More cancelled student debt

[Le duke]

This wouldn't be an issue if the government and loan-takers were 'active-practicing' conservative Christians.  The country would have a monetary surplus, and people would pay their dues.  Education would also be affordable.
https://www.cofo.edu/About is an example.
The 10 commandments say you shouldn't steal (government retro program, taxes, not paying loans), covet (people spending on their covets and not paying bills, politicians going after votes), honor your parents (pay your dues), etc.  The 10 commandments do not directly help your sarcastic criticism. 
The New Testament contains teachings that emphasize compassion, generosity, and helping those in need.  This is a bit open to interpretation.  My idea of help is to put these people through educational programs that teach them how to live within their means and honor their financial obligations.  I can pay taxes for that.  Full loan forgiveness is the opposite of helping these people.
The NT also says “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Matthew 22:21.  The bible says a lot about personal responsibility... fiscal responsibility.

If the lenders were REALLY Christians or Muslims, they wouldn’t charge any interest, either.

I can quote the Bible, too.

Leviticus 25:35-37. “Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit".

Interest makes up the majority of the debt for a lot of people.


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[Le duke]

The GI Bill is not loan forgiveness.
I support affordable education, but loan forgiveness in its current format, with this much national debt, with our current taxes, with the mother milk enablement, is unacceptable.

How do you feel about the Student Loan Repayment Program?


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[jross]

3 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

I know! These stoopid libruls won't catch a thing! Not like us over leveraged "farmers" who somehow blame Carter for this failures.

I'm enraged!

 

I find it interesting that the mocking version of BB is a better BB.

Spoiler

 

[Ban Basketball]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

 

I find it interesting that the mocking version of BB is a better BB.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Of course I'm better! I'm now converted and speaking the language of true Christian conservative Repulicantism!

MEGA!

[jross]

31 minutes ago, Le duke said:

If the lenders were REALLY Christians or Muslims, they wouldn’t charge any interest, either.

I can quote the Bible, too.

Leviticus 25:35-37. “Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit".

Interest makes up the majority of the debt for a lot of people.

 

So, do we agree?  I see no contradiction and I'm surprised.?.?

Old Testament laws were given to the ancient Israelites within a specific historical and cultural context and may not directly apply to Christians today.  Still its a great line about compassion for the poor.

The Parable of the Talents, found in Matthew 25:14-30 is brought up.  A master trusts his servants with different amounts of money (talents) before going away on a journey. Two servants invest the money and earn a return, while one buries his talent and earns nothing.  The master is unhappy with the one who earned nothing, takes his money back, and calls him lazy.  He gave more to those who made money.

I believe that interest on loans can be done ethically and responsibly in a Christian manner.  This might be a floor of 0% to annual inflation % and a max of something 10% or less.  It is unChristian to have small print and 20%+ interest rates on late payments like predatory lenders do.

I'm good with interest breaks for those in true need.

I'm not good with redistributing, say, a $500K loan itself to taxpayers.  

On my earlier comment regarding 'not a problem if Christian'... I'd also say that a true conservative Christian wouldn't put the borrower at blind risk of $400K in loans without due diligence/support.  This might involve assessing the borrower's ability to repay, offering financial education and counseling, and ensuring that the loan terms are fair and transparent.

----

Aside.  I don't know Muslim beliefs very well, but I have gotten to know a few through daily teamwork.  A good Muslim man I know has refused to invest in stock or purchase a house because of his beliefs.

Edited February 22 by jross
clarity in the Aside.

[Paul158]

I believe this a huge effort by the Biden administration to get the young vote and a few older ones. So, this is buying votes on steroids. Which is illegal. Trying to frame this around helping the irresponsible poor college graduates who never took a BASIC ECONOMICS class 101. They now how spent 50K,!00K ,200K on a useless sometimes unmarketable degree. This should be a teachable moment for them as President Obama would say. How do this highly educated people learn if there are no consequences for their very poor choices. Some of us could possibly go along with a risk shared proposal. Student pays 70 percent, school pays 25 percent and government pays 5 percent. This would stop the colleges from offering hundreds of pointless, useless degrees. Maybe colleges could think about and in act useful and affordable education. If colleges still want to offer the useless degrees, then the college pays 100 percent of the cost. So, to sum this up this is vote buying plain and simple. Which is illegal.

