The_KC_Godfather Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Looking at the strong classes coming into Mizzou over the next two seasons, would it make sense for Smith to redshirt Keegan and Rocky next year to potentially have a powerhouse of a team in 25/26? Don't know that it matters with PSU always being the heir apparent to the throne, but maybe for a second place finish? They could still be very competitive with Surtin, Moore, Gioffre, Whiting and Sinclair in the lineup. Thoughts? I think it would look something like this... 24/25 Season 125: Noah Surtin (RS-SR.) 133: Kade Moore (RS-SO.) 141: Josh Edmond (RS-JR.) 149: Logan Gioffre (RS-SR.) 157: Cam Steed (RS-SO.) 165: James Conway (RS-SO.) 174: Sean Harman (RS-SR.) or Ellis Pfleger (RS-JR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-SO.) 197: Aedon Sinclair (Fr.) -- Big Board #7 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-SO.) Redshirt Mauger, Crapps, Roller, O'Toole, Elam ------------------------ 25/26 Season 125: Mack Mauger (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #74 133: Jake Crapps (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #37 141: Kade Moore (RS-JR.) 149: Josh Edmond (RS-SR.) 157: Jace Roller (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #26 165: Kollin Rath (FR.) -- Big Board #9 174: Keegan O'Toole (RS-SR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-JR.) 197: Rocky Elam (RS-SR.) 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-JR.) or Sampson Stillwell (FR.) -- Big Board #52 Redshirt Sinclair and Stillwell (maybe)
Mhlm Posted February 6 Posted February 6 I believe Stoner is working towards being the HWT. I'm pretty sure Boersma is medically retired. There has been some rumbilings of Whiting going 174 next year.
Jim L Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Having up to 6 FR (RS or true frosh), seems like a big stretch to challenge PSU or even contend for #2.
ionel Posted February 6 Posted February 6 2 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said: Looking at the strong classes coming into Mizzou over the next two seasons, would it make sense for Smith to redshirt Keegan and Rocky next year to potentially have a powerhouse of a team in 25/26? Don't know that it matters with PSU always being the heir apparent to the throne, but maybe for a second place finish? They could still be very competitive with Surtin, Moore, Gioffre, Whiting and Sinclair in the lineup. Thoughts? I think it would look something like this... You just got beat by a bunch of freshmen, sure you want to wait till they are JRs? 1 2BPE 11/17/24 SMC
nhs67 Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said: Looking at the strong classes coming into Mizzou over the next two seasons, would it make sense for Smith to redshirt Keegan and Rocky next year to potentially have a powerhouse of a team in 25/26? Don't know that it matters with PSU always being the heir apparent to the throne, but maybe for a second place finish? They could still be very competitive with Surtin, Moore, Gioffre, Whiting and Sinclair in the lineup. Thoughts? I think it would look something like this... 24/25 Season 125: Noah Surtin (RS-SR.) 133: Kade Moore (RS-SO.) 141: Josh Edmond (RS-JR.) 149: Logan Gioffre (RS-SR.) 157: Cam Steed (RS-SO.) 165: James Conway (RS-SO.) 174: Sean Harman (RS-SR.) or Ellis Pfleger (RS-JR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-SO.) 197: Aedon Sinclair (Fr.) -- Big Board #7 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-SO.) Redshirt Mauger, Crapps, Roller, O'Toole, Elam ------------------------ 25/26 Season 125: Mack Mauger (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #74 133: Jake Crapps (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #37 141: Kade Moore (RS-JR.) 149: Josh Edmond (RS-SR.) 157: Jace Roller (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #26 165: Kollin Rath (FR.) -- Big Board #9 174: Keegan O'Toole (RS-SR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-JR.) 197: Rocky Elam (RS-SR.) 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-JR.) or Sampson Stillwell (FR.) -- Big Board #52 Redshirt Sinclair and Stillwell (maybe) I think you have Rocky go up a weight after a redshirt, in that scenario, as well. His MFS career is going to be at 97 KG. Let him grow to 225-230lbs. Also, Redshirt Sinclair as well. Have Whiting/Hawkes man 184/197. Edited February 6 by nhs67 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
Dogbone Posted February 6 Posted February 6 As someone mentioned that is a lot of freshman that would not only need to be AA but high AAs to get significant points at NCAAs, but the team is probably stronger since only Surtin graduates. With NIL and transfer portal you might be able to build a stronger lineup next year with O'Toole and Rocky than the 2026 team with a lot of freshman and KOT and Rocky.
