What constitutes stalling on top?

[Scouts Honor]

57 minutes ago, KLCarnegieTech_1969 said:

 The absence of scoring is not stalling. 

in freestyle it is...

if the score is 0-0 someone goes on the clock

[Chigachanuk]

I agree that the US should every-so-slowly move towards international wrestling scoring.  It just makes sense to prepare our wrestlers for international competition.  Why not, like international rules, just blow the whistle and get both wrestlers to neutral standing position with no points scored after some time of no action by either wrestler?

[NM1965]

2 minutes ago, Chigachanuk said:

I agree that the US should every-so-slowly move towards international wrestling scoring.  It just makes sense to prepare our wrestlers for international competition.  Why not, like international rules, just blow the whistle and get both wrestlers to neutral standing position with no points scored after some time of no action by either wrestler?

Naw. That wouldn't go over. There are too many fans out there like myself who like folk better because at least in folk the guy who gets the takedown gets a chance to work over the guy on bottom for turns. In FS they get, what, 3 seconds? That's ridiculous. If the NCAA adopted FS rules I wouldn't even bother watching college wrestling anymore, I'd just watch international FS if that happened. 

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, Chigachanuk said:

I agree that the US should every-so-slowly move towards international wrestling scoring.  It just makes sense to prepare our wrestlers for international competition.  Why not, like international rules, just blow the whistle and get both wrestlers to neutral standing position with no points scored after some time of no action by either wrestler?

If we went there next year who would be the first wrestler to win by techfall via pushout only?

Also would Wkn replace his favorite term pinfall with pushout?   

[JuanMogen]

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It's like you were staring in a mirror while you typed this. I can think of no one who posts as often as you who has less to say.

Maybe the twentieth time you call heavyweights fat guys who eat everything someone will laugh. Maybe the twenty first.

 

I have no expectation that the fat, old, bald burnouts of this place will laugh at anything except some meme they found on funny.com. 
 

Edit - forgot to add “angry” to the list of adjectives. 

Edited February 26 by JuanMogen

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

44 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

That was your takeaway from my comments??

That is what I said.  

 

44 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

That was your takeaway from my comments??

 

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

Just now, KLCarnegieTech_1969 said:

That is what I said.  

 

 

Is there a problem?

 

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

45 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

in freestyle it is...

if the score is 0-0 someone goes on the clock

this is folkstyle

[PSULou64]

Ok, but if you're not trying to turn, you're riding and if you're riding, you're stalling?  You can't have it both ways, right?  Holding a guy down is far easier than turning him but it's obvious to everyone, including the refs, when one is being done over the other. 

Hanging on to get the precious minute of riding time is clearly different than trying to turn a guy.  Don't you feel like it's a conflict if interest to have both avenues trying to be worked at the same time?

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

If we went there next year who would be the first wrestler to win by techfall via pushout only?

Also would Wkn replace his favorite term pinfall with pushout?   

It’d probably end up something like pushoutofthecircleonthemat.

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, Major Kong said:

Falling asleep with two legs in.

The Aaron Nagao special

[Caveira]

Freestyle national attendance at wtt / ott or other events should be weighed vs ncaa tournament attendance…. That or other big tourney attendance.  I would bet the Illinois state high school tourney has more fans show up vs wtt/ott/us open.  One dominates the other every time.  Make ncaa wrestling pure freestyle rules and the sport will decline faster than we think it is.  

Fat bald old people wrestled freestyle too.  Some children forget that.  

don’t take my word for it.  I’m just a dude on a message board.  Take one of the recent goats opinion on the subject.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3s54W1/

[JuanMogen]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

 

Fat bald old people wrestled freestyle too. 

And angry

[AgaveMaria]

12 hours ago, ionel said:

If you are on top, winning the match and the bottom man can't get off bottom then you must be stalling cause you aren't giving the other guy a chance to beat you, thus the ref will give him a chance - stalling!  

Just as we had it in the 60's - if you aren't working towards a pin you are stalling.

It really is that simple. Holding on, building riding time - call it whatever you want. If you are not working for a pin you are stalling.

[wrestle87]

It seems to be that stalling calls get called on the top man in direct relation to the amount of fear the referee has instilled in him by the home crowd.  The away wrestler is the only one who will get called for stalling on top in this scenario.

Aka, refs call whatever the hell they want, and guidance on the matter still leaves it largely in their hands.  Stalling on the top man(away from a counted hold) is still one of the most rare calls in the sport though.  It is a rare confluence of events that a guy can simultaneously do little enough to look like he is stalling and be strong enough to hold his opponent on the mat at the same time. 

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

17 hours ago, Dogbone said:

That was your takeaway from my comments??

Yes it was, sorry to disappoint.

[TexRef]

21 hours ago, NM1965 said:

When I wrestled back in the Pleistocene a guy was expected to work towards back points if he was on top. I've noticed a lot of guys just riding these days and not working for points. That would've been called stalling back in my day. Back then we didn't have techfalls, or 4 point nearfalls, or 3 point takedowns either. 

