Did Mesenbrink really not know he was losing in the finals?

[ionel]

31 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Does MM have a redshirt?  I think he actually could use one to work on defense.  His offense is elite but he can improve on defense and bottom.

Carr is graduating ... he should be fine. 

[forkemaz]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

But again ... had his coaches left the stadium?  

This is a real question. Do you think yelling gets it across or do you think like one poster said it almost requires. Phony brick so you can get in his ear?

[jackwebster]

Mesenbrink's dad seems like a pretty involved parent. Does he give Cael a talking to?

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

This is a real question. Do you think yelling gets it across or do you think like one poster said it almost requires. Phony brick so you can get in his ear?

I'd think Cael & Co would, like others, coached these kids to look at the coaching corner every time going back to center for a restart.  But yeah a fake brick might be a last resort in the finals if you know your wrestler didn't get the info.  That said I hate bricks fake or real.  

[Idaho]

2 hours ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

All i am saying is the greatest coaching staff ever assembled, could not make such a rookie mistake in a national finals match, I see Bono or others doing that but not the PSU coaching staff, and if this is the case does it hurt recruiting? do you send your kid there when the coaching staff doesn't even know the score??

Something tells me winning another national title, setting the scoring record and having 2 4x champs is going oveshadow this mistake in the recruiting realm.  

On a related note, even if Messenbrink knew he needed a score in the last 15 to get the win, it does not mean he does. 

Edited March 24 by Idaho

[Ivan Stankowski]

6 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Something tells me winning another national title, setting the scoring record and having 2 4x champs is going oveshadow this mistake in the recruiting realm.  

On a related note, even if Messenbrink knew he needed a score in the last 15 to get the win, it does not mean he does. 

It was more like 50 seconds, and you are 100% correct that it does not mean MM would have taken him down, Carr wrestled great.

[fishbane]

1 minute ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

It was more like 50 seconds, and you are 100% correct that it does not mean MM would have taken him down, Carr wrestled great.

You're right about the time since he cut Carr, but to be fair he was trying to score up until maybe 15 seconds.  I don't think the announcers or anyone else thought he might not know the score until 15s.  On the other hand if he had been fully aware he may have been attacking like Vito for 50s.

[jackwebster]

2 minutes ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

It was more like 50 seconds, and you are 100% correct that it does not mean MM would have taken him down, Carr wrestled great.

If no td, can't imagine a scenario where he doesn't get the 2-point stall call. 

[skandar]

Carl knew what he was(n’t) doing. Couldn’t have another undefeated 4 timer.

[swoopdown]

7 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Something tells me winning another national title, setting the scoring record and having 2 4x champs is going oveshadow this mistake in the recruiting realm.  

On a related note, even if Messenbrink knew he needed a score in the last 15 to get the win, it does not mean he does. 

I'm certain that this blunder will result in Cael never getting a high level recruit again and having all his wrestlers enter the portal.  If Cael was Japanese seppuku would be the only option. 

Well, on the bright side Messenbrink's situational awareness will improve reducing his dependency on coaches and making him a better wrestler after his transfer.

[Major Kong]

35 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

If no td, can't imagine a scenario where he doesn't get the 2-point stall call. 

I can. Can't remember a ref giving a stall call (no matter how obviously deserved) with less than 20 seconds left to affect the outcome of a big match. Let alone a NCAA Final. Football refs will call a penalty in the analogous situation, baseball umps will call a strike or ball, but our refs are way too timid. Smart wrestlers know this.

[PSULou64]

As some pointed out Carr and MM were on the far side of the mat, the place was insanely loud and when MM looked at the score he was up still because the score operator was slow to get the Carr point up.

I'm not saying there isn't some blame on the coaches but there is no way he hears them, even if they are screaming and since he can't see them either there is no way to get his attention.

[jackwebster]

10 minutes ago, Major Kong said:

I can. Can't remember a ref giving a stall call (no matter how obviously deserved) with less than 20 seconds left to affect the outcome of a big match. Let alone a NCAA Final. Football refs will call a penalty in the analogous situation, baseball umps will call a strike or ball, but our refs are way too timid. Smart wrestlers know this.

Good point. What about if he started his flurry at :50?

** Edit ** However, if it were just a 1 point stall, then Carr for sure gets hit.

Edited March 24 by jackwebster

[red viking]

Very obvious he thought it was going into OT. Unlikely alternative is that he just gave up. 

 

[Major Kong]

4 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Good point. What about if he started his flurry at :50?

I think if he had kept the pace up with Carr not engaging for the last 50 seconds in full, there was a small chance they call the stall. The last thing Carr wanted was a scramble, so it may have been obvious enough.

[NormMacDonald]

This is why wrestlers should have a speaker in their headgear so coaches can talk directly to them. 

[headshuck]

[headshuck]

“I’ll spot you 1 point.”

[Rassling]

Of course not, but his coaches surely knew, no?

[jackwebster]

4 minutes ago, NormMacDonald said:

This is why wrestlers should have a speaker in their headgear so coaches can talk directly to them. 

I disagree. It should be like tennis: no coaching during the match.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm very happy for Carr, but what a travesty for MM's run to end on a mental lapse like that. The tides were clearly turning in the third period in favor of Mesenbrink and he took his foot off the pedal in the last 25 seconds or so.

This match is an example of where Carl's hands-off approach doesn't work. He says he trusts his guys to do their thing without him having to constantly shout instructions from the corner, but the PSU coaches should've been jumping up and down, shouting, signaling, anything to MM that he needed to GO.

It's sad, and it reminds me a little of J'Den Cox missing out on his chance for a gold medal in Rio because he didn't know he was losing by criteria.

[jackwebster]

1 minute ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

 the PSU coaches should've been jumping up and down, shouting, signaling, anything to MM that he needed to GO.

Any idea what were they doing? 

[CHROMEBIRD]

9 minutes ago, headshuck said:

For a moment there MM forgot what sport he was in and went full Dikembe Mutombo on us 

[NormMacDonald]

6 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

I disagree. It should be like tennis: no coaching during the match.

Ohhhh. Interesting. The opposing coaches have to sit in a sound proof penalty box type thing next to each other during the match. 
 

[NormMacDonald]

Just now, jackwebster said:

Any idea what were they doing? 

Laundry