MidwestMan Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Does anyone watching Mauller and Mocco wrestle sense some HEW? The wrestlers that had the additional covid year, red shirt, etc... and still competing at the D1 level have to be a little toasty, unless they are freaks and just love the grind of wrestling. Yes I know there are several wrestlers that have used every available option to extend eligibility, but it hasn't ended well for some of these guys. My guess is Keagan and Rocky will lace em up one more year then move on. Some of these guys have been in the starting lineup forever and it's gonna feel strange when they are gone. 1
The_KC_Godfather Posted February 6 Author Posted February 6 2 hours ago, ionel said: You just got beat by a bunch of freshmen, sure you want to wait till they are JRs? Now now…
The_KC_Godfather Posted February 6 Author Posted February 6 2 hours ago, nhs67 said: I think you have Rocky go up a weight after a redshirt, in that scenario, as well. His MFS career is going to be at 97 KG. Let him grow to 225-230lbs. Also, Redshirt Sinclair as well. Have Whiting/Hawkes man 184/197. Rocky to Hwt. With Sinclair at 197 would make that lineup even stronger. And I agree it’s a lot of freshmen, but not unheard of. Wonder if Keegan and Rocky will stick around to train with the RTC? If so, I can see them being ok with redshirting. Who knows though…
KCMO2 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 5 hours ago, nhs67 said: I think you have Rocky go up a weight after a redshirt, in that scenario, as well. His MFS career is going to be at 97 KG. Let him grow to 225-230lbs. Also, Redshirt Sinclair as well. Have Whiting/Hawkes man 184/197. I know they're different wrestlers, but ask Zach what happens when you go 285 only weighing 225. Wasn't pretty. Counting HS he's been at the same weight for the last 5 years, he's not suddenly going to grow into a heavyweight. He has national championship potential at 197. And to address MM's post, I think the biggest problem with Mauller is the bump to 157 after 4 years at 149. He had an relatively easy first half of the season against weaker opponents, which made him think he could handle 157 just fine. I think he may be regretting the decision now that he's wrestling some of the top guys. Just my opinions 1
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 3 minutes ago, KCMO2 said: I know they're different wrestlers, but ask Zach what happens when you go 285 only weighing 225. Wasn't pretty. Counting HS he's been at the same weight for the last 5 years, he's not suddenly going to grow into a heavyweight. He has national championship potential at 197. And to address MM's post, I think the biggest problem with Mauller is the bump to 157 after 4 years at 149. He had an relatively easy first half of the season against weaker opponents, which made him think he could handle 157 just fine. I think he may be regretting the decision now that he's wrestling some of the top guys. Just my opinions I wasn't wanting him to fill out to HWT. I was wanting him to fill out to the weight he will me going towards for the next cycle, which is 97 KG (~213lbs). Go for 225-230lbs for safe measure. He is long. A little muscle will go a long way towards adding weight. Also in two years (2026) that 285lb weight class is going to be Feldman, Pitzer, Kueter, Carroll, Mirasola, Hopke, Mullin, etc. All these big sumbitches we have today are gone. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
The_KC_Godfather Posted February 7 Author Posted February 7 18 minutes ago, KCMO2 said: I know they're different wrestlers, but ask Zach what happens when you go 285 only weighing 225. Wasn't pretty. Counting HS he's been at the same weight for the last 5 years, he's not suddenly going to grow into a heavyweight. He has national championship potential at 197. And to address MM's post, I think the biggest problem with Mauller is the bump to 157 after 4 years at 149. He had an relatively easy first half of the season against weaker opponents, which made him think he could handle 157 just fine. I think he may be regretting the decision now that he's wrestling some of the top guys. Just my opinions I agree. Wasn’t it during Mauller’s RS year that he wrestled some open tournaments at 157 and struggled? I thought that would deter him from bumping up. He’s still listed at 149 on the roster. Is he too big to still make 149 for the second half of the season?
