VakAttack Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Is this a first? I'm not knocking the ranking, either, it's true he hasn't earned much higher, though he didn't have much opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 It's the unfortunate part of going to a small program with a weak schedule 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Never heard of the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 It's a pretty tough top ten to be honest. 197 has to b e one of the strongest weight classes this year (for a change) 197lbs RANK WRESTLER SCHOOL CLASS CONFERENCE RECORD LAST 1 Aaron Brooks Penn State Senior Big Ten 14-0 1 2 Trent Hidlay NC State Senior ACC 22-0 2 3 Michael Beard Lehigh Junior EIWA 22-1 3 4 Jaxon Smith Maryland Sophomore Big Ten 15-3 4 5 Tanner Sloan South Dakota State Senior Big 12 19-1 5 6 Stephen Buchanan Oklahoma Senior Big 12 22-1 6 7 Louie DePrez Binghamton Senior EIWA 19-1 9 8 Jacob Cardenas Cornell Senior EIWA 19-5 7 9 Stephen Little Little Rock Freshman Pac-12 19-2 8 10 Rocky Elam Missouri Junior Big 12 9-2 10 11 Zach Glazier Iowa Junior Big Ten 21-1 11 12 Luke Stout Princeton Junior EIWA 18-6 12 13 Silas Allred Nebraska Sophomore Big Ten 20-5 13 14 Evan Bockman Utah Valley Senior Big 12 16-5 14 15 Mac Stout Pittsburgh Freshman ACC 17-5 15 16 Luke Surber Oklahoma State Junior Big 12 12-4 16 17 Nick Stemmet Stanford Junior Pac-12 24-7 17 18 Levi Hopkins Campbell Junior SoCon 24-6 18 19 Joey Novak Wyoming Freshman Big 12 18-10 19 20 Garrett Joles Minnesota Senior Big Ten 18-6 20 21 Luke Geog Ohio State Freshman Big Ten 12-6 21 22 John Poznanski Rutgers Sophomore Big Ten 12-2 22 23 Max Shaw North Carolina Junior ACC 16-4 23 24 Wyatt Voelker Northern Iowa Freshman Big 12 14-4 24 25 Cole Urbas Pennsylvania Senior EIWA 13-8 25 26 Justin Rademacher Oregon State Freshman Pac-12 16-8 28 27 Andy Smith Virginia Tech Junior ACC 15-7 26 28 Jack Wehmeyer Columbia Sophomore EIWA 17-9 27 29 Sam Mitchell Buffalo Junior MAC 19-5 29 30 Kael Wisler Michigan State Freshman Big Ten 23-12 30 31 John Crawford Franklin & Marshall Senior EIWA 20-9 31 32 Ben Smith Cleveland State Senior MAC 18-5 32 33 Gabe Sollars Indiana Sophomore Big Ten 20-12 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULou64 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11. He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim L Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Tough top ten, but this must be one the Big10's weakest weight classes with only two top ten wrestlers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Method of win as well as the opponents defeated are factored in to rankings as much as losses, gents. At the end of the day the highest ranked guy he has beaten is Allred, who has actually had an identical record as last year thus far, but has been beaten on in his losses (four of five were bonus losses, included a Tech loss to Cardenas). I know for the sake of argument he has one loss, but every human that does the rankings knows that he also physically lost to Focus as well. The ranking makes sense. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Unfortunately, there isn't much movement for him that can be made at B1Gs either. He loses to anybody but Glazier and he will drop. Unless someone else (in other conferences) takes a fluke loss or three as well at conferences. Edited March 1 by nhs67 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) @VakAttack this could make for a great trivia question. I can't think of another Iowa wrestler with one loss on the season ranked outside of the top 10 going into the conference tournament. @Wrestleknownothing I believe you have all the data. Can you confirm? Edited March 1 by PortaJohn I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Hasn’t beaten any top 10 guys and only wrestled one. Should get seeded on the same side as Smith from MD so he’ll get another one there.