tariffs - increases the price of imports which in turn allows domestic sellers to raise prices - and mass deportation - contraction of the labor pool in key industries which will lead to companies needing to offer higher wages to fill shortages and thus lead to more price increases. 

That doesn't even include his plan to extend his 2017 tax cuts which will add even more money into the economy and increase the deficit.

Are there other issues where you feel your life is notably worse under Biden?

[JimmyBT]

One would hope their quality of life gets better as time goes by.  Different/better jobs, better pay, compounding investments, owning homes etc….   That’s how it’s supposed to work.  Then your health goes and you die.  Doesn’t mean people arent spending more on the same things under Biden than they did under Trump.  

[JimmyBT]

9 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Just curious, what specific parts of your life were better under Trump?

The obvious one for me is prices. Everything is expensive now, though it's (very) slowly receding. However, a portion of that inflation was caused by stuff Trump did that carried over to Biden, so it's hard to disentangle the blame.

Plus, many of the economists who predicted the inflation issue under Biden think Trump's platform will actually exacerbate the issue. The combination of extreme tariffs - increases the price of imports which in turn allows domestic sellers to raise prices - and mass deportation - contraction of the labor pool in key industries which will lead to companies needing to offer higher wages to fill shortages and thus lead to more price increases. 

That doesn't even include his plan to extend his 2017 tax cuts which will add even more money into the economy and increase the deficit.

Are there other issues where you feel your life is notably worse under Biden?

Still blaming Trump for Bidenflation. Might try blaming it on the record number of executive orders Biden signed the day he took office that caused most of it.  It’s been almost four years and for two of them he had control of the house, senate and Oval Office so I’d say he’s had plenty of time to fix his mess.  Filling up a vehicle or going grocery shopping is way worse under Biden than trump.  Oh and the wide open border hasn’t made us any safer and does nothing but increase our debt.  

[WrestlingRasta]

45 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Would you consider running for President? You would be a good one.

Hard to run the USA from a wooden shack in Jamaica.

[jross]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

My quality of life is better now than it was with Trump, even with some serious hardships thrown my way the last couple of years.   And when Trump was Pres, my quality of life was slightly better than under Obama.  And under Obama, a little better than with Bush.   

Makes me wonder what the biggest factor, by a not even comparable margin, is the biggest factor in my quality of life......me, or the President.

Absolutely you.

But the president impacts culture and policy.

And culture makes it hard.

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Absolutely you.

But the president impacts culture and policy.

And culture makes it hard.

You believe one president makes more of an impact on our culture than 333 million people?   No.

I've never seen people attach themselves so much to a President as what we are seeing today, and that's what makes it very interesting.

[uncle bernard]

36 minutes ago, jross said:

Absolutely you.

But the president impacts culture and policy.

And culture makes it hard.

I thought you were Mr. Personal Accountability?

[jross]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

You believe one president makes more of an impact on our culture than 333 million people?   No.

I've never seen people attach themselves so much to a President as what we are seeing today, and that's what makes it very interesting.

Is culture a big word with many slices to it?

Is culture based on actions?

Does having your 'side' in charge create empowerment to act?  

Did President Biden have an impact on culture?

• aggressively address inflation (no)
• condemn antisemitic comments from the left (no)
• enable the worst influx of illegal immigrants in history in consecutive years (yes)
• write off student debt (yes)
• portray half the country as evil, anti-democratic monsters (yes)

Did President Trump have an impact on culture?

• Trump communicated a vision of making America great again, positively impacting nationalism.
• He incentivized bringing jobs back to America, which had real effects.
• He influenced power back to the states on abortion through Supreme Court judges.
• He implemented measures to slow illegal immigration while expressing support for legal immigration.

The President impact is undeniably substantial.  I've seen this on a 5K to 170K employee scale working for corporations with changing CEOs.

[jross]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

I thought you were Mr. Personal Accountability?

Reread 'absolutely you' again to the question 'is the biggest factor in my quality of life......me, or the President.' and understand that is personal accountability.

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Is culture a big word with many slices to it?

Is culture based on actions?

Does having your 'side' in charge create empowerment to act?  

Did President Biden have an impact on culture?

• aggressively address inflation (no)
• condemn antisemitic comments from the left (no)
• enable the worst influx of illegal immigrants in history in consecutive years (yes)
• write off student debt (yes)
• portray half the country as evil, anti-democratic monsters (yes)

Did President Trump have an impact on culture?

• Trump communicated a vision of making America great again, positively impacting nationalism.
• He incentivized bringing jobs back to America, which had real effects.
• He influenced power back to the states on abortion through Supreme Court judges.
• He implemented measures to slow illegal immigration while expressing support for legal immigration.

The President impact is undeniably substantial.  I've seen this on a 5K to 170K employee scale working for corporations with changing CEOs.