Edited February 22 by Paul158
missed a word

[Le duke]

So, do we agree?  I see no contradiction and I'm surprised.?.?
Old Testament laws were given to the ancient Israelites within a specific historical and cultural context and may not directly apply to Christians today.  Still its a great line about compassion for the poor.
The Parable of the Talents, found in Matthew 25:14-30 is brought up.  A master trusts his servants with different amounts of money (talents) before going away on a journey. Two servants invest the money and earn a return, while one buries his talent and earns nothing.  The master is unhappy with the one who earned nothing, takes his money back, and calls him lazy.  He gave more to those who made money.
I believe that interest on loans can be done ethically and responsibly in a Christian manner.  This might be a floor of 0% to annual inflation % and a max of something 10% or less.  It is unChristian to have small print and 20%+ interest rates on late payments like predatory lenders do.
I'm good with interest breaks for those in true need.
I'm not good with redistributing, say, a $500K loan itself to taxpayers.  
On my earlier comment regarding 'not a problem if Christian'... I'd also say that a true conservative Christian wouldn't put the borrower at blind risk of $400K in loans without due diligence/support.  This might involve assessing the borrower's ability to repay, offering financial education and counseling, and ensuring that the loan terms are fair and transparent.
----
Aside.  I don't know Muslim beliefs very well, but I have gotten to know a few through daily teamwork.  A good Muslim man I know has refused to invest in stock or purchase a house because of his beliefs.

Somewhere between 30 and 40% of doctors pursue loan forgiveness.

70% of them have debt after graduating.

More than 20% have $300,000 or more in debt.

Do you want to live in a country where only the wealthy can go to medical school?

Or do you want smart passionate, talented people, who might not be able to rely on First Bank of Mommy and Daddy to pay their way?

My neighbor is the managing doctor of the ER in a mountain community here in CO. She has personally saved hundreds of lives. She has also had her loans forgiven. Is she worthy enough?


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[jross]

28 minutes ago, Le duke said:

How do you feel about the Student Loan Repayment Program?

Here is my thought process about private companies repaying student loans for an employee.

1. Compared to what (not repaying)?
   • Turnover of talent.
   • Stagnant education versus growth
2. At what cost to whom?
   • Higher expense and less profit to the company owner and shareholders.
   • Colleagues are blocked for promotions, raises, bonuses, etc., when there is insufficient profit to reward merit.
   • Managers struggling to build and retain talented teams.
3. What hard evidence?
   • <pass for now>

Employee incentive is good unless it has negative consequences on peers.  It is a hard sell for a company in-debt with no path to profit.

I like the idea of employee incentives for any company, including government-owned companies.

But I have so much more scrutiny on the government-owned company because I am funding it.

Should the government company even exist?

Is the government company providing more value than it costs?

What is the impact on my well-being to support even more loan repayments?  Did I have a say in it? (taxes, inflation, purchase power)

Can the government afford it?  Is it profitable, or is there a path to profit? Is it in debt? Is loan repayment super necessary?  Was a budget approved and is the spend in budget?

[Le duke]

Here is my thought process about private companies repaying student loans for an employee.

1. Compared to what (not repaying)?
   • Turnover of talent.
   • Stagnant education versus growth
2. At what cost to whom?
   • Higher expense and less profit to the company owner and shareholders.
   • Colleagues are blocked for promotions, raises, bonuses, etc., when there is insufficient profit to reward merit.
   • Managers struggling to build and retain talented teams.
3. What hard evidence?