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 1 minute ago, Le duke said: Hasn’t beaten any top 10 guys and only wrestled one. Should get seeded on the same side as Smoth from MD so he’ll get another one there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Vak isn't disagreeing with the ranking just asking if it's a first for an Iowa wrestler. I believe it might be Edited March 1 by PortaJohn I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 11 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: @VakAttack this could make for a great trivia question. I can't think of another Iowa wrestler with one loss on the season ranked outside of the top 10 going into the conference tournament. @Wrestleknownothing I believe you have all the data. Can you confirm? Sadly, I do not have much ranking data. All I have is the last two years or so. But I will guess this hasn't happened in recent history because Glazier was not a known entity (a rarity for an Iowa wrestler) and suffers from an anchoring problem. He started off unranked. And given the way the rankings work, you have to beat someone higher to move up, but are generally not penalized for losing to someone higher. So Glazier is limited in his ability to move up, but if he started as the #2 wrestler and only lost to Brooks, he would not fall far, if at all. Where you start matters. The exact same record can result in very different rankings based on starting points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Blades Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, PSULou64 said: With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11. He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing. Cardenas has wrestled a very tough schedule, all of his losses are to the #2, 3, 5, and 7 ranked guys; and he's beaten 9, 10, 12 and 13 (9 and 13 by bonus wins). His ranking totally makes sense with him at 8th. Glazer may wrestle in the B1G, but he doesn't have many ranked wins to show. Edited March 1 by Red Blades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 47 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Vak isn't disagreeing with the ranking just asking if it's a first for an Iowa wrestler. I believe it might be Not even specifically Iowa, any Big 10 wrestler! This is more common for like a SOCON wrestler. More of a curiosity than anything, though. As I (and others, including yourself) have noted, he doesn't really have the wins. Interesting thought experiment, how high could he rise after B1Gs if he beats Smith (possible, but I would pick Smith)? What if he scored the upset over Brooks (highly, highly unlikely)? I would say a win over Smith is unlikely to get him over 6-7, and a win over Brooks still unlikely to get him any higher than 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 23 minutes ago, VakAttack said: Not even specifically Iowa, any Big 10 wrestler! This is more common for like a SOCON wrestler. More of a curiosity than anything, though. As I (and others, including yourself) have noted, he doesn't really have the wins. Interesting thought experiment, how high could he rise after B1Gs if he beats Smith (possible, but I would pick Smith)? What if he scored the upset over Brooks (highly, highly unlikely)? I would say a win over Smith is unlikely to get him over 6-7, and a win over Brooks still unlikely to get him any higher than 3. Depends on the ranking service. If he beats Brooks, I’d bet Flo puts him at 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Blades Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Well, let's also look at the rankings (the Coaches' Rankings) that actually count: 197 1 Aaron Brooks Penn State Big Ten 396 197 2 Trent Hidlay NC State ACC 384 197 3 Michael Beard Lehigh EIWA 361 197 4 Tanner Sloan South Dakota State Big 12 357 197 5 Jaxon Smith Maryland Big Ten 342 197 6 Stephen Buchanan Oklahoma Big 12 340 197 7 Lou Deprez Binghamton EIWA 323 197 8 Jacob Cardenas Cornell EIWA 316 197 9 Rocky Elam Missouri Big 12 305 197 10 stephen little Little Rock Pac 12 292 197 11 Zach Glazier Iowa Big Ten 277 197 12 Luke Stout Princeton EIWA 255 197 13 Silas Allred Nebraska Big Ten 254 197 14 Evan Bockman Utah Valley Big 12 226 197 15 Mac Stout Pittsburgh ACC 211 197 16 Nikolas Stemmet Stanford Pac 12 201.5 197 17 John Poznanski Rutgers Big Ten 189.5 197 18 Levi Hopkins Campbell SoCon 181.5 197 19 Max Shaw North Carolina ACC 165.5 197 20 Luke Surber Oklahoma State Big 12 159.5 197 21 Joseph Novak Wyoming Big 12 156.5 197 22 Garrett Joles Minnesota Big Ten 151.5 197 23 Luke Geog Ohio State Big Ten 141.5 197 24 Wyatt Voelker Northern Iowa Big 12 125 197 25 Andy Smith Virginia Tech ACC 105 197 26 Cole Urbas Pennsylvania EIWA 102 197 27 Justin Rademacher Oregon State Pac 12 84.5 197 28 Sam Mitchell Buffalo MAC 64 197 29 John Crawford Franklin & Marshall EIWA 54 197 30 Jack Wehmeyer