He did this - even though the accusations were mostly BS. He gave an entire speech at the Holocaust museum on it.

[jross]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

He did this - even though the accusations were mostly BS. He gave an entire speech at the Holocaust museum on it.

I was wrong and have revised my grade from an F to an A+.

Does the president impact culture?

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Just curious, what specific parts of your life were better under Trump?

The obvious one for me is prices. Everything is expensive now, though it's (very) slowly receding. However, a portion of that inflation was caused by stuff Trump did that carried over to Biden, so it's hard to disentangle the blame.

Covid should not have been weaponized.  Trump shouldn't have given in to others with how he handled Covid.  And that had an impact on inflation.

It is not hard to disentangle the blame.  How did Biden handle the same situation after having months to prepare?  What else did Biden do that increased inflation?

[fishbane]

12 minutes ago, jross said:

Does the president impact culture?

Should the president impact culture?  Is that really the mark of a good leader?  If we made a list of heads of state and former heads of states over history that had the greatest impact on their country's/world culture it would be at least equal parts infamous.

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, jross said:

Is culture a big word with many slices to it?

Is culture based on actions?

Does having your 'side' in charge create empowerment to act?  

Did President Biden have an impact on culture?

• aggressively address inflation (no)
• condemn antisemitic comments from the left (no)
• enable the worst influx of illegal immigrants in history in consecutive years (yes)
• write off student debt (yes)
• portray half the country as evil, anti-democratic monsters (yes)

Did President Trump have an impact on culture?

• Trump communicated a vision of making America great again, positively impacting nationalism.
• He incentivized bringing jobs back to America, which had real effects.
• He influenced power back to the states on abortion through Supreme Court judges.
• He implemented measures to slow illegal immigration while expressing support for legal immigration.

The President impact is undeniably substantial.  I've seen this on a 5K to 170K employee scale working for corporations with changing CEOs.

So, it's mostly just "vibes" then?

Trump's impact according to you:

1. A good slogan that made (some) people feel good

2. Obama added jobs both terms. Biden's added jobs in this term. Trump lost jobs in his. Those are empirical facts, though there is important context to be considered. Obama and Biden took over in the midst of recessions. It's easier to add jobs during a recovery. Trump's numbers are impacted by Covid. How much job loss was due to his decisions vs. how much was inevitable, it's hard to say. Pre-covid, his job creation continued at about the same rate as Obama's the previous term.

3. Perfectly reasonable reason for you to support him, but most of the country did not support this.

4. This feels like mostly a rhetoric thing. He deported fewer people than Obama.

2 minutes ago, jross said:

I was wrong and have revised my grade from an F to an A+.

Does the president impact culture?

Of course. I think people disagree on the degree of impact and whether they were good. I would argue that Trump's rhetoric on immigration fueled a lot xenophobic hate and made this country worse. I would also his political approach crystallized a very toxic polarization that had been worsening over the prior decades. 

[uncle bernard]

11 minutes ago, jross said:

Covid should not have been weaponized.  Trump shouldn't have given in to others with how he handled Covid.  And that had an impact on inflation.

It is not hard to disentangle the blame.  How did Biden handle the same situation after having months to prepare?  What else did Biden do that increased inflation?

It's also possible that inflation was a necessary evil that saved the economy. Without the checks and business loans, maybe the whole bottom falls out and we're in an even worse spot now?

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Are there other issues where you feel your life is notably worse under Biden?

Cancel culture.  Sharing a conservative opinion put me at risk for cancel culture.  I dared not speak up at work or social media. (e.g. fear installed)

Crime. (e.g. fear installed)

Minimizing public support for the nuclear family. (e.g. concern and anxiety for my children's future children)

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Cancel culture.  Sharing a conservative opinion put me at risk for cancel culture.  I dared not speak up at work or social media. (e.g. fear installed)

Crime. (e.g. fear installed)

Minimizing public support for the nuclear family. (e.g. concern and anxiety for my children's future children)

1. There's plenty of conservative cancel culture too. That's not a one-sided issue.

2. Crime is extremely low. That's a perception issue based on over-consumption of 24 hours news.

3. What does this mean? Vibes? Biden oversaw the expansion of the Child Tax Credit which gave more support to nuclear families and was one of the most successful reductions in child poverty in history. That expansion lapsed because the republicans (and some democrats) didn't renew it. Biden's pledged to renew it again. That's significant public support for the nuclear family, is it not?

[jross]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Biden's added jobs in this term. Trump lost jobs in his. 

Technically correct but intellectual bullshit.  We could get into the details, digging deeper.  Were Biden's job new or recovered?  Are Biden's jobs public or private?  Are Biden's jobs full-time or part-time... Did my wife start working again because Biden created the job or because the purchase power is down?  How are small businesses doing?

Put that aside.

Given an equal environment, who is more likely to create jobs that increase the worker's quality of life with more substance and breadth, without growing the government and national debt?