Employee incentive is good unless it has negative consequences on peers.  It is a hard sell for a company in-debt with no path to profit.
I like the idea of employee incentives for any company, including government-owned companies.
But I have so much more scrutiny on the government-owned company because I am funding it.
Should the government company even exist?
Is the government company providing more value than it costs?
What is the impact on my well-being to support even more loan repayments?  Did I have a say in it? (taxes, inflation, purchase power)
Can the government afford it?  Is it profitable, or is there a path to profit? Is it in debt? Is loan repayment super necessary?  Was a budget approved and is the spend in budget?

Huh?

Who said anything about a private company? Profit? Raises? Bonuses? Shareholders?

The discussion was about the government paying off or otherwise erasing the debt of a person who had performed public service. The GI Bill. Doctors and teachers pursuing loan forgiveness.

https://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/student-loan-repayment.html?amp


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[ionel]

32 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

Somewhere between 30 and 40% of doctors pursue loan forgiveness.

70% of them have debt after graduating.

More than 20% have $300,000 or more in debt.

Do you want to live in a country where only the wealthy can go to medical school?

Or do you want smart passionate, talented people, who might not be able to rely on First Bank of Mommy and Daddy to pay their way?

My neighbor is the managing doctor of the ER in a mountain community here in CO. She has personally saved hundreds of lives. She has also had her loans forgiven. Is she worthy enough?


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Curious what mountain community?  Also isn't there a specific program for doctors serving in rural or low population areas?

[jross]

10 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Somewhere between 30 and 40% of doctors pursue loan forgiveness.

70% of them have debt after graduating.

More than 20% have $300,000 or more in debt.

Do you want to live in a country where only the wealthy can go to medical school?

Or do you want smart passionate, talented people, who might not be able to rely on First Bank of Mommy and Daddy to pay their way?

My neighbor is the managing doctor of the ER in a mountain community here in CO. She has personally saved hundreds of lives. She has also had her loans forgiven. Is she worthy enough?

 

I want to live in a country where people pay their dues regardless of merit. 

Consider this hypothetical: someone only pays a fraction of their massive loan over many years. What does that say about their responsibility and decision-making? Would you trust them to care for you?

Extreme loan forgiveness only exacerbates the problem. It drives up education costs, feeding into bloated administrative structures and inflated salaries. Let supply and demand dictate prices. The market will adjust if there's a shortage of doctors in the mountains. Government intervention distorts the system and burdens taxpayers. 

Otherwise, who decides?  I've personally trained about 50 new engineers, so should my house loan be paid off?  I've paid month after month on house loans for 20 years.  Without this burden and the responsibility to help with my children's education, I would start a business and create new jobs.

[jross]

25 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Huh?

Who said anything about a private company? Profit? Raises? Bonuses? Shareholders?

The discussion was about the government paying off or otherwise erasing the debt of a person who had performed public service. The GI Bill. Doctors and teachers pursuing loan forgiveness.

https://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/student-loan-repayment.html?amp

Thanks for the clarification.  The Military SLRP is a funded and capped repayment program.  I also support the GI bill as mentioned earlier.  National security... 

The military is overinvested, but this incentive is not one.

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Curious what mountain community?  Also isn't there a specific program for doctors serving in rural or low population areas?

Yes there is.

[Paul158]

I don't think the posters on here are aware that the American taxpayer already pays billions of dollars in financial aid every year towards higher education. Over 12 million students get financial aid every year. It's probably upwards of 50 billion dollars. Colleges themselves receive billions of dollars. Maybe someone could help find exact figures.

[JimmyBT]

Forgive the interest NOT the loan.  Anyone that can’t figure out how to pay back what they borrowed, without interest isn’t someone that deserves help. 

Edited February 22 by JimmyBT

[ionel]

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

My neighbor is the managing doctor of the ER in a mountain community here in CO. She has personally saved hundreds of lives. She has also had her loans forgiven. Is she worthy enough?