Was that back when the red & green lines were in the 10' circle and when the wrestling area was a square, not in a circle? 

[TexRef]

19 hours ago, ionel said:

If we went there next year who would be the first wrestler to win by techfall via pushout only?

Also would Wkn replace his favorite term pinfall with pushout?   

Would that mean that we have to officially switch over to the metric system? 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

45 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Was that back when the red & green lines were in the 10' circle and when the wrestling area was a square, not in a circle? 

I've said it before, but I wrestled in a square.  Never used the 10' apart lines, but they were on more than one mat I competed on.

I think tech fall became a thing my sophomore year.

Edited February 27 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[ionel]

46 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Would that mean that we have to officially switch over to the metric system? 

Let's hope:  10' inner circle, 100' outer, 1pt pushout, 10pt takedown, 100pt pin ...

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I've said it before, but I wrestled in a square.  Never used the 10' apart lines, but they were on more than one mat I competed on.

I think tech fall became a thing my sophomore year.

I have wrestled on the 10' red/green lines and the square. You think we have issues about what is in and what is out now, go back to the square lines! lol 

[WrestlingRash]

If you aren't trying to score, you are stalling. Riding time is a real thing, and as long as the top wrestler is working towards riding time, he isn't stalling. If a position is stagnant, stalemate it. But, you can't really call stalling on top as long as they aren't just hanging on ankles or not returning the bottom guy to the mat. Aside from those 2 situations, it is a logical fallacy to think you can be stalling on top. If you removed the riding time point, you would have a case for top stalling. Until that happens, and it won't ever happen, this is case closed. No top stalling. 

[pmilk]

As I have stated before; wrestling is about control. you score because you control the tie-ups, top position, bottom position, the setups, the timing of the move, the pace, the defense, and to an extent...the clock time, among other things. I will always disagree that if the bottom man cannot be turned, then he should get a "free up," ala freestyle. Folkstyle requires one to be competent in all three disciplines: neutral, top, bottom. There is only 7min to wrestle...how much of it is mat wrestling? So, expecting everyone to turn an opponent like an "over easy" egg is just not realistic. And just because you cannot turn him does not mean you are stalling. Besides, not your fault he sucks on bottom. Whether one has legs in, a claw, a spiral, tight waist/chop, etc., the impact is all the same and similar to what KL stated..

• 1. The bottom man gets tired from carrying his weight and the top man's 
• 2. The bottom man isn't scoring any points and the clock is running down
• 3. The bottom man gets frustrated and may walk into a setup for back points or a pin
• 4. In college, accumulation of riding time over one minute is worth a point and that can be a huge difference in the outcome of a match. 
• 5. Fatigue from not being able to get out, transfers to the feet. His reactions are slower, his anticipation is off, and if the match is close, he'll take some unnecessary shots and give up even more points. The implications are obvious. 
• 6. For the rider, this is a great way to rest and kill time. All you have to do is look busy and keep the ref happy.

The key here is LOOK BUSY...when you stop looking busy, you get called for stalling. That's what stalling on top is, or any position for that matter.

I'm on top with 30 left and a stall call. I'm catching an ankle on the whistle for the obligatory 4 count, change off to tight waist/chop/knee up the butt...let him come up a little change to claw or a spiral, he posts and I bump his elbows with my knee to flatten him out, catch his wrists and drive him over them....30 secs killed...am I stalling? Yep, I am...Can they call me? nope! I was BUSY working things. Turning him never enters my mind.  

Same situation in neutral; up by 1 with 30secs left and a stall warning...Let's say I hit a quick single and can't finish..15-20 sec have passed..stalemate...we start again, I shoot again and get stuck on a single..time runs out. Am I stalling? If it's me, personally, my answer is YEP! I'm stalling like a big turd, but they can't call me. My whole intent was to shoot and put myself in a position so I don't get countered and scored on...make it look like I'm trying to score, but I'm just killing the clock and waiting to get my hand raised. Works like a charm.

Edited February 27 by pmilk
grammatical correction

[1032004]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRash said:

If you aren't trying to score, you are stalling. Riding time is a real thing, and as long as the top wrestler is working towards riding time, he isn't stalling. If a position is stagnant, stalemate it. But, you can't really call stalling on top as long as they aren't just hanging on ankles or not returning the bottom guy to the mat. Aside from those 2 situations, it is a logical fallacy to think you can be stalling on top. If you removed the riding time point, you would have a case for top stalling. Until that happens, and it won't ever happen, this is case closed. No top stalling. 

The rulebook disagrees with you 

[PSULou64]

This was taken from the NCAA 

"To help balance the new takedown scoring rule, there also are new requirements for the top wrestler to work toward a near fall or pin. A 3-point near-fall scoring component was added. "

What exactly were the new requirements?  I haven't seen the updated rule book but they clearly state top wrestlers would have to work toward near fall or pin but.  That clearly flies in the face that merely exerting control and riding is acceptable and isn't stalling.