[uncle bernard]

6 minutes ago, jross said:

Technically correct but intellectual bullshit.  We could get into the details, digging deeper.  Were Biden's job new or recovered?  Are Biden's jobs public or private?  Are Biden's jobs full-time or part-time... Did my wife start working again because Biden created the job or because the purchase power is down?  How are small businesses doing?

Put that aside.

Given an equal environment, who is more likely to create jobs that increase the worker's quality of life with more substance and breadth, without growing the government and national debt?

You can do the research and post that if you want. I don't have time. As long as you apply those same questions to Trump's term. How many of his jobs were a result of Obama's policies?

I'd pick the Dems. The trickle down stuff doesn't work. I don't really care if the government "grows" if the growth is in service of good policy.

Edited June 11 by uncle bernard

[mspart]

Are you saying that you don't mind if the government grows so big it spends more than the annual GDP of the productive class?   I hope that is not what you are saying.    But it seems like you are.

Government does not create, it uses.   Private Enterprise creates.

mspart

[jross]

8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1. There's plenty of conservative cancel culture too. That's not a one-sided issue.

2. Crime is extremely low. That's a perception issue based on over-consumption of 24 hours news.

3. What does this mean? Vibes? Biden oversaw the expansion of the Child Tax Credit which gave more support to nuclear families and was one of the most successful reductions in child poverty in history. That expansion lapsed because the republicans (and some democrats) didn't renew it. Biden's pledged to renew it again. That's significant public support for the nuclear family, is it not?

1. Are you in fear of losing your job if you share commonly held opinions at work or in public?  Fear because a conservative is going to call your employer and try to get you fired?

Karens and Chads exist on the conservative side too.  Most conservatives I know will refrain from policing your freedom of speech.  They won't invite you to their party but they aren't going to try to ruin your life.

2. It is better this year than last year, but maybe that's just me staying away from the city after the crimes committed against me.

3. Something like 19% of Biden supporters believe that having children and marriage is important.  When is the last time you saw a TV show with a nuclear family?  My children don't even know if they want to have children and one doesn't know about marriage.  And this is tragic.  Children raised apart from the care of both natural parents consistently experience lower developmental outcomes.

A century ago (1920) almost all children (above 90 percent) grew to age eighteen with intact married biological parents; by 2020, less than a third (29 percent) could expect to do so (Parker, Horowitz, and Rohal 2015). Today less than 60 percent of children even begin life with married parents (Ventura 2009; Martin et al. 2019), and half of those who do will be denied the residential care of one or both parents before age eighteen (Amato 2000).  link

And we conservatives/all are getting force fed cultural support for abortion and self-interest over traditional family values.

[WrestlingRasta]

Pretty much won't be able to take you seriously anymore when you preach to the whole board about personal responsibility.

[uncle bernard]

15 minutes ago, jross said:

1. Are you in fear of losing your job if you share commonly held opinions at work or in public?  Fear because a conservative is going to call your employer and try to get you fired?

Karens and Chads exist on the conservative side too.  Most conservatives I know will refrain from policing your freedom of speech.  They won't invite you to their party but they aren't going to try to ruin your life.

2. It is better this year than last year, but maybe that's just me staying away from the city after the crimes committed against me.

3. Something like 19% of Biden supporters believe that having children and marriage is important.  When is the last time you saw a TV show with a nuclear family?  My children don't even know if they want to have children and one doesn't know about marriage.  And this is tragic.  Children raised apart from the care of both natural parents consistently experience lower developmental outcomes.

A century ago (1920) almost all children (above 90 percent) grew to age eighteen with intact married biological parents; by 2020, less than a third (29 percent) could expect to do so (Parker, Horowitz, and Rohal 2015). Today less than 60 percent of children even begin life with married parents (Ventura 2009; Martin et al. 2019), and half of those who do will be denied the residential care of one or both parents before age eighteen (Amato 2000).  link

And we conservatives/all are getting force fed cultural support for abortion and self-interest over traditional family values.

1. The number 1 threat to my job would be from conservatives for my pro-palestine views, so yes. They have very publicly been going after peoples' jobs or students' futures for this. Conservatives have also been working hard to get teachers fired for "promoting" woke ideology.

2. I'm sorry crimes were committed against you. Crime will always exist. It's far, far lower than it was in 70s-90s.

3. Where are you getting those numbers? I don't watch network TV, so I can't speak to current shows, but I do know Modern Family was huge and that featured 3 nuclear families. I feel like sitcoms are out of style in general. Most shows are focused around Doctors or Cops these days I think.

4. So your guy is the twice-divorced billionaire who cheats on his wife with pornstars? Is that supposed to promote the nuclear family? As opposed to the faithful catholic guy with 4 children and 7 grandchildren? You're gonna have to explain that one to me.