Zach Glazier 16-1 against a B1G schedule but not even ranked in the top 10

[VakAttack]

Is this a first?  I'm not knocking the ranking, either, it's true he hasn't earned much higher, though he didn't have much opportunity.

[flyingcement]

It's the unfortunate part of going to a small program with a weak schedule

[Ohio Elite]

Never heard of the guy.

[flyingcement]

It's a pretty tough top ten to be honest. 197 has to b e one of the strongest weight classes this year (for a change) 197lbs
RANK	WRESTLER	SCHOOL	CLASS	CONFERENCE	RECORD	LAST
1	Aaron Brooks	Penn State	Senior	Big Ten	14-0	1
2	Trent Hidlay	NC State	Senior	ACC	22-0	2
3	Michael Beard	Lehigh	Junior	EIWA	22-1	3
4	Jaxon Smith	Maryland	Sophomore	Big Ten	15-3	4
5	Tanner Sloan	South Dakota State	Senior	Big 12	19-1	5
6	Stephen Buchanan	Oklahoma	Senior	Big 12	22-1	6
7	Louie DePrez	Binghamton	Senior	EIWA	19-1	9
8	Jacob Cardenas	Cornell	Senior	EIWA	19-5	7
9	Stephen Little	Little Rock	Freshman	Pac-12	19-2	8
10	Rocky Elam	Missouri	Junior	Big 12	9-2	10
11	Zach Glazier	Iowa	Junior	Big Ten	21-1	11
12	Luke Stout	Princeton	Junior	EIWA	18-6	12
13	Silas Allred	Nebraska	Sophomore	Big Ten	20-5	13
14	Evan Bockman	Utah Valley	Senior	Big 12	16-5	14
15	Mac Stout	Pittsburgh	Freshman	ACC	17-5	15
16	Luke Surber	Oklahoma State	Junior	Big 12	12-4	16
17	Nick Stemmet	Stanford	Junior	Pac-12	24-7	17
18	Levi Hopkins	Campbell	Junior	SoCon	24-6	18
19	Joey Novak	Wyoming	Freshman	Big 12	18-10	19
20	Garrett Joles	Minnesota	Senior	Big Ten	18-6	20
21	Luke Geog	Ohio State	Freshman	Big Ten	12-6	21
22	John Poznanski	Rutgers	Sophomore	Big Ten	12-2	22
23	Max Shaw	North Carolina	Junior	ACC	16-4	23
24	Wyatt Voelker	Northern Iowa	Freshman	Big 12	14-4	24
25	Cole Urbas	Pennsylvania	Senior	EIWA	13-8	25
26	Justin Rademacher	Oregon State	Freshman	Pac-12	16-8	28
27	Andy Smith	Virginia Tech	Junior	ACC	15-7	26
28	Jack Wehmeyer	Columbia	Sophomore	EIWA	17-9	27
29	Sam Mitchell	Buffalo	Junior	MAC	19-5	29
30	Kael Wisler	Michigan State	Freshman	Big Ten	23-12	30
31	John Crawford	Franklin & Marshall	Senior	EIWA	20-9	31
32	Ben Smith	Cleveland State	Senior	MAC	18-5	32
33	Gabe Sollars	Indiana	Sophomore	Big Ten	20-12	33

[PSULou64]

With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11.  He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing.  

[Jim L]

Tough top ten, but this must be one the Big10's weakest weight classes with only two top ten wrestlers

[nhs67]

Method of win as well as the opponents defeated are factored in to rankings as much as losses, gents.

At the end of the day the highest ranked guy he has beaten is Allred, who has actually had an identical record as last year thus far, but has been beaten on in his losses (four of five were bonus losses, included a Tech loss to Cardenas).

I know for the sake of argument he has one loss, but every human that does the rankings knows that he also physically lost to Focus as well.

The ranking makes sense.

[nhs67]

Unfortunately, there isn't much movement for him that can be made at B1Gs either.  He loses to anybody but Glazier and he will drop.  Unless someone else (in other conferences) takes a fluke loss or three as well at conferences.

Edited March 1 by nhs67

[PortaJohn]

@VakAttack this could make for a great trivia question.  I can't think of another Iowa wrestler with one loss on the season ranked outside of the top 10 going into the conference tournament.  @Wrestleknownothing I believe you have all the data.  Can you confirm?