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First loan I every took out was for an airplane.  By participating in the organ & patient transport program should my loan have been forgiven.  Organs save lives, are pilots worthy? 

[Le duke]

51 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Forgive the interest NOT the loan.  Anyone that can’t figure out how to pay back what they borrowed, without interest isn’t someone that deserves help. 

Pretty sure that's exactly what one of Biden's EOs does. It strikes the interest, preventing the debt from growing, and caps payments at 5% of their discretionary income. 

 

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

First loan I every took out was for an airplane.  By participating in the organ & patient transport program should my loan have been forgiven.  Organs save lives, are pilots worthy? 

Did you apply? 

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

 

Did you apply? 

For what?

[Paul158]

1 hour ago, JimmyBT said:

Forgive the interest NOT the loan.  Anyone that can’t figure out how to pay back what they borrowed, without interest isn’t someone that deserves help. 

You are 100 percent correct.

[Paul158]

14 minutes ago, ionel said:

First loan I every took out was for an airplane.  By participating in the organ & patient transport program should my loan have been forgiven.  Organs save lives, are pilots worthy? 

Yes, by the standards they are advocating for. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

9 hours ago, jross said:

I want to live in a country where people pay their dues regardless of merit. 

Consider this hypothetical: someone only pays a fraction of their massive loan over many years. What does that say about their responsibility and decision-making? Would you trust them to care for you?

Extreme loan forgiveness only exacerbates the problem. It drives up education costs, feeding into bloated administrative structures and inflated salaries. Let supply and demand dictate prices. The market will adjust if there's a shortage of doctors in the mountains. Government intervention distorts the system and burdens taxpayers. 

Otherwise, who decides?  I've personally trained about 50 new engineers, so should my house loan be paid off?  I've paid month after month on house loans for 20 years.  Without this burden and the responsibility to help with my children's education, I would start a business and create new jobs.

I am a proponent of that, too. Pay your debts.

But payment sometimes comes in different forms. Sometimes payment is cash, sometimes it is goods, sometimes it is services.

We also live in a country where some necessary jobs are hard to fill. So incentives are offered to fill those jobs. Some of the loan forgiveness is just that, an incentive to get someone to do something they would not have otherwise done.

If you agree to take this undesirable job we will pay you in two ways: cash, but not a lot of it, and loan forgiveness. But to get that loan forgiveness, you must first do this thing that you do not want to do, but that serves a public good.

For this reason, I have not objected to many of the loan forgiveness programs. For the same reason, I am diametrically opposed to the original Biden plan to blanket forgive loans. That way lies madness.

[Paul158]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

For what?

For the miracle loan forgiveness plan from Washington. It's the one where the money grows on trees and there is no obligation to pay it back just because.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

For the miracle loan forgiveness plan from Washington. It's the one where the money grows on trees and there is no obligation to pay it back just because.

ahh ...

[Ban Basketball]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am a proponent of that, too. Pay your debts.

But payment sometimes comes in different forms. Sometimes payment is cash, sometimes it is goods, sometimes it is services.

We also live in a country where some necessary jobs are hard to fill. So incentives are offered to fill those jobs. Some of the loan forgiveness is just that, an incentive to get someone to do something they would not have otherwise done.

If you agree to take this undesirable job we will pay you in two ways: cash, but not a lot of it, and loan forgiveness. But to get that loan forgiveness, you must first do this thing that you do not want to do, but that serves a public good.

For this reason, I have not objected to many of the loan forgiveness programs. For the same reason, I am diametrically opposed to the original Biden plan to blanket forgive loans. That way lies madness.

Your Soros funded globalercicist!

I'm ENRAGED!

[Ban Basketball]

4 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

For the miracle loan forgiveness plan from Washington. It's the one where the money grows on trees and there is no obligation to pay it back just because.

I KNOW! These socialercicists keep giving out this welfare, NEVER expecking money back!

Our corportations, farmers, and billionaire investors NEVER get these things! They earn it the HARD way, not like Soros!