Columbia EIWA 45 197 31 Benjamin Smith Cleveland State MAC 40.5 197 32 Evan Bates Northwestern Big Ten 34.5 197 33 Gabe Sollars Indiana Big Ten 28. There are some slight differences from Intermat's rankings, with Smith ranked 5th rather than 4th. So the question is - how much would a win over Smith (or hypothetically Brooks) sway the opinion of 2 coaches from each conference? Edited March 1 by Red Blades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Blades Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 There is a really interesting subtext to this discussion, IMO - both Penn State and Iowa passed on attending any of the tougher early season tournaments this year, presumably on the belief that the B1G schedule in itself is enough competition. In this case, however, that thinking may have not served Glazier well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 3 hours ago, PSULou64 said: With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11. He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing. Cardenas has only lost to guys ahead of him, I don’t think he should be ranked ahead of Cardenas. Of the top 10 guys, based on this season’s resume he kinda has an argument over Elam IMO, who lost to the aforementioned Cardenas and doesn’t have a win better than Allred. His ranking is just predicated on finishing 3rd last year. Nitpicking a but, but I see Flo has Glazier at 12 behind Stout of Princeton (Intermat has Glazier 11/Stout 12). Considering Stout has 5 losses including one to Poznanski, and shares Glazier’s best win, I’d think Glazier should at least be higher than him (and looks like the coaches agree) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 7 guys with no losses or one loss ... several of those guys like Buchanan, Deprez and Sloan have not wrestled very tough schedules. Glazier does not have an impressive schedule either... the result being a lot of guys with good records. Edited March 1 by Idaho Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, nhs67 said: Method of win as well as the opponents defeated are factored in to rankings as much as losses, gents. At the end of the day the highest ranked guy he has beaten is Allred, who has actually had an identical record as last year thus far, but has been beaten on in his losses (four of five were bonus losses, included a Tech loss to Cardenas). I know for the sake of argument he has one loss, but every human that does the rankings knows that he also physically lost to Focus as well. The ranking makes sense. I agree it makes sense, but the Focus match doesn’t count anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 19 minutes ago, 1032004 said: I agree it makes sense, but the Focus match doesn’t count anyway It "doesn't" count, but you and I both know that coaches will count that L as much as they count ASC losses. They do but they "don't" you know? "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just now, nhs67 said: It "doesn't" count, but you and I both know that coaches will count that L as much as they count ASC losses. They do but they "don't" you know? How would it hurt Glazier though? Ferrari was a former national champ and didn’t lose to anyone (else) at Soldier Salute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just now, 1032004 said: How would it hurt Glazier though? Ferrari was a former national champ and didn’t lose to anyone (else) at Soldier Salute A former national champ that hasn't won a title in years, or in other worlds a non-qualifier since 2021(?). "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I mean... 'beating' Focus obviously didn't help him in the rankings. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 5 minutes ago, nhs67 said: A former national champ that hasn't won a title in years, or in other worlds a non-qualifier since 2021(?). He’s also undefeated in folkstyle since 2021 if we’re not counting Glazier though. And he also officially beat Intermat #19 Novak of Wyoming at Soldier Salute, so it’s not like Ferrari looked awful prior to the double birds. edit: I agree “beating” Focus wouldn’t help Glazier. I’m saying it’s pretty much irrelevant Edited March 1 by 1032004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliana White-Vega Cumberland Valley, Pennsylvania Class of 2024 Committed to North Central (Women) Projected Weight: 123
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