bnwtwg Posted February 7 Posted February 7 20 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said: 25/26 Season Are you talking about the calendar year or their ages? 1 3 i am an idiot on the internet
bnwtwg Posted February 7 Posted February 7 12 hours ago, nhs67 said: I wasn't wanting him to fill out to HWT. I was wanting him to fill out to the weight he will me going towards for the next cycle, which is 97 KG (~213lbs). Go for 225-230lbs for safe measure. He is long. A little muscle will go a long way towards adding weight. Also in two years (2026) that 285lb weight class is going to be Feldman, Pitzer, Kueter, Carroll, Mirasola, Hopke, Mullin, etc. All these big sumbitches we have today are gone. Hopke is going to be a real big sumbitch 18 hours ago, nhs67 said: His MFS career is going to be at 97 KG. Let him grow to 225-230lbs. Why wait, get onto the senior circuit while your body is young and fresh as can be at this point. Another year of grinding your body into dust via NCAA commitments is not worth it. Most guys only have until 26-28 if they are lucky. Only the rarest of rare are going past that line. 1 i am an idiot on the internet
Winners Circle Posted February 7 Posted February 7 20 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said: Looking at the strong classes coming into Mizzou over the next two seasons, would it make sense for Smith to redshirt Keegan and Rocky next year to potentially have a powerhouse of a team in 25/26? Don't know that it matters with PSU always being the heir apparent to the throne, but maybe for a second place finish? They could still be very competitive with Surtin, Moore, Gioffre, Whiting and Sinclair in the lineup. Thoughts? I think it would look something like this... 24/25 Season 125: Noah Surtin (RS-SR.) 133: Kade Moore (RS-SO.) 141: Josh Edmond (RS-JR.) 149: Logan Gioffre (RS-SR.) 157: Cam Steed (RS-SO.) 165: James Conway (RS-SO.) 174: Sean Harman (RS-SR.) or Ellis Pfleger (RS-JR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-SO.) 197: Aedon Sinclair (Fr.) -- Big Board #7 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-SO.) Redshirt Mauger, Crapps, Roller, O'Toole, Elam ------------------------ 25/26 Season 125: Mack Mauger (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #74 133: Jake Crapps (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #37 141: Kade Moore (RS-JR.) 149: Josh Edmond (RS-SR.) 157: Jace Roller (RS-FR.) -- Big Board #26 165: Kollin Rath (FR.) -- Big Board #9 174: Keegan O'Toole (RS-SR.) 184: Clayton Whitting (RS-JR.) 197: Rocky Elam (RS-SR.) 285: Ryan Boersma (RS-JR.) or Sampson Stillwell (FR.) -- Big Board #52 Redshirt Sinclair and Stillwell (maybe) Not sure I see Rath as a 165. He's pretty short.
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 8 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: Hopke is going to be a real big sumbitch He isn't that big and has problems with the big guys (Attao, Johnson?). He will be like Parris and get bigger, but he isn't near there yet. 8 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: Why wait, get onto the senior circuit while your body is young and fresh as can be at this point. Another year of grinding your body into dust via NCAA commitments is not worth it. Most guys only have until 26-28 if they are lucky. Only the rarest of rare are going past that line. Oh no, I am in agreement there. Everything I have said here is a serious hypothetical of IF him and/or O'Toole do redshirt and then come back. If he is spending the time to take a year off, why not put that focus on growing in to 97 KG? FWIW, I also hope Trumble comes back at 285lbs next year, in preparation for being 97 KG on his senior level career. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 1 minute ago, Winners Circle said: Not sure I see Rath as a 165. He's pretty short. Rath looks just like O'Toole. O'Toole was expected to be 157 but could not beat out Jacques. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
Antitroll2828 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 Is it confirmed O’Toole is coming back next year , that’ll be his 5th Ncaa tournament , even if he wins a 4th next year it shouldn’t count the same as the other 4xers
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 < - Rath.... O'Toole - > "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 Just now, Antitroll2828 said: Is it confirmed O’Toole is coming back next year , that’ll be his 5th Ncaa tournament , even if he wins a 4th next year it shouldn’t count the same as the other 4xers It will count as a 4th title. If 2021 hadn't been free he would have used his Redshirt then, so this isn't the same as Sta(l)rocci coming back. Sta(l)rocci used his proper Redshirt in 2020 and his Redshirt Frosh year in 2021. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
steamboat_charlie Posted February 7 Posted February 7 O'Toole refused a redshirt when he had the opportunity before. I don't see why he would change his tune now. Not to mention you have no idea how these freshmen will perform. It's not easy to AA in your first attempt.
Crotalus Posted February 7 Posted February 7 even if he wins a 4th next year it shouldn’t count the same as the other 4xers True. It should count for more. He effectively placed third in a redshirt season and then (hypothetically) rattled off four in a row. I'm being a bit facetious, as all 4xer runs are great for different reasons, but he still needs to win number 3 before we worry about where to rank him amongst the other guys.
Truzzcat Posted February 7 Posted February 7 13 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said: Is it confirmed O’Toole is coming back next year , that’ll be his 5th Ncaa tournament , even if he wins a 4th next year it shouldn’t count the same as the other 4xers he never red shirted aside from kyle all the other 4xers red shirted so I think it should count exactly the same
nhs67 Posted February 7 Posted February 7 57 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said: O'Toole refused a redshirt when he had the opportunity before. I don't see why he would change his tune now. Not to mention you have no idea how these freshmen will perform. It's not easy to AA in your first attempt. Eh, this isn't exactly telling the truth of the matter. 2021 was a free year, so using a redshirt or not didn't or wasn't going to matter. He chose to use the free year for his team. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
Sam Herring Bishop McCort, Pennsylvania Class of 2026 Committed to Penn State Projected Weight: 141, 149
Luke Murray Peninsula Catholic, Virginia Class of 2025 Committed to Gardner-Webb Projected Weight: 157, 165
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