Edited March 1 by PortaJohn

[Le duke]

Hasn’t beaten any top 10 guys and only wrestled one.

Should get seeded on the same side as Smith from MD so he’ll get another one there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

Hasn’t beaten any top 10 guys and only wrestled one.

Should get seeded on the same side as Smoth from MD so he’ll get another one there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vak isn't disagreeing with the ranking just asking if it's a first for an Iowa wrestler.  I believe it might be

Edited March 1 by PortaJohn

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

@VakAttack this could make for a great trivia question.  I can't think of another Iowa wrestler with one loss on the season ranked outside of the top 10 going into the conference tournament.  @Wrestleknownothing I believe you have all the data.  Can you confirm?

Sadly, I do not have much ranking data. All I have is the last two years or so. 

But I will guess this hasn't happened in recent history because Glazier was not a known entity (a rarity for an Iowa wrestler) and suffers from an anchoring problem.

He started off unranked. And given the way the rankings work, you have to beat someone higher to move up, but are generally not penalized for losing to someone higher. So Glazier is limited in his ability to move up, but if he started as the #2 wrestler and only lost to Brooks, he would not fall far, if at all. 

Where you start matters. The exact same record can result in very different rankings based on starting points. 

[Red Blades]

2 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11.  He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing.  

Cardenas has wrestled a very tough schedule, all of his losses are to the #2, 3, 5, and 7 ranked guys; and he's beaten 9, 10, 12 and 13 (9 and 13 by bonus wins).  His ranking totally makes sense with him at 8th.  Glazer may wrestle in the B1G, but he doesn't have many ranked wins to show.

Edited March 1 by Red Blades

[VakAttack]

47 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Vak isn't disagreeing with the ranking just asking if it's a first for an Iowa wrestler.  I believe it might be

Not even specifically Iowa, any Big 10 wrestler!  This is more common for like a SOCON wrestler.  More of a curiosity than anything, though.  As I (and others, including yourself) have noted, he doesn't really have the wins. 

 

Interesting thought experiment, how high could he rise after B1Gs if he beats Smith (possible, but I would pick Smith)?  What if he scored the upset over Brooks (highly, highly unlikely)?  I would say a win over Smith is unlikely to get him over 6-7, and a win over Brooks still unlikely to get him any higher than 3.

[1032004]

23 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Not even specifically Iowa, any Big 10 wrestler!  This is more common for like a SOCON wrestler.  More of a curiosity than anything, though.  As I (and others, including yourself) have noted, he doesn't really have the wins. 

 

Interesting thought experiment, how high could he rise after B1Gs if he beats Smith (possible, but I would pick Smith)?  What if he scored the upset over Brooks (highly, highly unlikely)?  I would say a win over Smith is unlikely to get him over 6-7, and a win over Brooks still unlikely to get him any higher than 3.

Depends on the ranking service.  If he beats Brooks, I’d bet Flo puts him at 1

[Red Blades]

Well, let's also look at the rankings (the Coaches' Rankings) that actually count:

197 1 Aaron Brooks Penn State Big Ten 396

197 2 Trent Hidlay NC State ACC 384

197 3 Michael Beard Lehigh EIWA 361

197 4 Tanner Sloan South Dakota State Big 12 357

197 5 Jaxon Smith Maryland Big Ten 342

197 6 Stephen Buchanan Oklahoma Big 12 340

197 7 Lou Deprez Binghamton EIWA 323

197 8 Jacob Cardenas Cornell EIWA 316

197 9 Rocky Elam Missouri Big 12 305

197 10 stephen little Little Rock Pac 12 292

197 11 Zach Glazier Iowa Big Ten 277

197 12 Luke Stout Princeton EIWA 255

197 13 Silas Allred Nebraska Big Ten 254

197 14 Evan Bockman Utah Valley Big 12 226

197 15 Mac Stout Pittsburgh ACC 211

197 16 Nikolas Stemmet Stanford Pac 12 201.5

197 17 John Poznanski Rutgers Big Ten 189.5

197 18 Levi Hopkins Campbell SoCon 181.5

197 19 Max Shaw North Carolina ACC 165.5

197 20 Luke Surber Oklahoma State Big 12 159.5

197 21 Joseph Novak Wyoming Big 12 156.5

197 22 Garrett Joles Minnesota Big Ten 151.5

197 23 Luke Geog Ohio State Big Ten 141.5

197 24 Wyatt Voelker Northern Iowa Big 12 125

197 25 Andy Smith Virginia Tech ACC 105

197 26 Cole Urbas Pennsylvania EIWA 102

197 27 Justin Rademacher Oregon State Pac 12 84.5

197 28 Sam Mitchell Buffalo MAC 64

197 29 John Crawford Franklin & Marshall EIWA 54

197 30 Jack Wehmeyer Columbia EIWA 45

197 31 Benjamin Smith Cleveland State MAC 40.5

197 32 Evan Bates Northwestern Big Ten 34.5

197 33 Gabe Sollars Indiana Big Ten 28.

 

There are some slight differences from Intermat's rankings, with Smith ranked 5th rather than 4th.  So the question is - how much would a win over Smith (or hypothetically Brooks) sway the opinion of 2 coaches from each conference?

Edited March 1 by Red Blades

[Red Blades]

There is a really interesting subtext to this discussion, IMO - both Penn State and Iowa passed on attending any of the tougher early season tournaments this year, presumably on the belief that the B1G schedule in itself is enough competition.  In this case, however, that thinking may have not served Glazier well.

[1032004]

3 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

With Cardenas at 8 with 19-5 record the ranking doesn't make sense for Glazier to be 11.  He may not have as many ranked wins but he only had 1 loss to the number 1 guy and it was a very good showing.  

Cardenas has only lost to guys ahead of him, I don’t think he should be ranked ahead of Cardenas.

Of the top 10 guys, based on this season’s resume he kinda has an argument over Elam IMO, who lost to the aforementioned Cardenas and doesn’t have a win better than Allred.  His ranking is just predicated on finishing 3rd last year.

Nitpicking a but, but I see Flo has Glazier at 12 behind Stout of Princeton (Intermat has Glazier 11/Stout 12).  Considering Stout has 5 losses including one to Poznanski, and shares Glazier’s best win, I’d think Glazier should at least be higher than him (and looks like the coaches agree)

[Idaho]

7 guys with no losses or one loss ... several of those guys like Buchanan, Deprez and Sloan have not wrestled very tough schedules.  Glazier does not have an impressive schedule either... the result being a lot of guys with good records. 

Edited March 1 by Idaho

[1032004]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Method of win as well as the opponents defeated are factored in to rankings as much as losses, gents.

At the end of the day the highest ranked guy he has beaten is Allred, who has actually had an identical record as last year thus far, but has been beaten on in his losses (four of five were bonus losses, included a Tech loss to Cardenas).

I know for the sake of argument he has one loss, but every human that does the rankings knows that he also physically lost to Focus as well.

The ranking makes sense.

I agree it makes sense, but the Focus match doesn’t count anyway

[nhs67]

19 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I agree it makes sense, but the Focus match doesn’t count anyway

It "doesn't" count, but you and I both know that coaches will count that L as much as they count ASC losses.

They do but they "don't" you know?

[1032004]

Just now, nhs67 said:

It "doesn't" count, but you and I both know that coaches will count that L as much as they count ASC losses.

They do but they "don't" you know?

How would it hurt Glazier though?  Ferrari was a former national champ and didn’t lose to anyone (else) at Soldier Salute

[nhs67]

Just now, 1032004 said:

How would it hurt Glazier though?  Ferrari was a former national champ and didn’t lose to anyone (else) at Soldier Salute

A former national champ that hasn't won a title in years, or in other worlds a non-qualifier since 2021(?).

[nhs67]

I mean... 'beating' Focus obviously didn't help him in the rankings.

[1032004]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

A former national champ that hasn't won a title in years, or in other worlds a non-qualifier since 2021(?).

He’s also undefeated in folkstyle since 2021 if we’re not counting Glazier though.

And he also officially beat Intermat #19 Novak of Wyoming at Soldier Salute, so it’s not like Ferrari looked awful prior to the double birds.

edit:  I agree “beating” Focus wouldn’t help Glazier.  I’m saying it’s pretty much irrelevant 

Edited March 1 by 1032004