If Penn State shuts out Iowa, are the Brands officially on the hot seat?

[VakAttack]

4 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

I am by no means an Iowa hater I will probably be rooting for them in most of the matches Friday, but I have been of the opinion for awhile that the Brands should go regardless of the outcome of this dual. I feel like they have not done a great job of developing guys when you compare them to a program like PSU or ohio state or even a mizzou or NC state. They have a top recruiting class every year but a lot of those guys seem to stay at a relatively similar level that they came in at perhaps im being too critical. When you couple that though with the ferrari situation I just felt like that was a terrible decision all together and everyone seemed to know that.

Obviously they're not doing as well as Penn State.  For the sake of this post, I'll concede development on Mizzou and NC State, even though neither team has consistently outperformed Iowa.  But Ohio State?  GTFOH.  They have more resources than everybody, and still Iowa has better results, and there's no evidence of Tom Ryan and Co. developing athletes better than Iowa.  I'd argue tOSU has underperformed what should be expected of them.

[jmoney]

If Nvidia falls 50% over next 18 months will they can their CEO who has created 1200% growth in 5 years? Answer: unlikely. 

[Richferg]

23 hours ago, VakAttack said:

They won a team title two years ago and have taken third and second since then.  People have got to stop the madness.

You mean they won a title on Penn State’s reload year, with 5 PA kids in the starting line up. Iowa kids are more likely to get hurt than win a national title. Name an Iowa wrestler in the last 10 years who got better while they were in college. But No, they aren’t on the hot seat. 

[VakAttack]

17 minutes ago, Richferg said:

You mean they won a title on Penn State’s reload year, with 5 PA kids in the starting line up. Iowa kids are more likely to get hurt than win a national title. Name an Iowa wrestler in the last 10 years who got better while they were in college. But No, they aren’t on the hot seat. 

Just from the last two years, you have Drake Ayala, Max Murin,  Cobe Siebrecht, and Nelson Brands.  Going back to the year before, you have Austin Desanto, Kaleb Young, Michael Kemerer, and Jacob Warner.  All got undeniably better while they were in college.

They won a title and were a heavy favorite for a second prior to the COVID cancellation.  Are those both Penn State reload years?

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, Richferg said:

You mean they won a title on Penn State’s reload year, with 5 PA kids in the starting line up. Iowa kids are more likely to get hurt than win a national title. Name an Iowa wrestler in the last 10 years who got better while they were in college. But No, they aren’t on the hot seat. 

Every year is a reload year. The nature of collegiate sports.

And Iowa has been the clear second best team since 2010. And in Brands' Iowa tenure B.C. they were clearly top dog.

And from 2007 - 2023 they have nothing to be ashamed of (or if they do, every other team save one has more to be ashamed of).

 

And off the top of my head I will go with Austin DeSanto, Max Murin, Zach Glazier, Pat Lugo. I am sure there are a lot more.

[JuanMogen]

On 2/6/2024 at 3:05 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

What if Spencer retired tomorrow and said, "I want the head coach position."  How would Hawkeye nation react?  Tell him to wait until the Brands retire?

Lee would have to win the wrestle off for the spot first. 

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

And off the top of my head I will go with Austin DeSanto, Max Murin, Zach Glazier, Pat Lugo. I am sure there are a lot more.

Two other excellent examples I forgot.  Trust me, I'm as frustrated as anyone about how Penn State has separated themselves, and I want Iowa to be back at the top, but I don't see what hire out there is likely to produce that or be any better than the Brands right now.

[JuanMogen]

6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Just from the last two years, you have Drake Ayala, Max Murin,  Cobe Siebrecht, and Nelson Brands.  Going back to the year before, you have Austin Desanto, Kaleb Young, Michael Kemerer, and Jacob Warner.  All got undeniably better while they were in college.

They won a title and were a heavy favorite for a second prior to the COVID cancellation.  Are those both Penn State reload years?

It’s a bit of a gamble saying Nelson got better. He’s not in the line up, so not sure I would bet on it. Not going to roll those dice. 

[ionel]

1 minute ago, JuanMogen said:

It’s a bit of a gamble saying Nelson got better. He’s not in the line up, so not sure I would bet on it. Not going to roll those dice. 

[TylerDurden]

Good lord.

Reading through this thread makes me realize how much the internet has skewed our views of everything, glamorizing hot take, knee-jerk reactions to anything that doesn't result in the perfect outcome. 

You aren't a serious person if you're calling for Brands' job. You just aren't. 

He's been at Iowa 17 years and has never finished lower than 8th at the NCAA tournament and that happened in his first year. 

Since then, he's never finished lower than 5th (and that was only once) and has four national titles - and probably missed out on a fifth during the COVID season. 

I think he behaves like a complete idiot and has the reasoning skills of a 7-year-old, but you're out of your damn mind if you're trying to run him off. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, JuanMogen said:

It’s a bit of a gamble saying Nelson got better. He’s not in the line up, so not sure I would bet on it. Not going to roll those dice. 

[JuanMogen]

Just now, ionel said:

Just saying…maybe we could ask him what the line is on him improving in college or not. 

[ionel]

1 minute ago, JuanMogen said:

Just saying…maybe we could ask him what the line is on him improving in college or not. 

I can't tell if you are over or under rating him.  

[VakAttack]

5 minutes ago, JuanMogen said:

It’s a bit of a gamble saying Nelson got better. He’s not in the line up, so not sure I would bet on it. Not going to roll those dice. 

He took 5th in the country last year.  Considering where he started, yes, he improved greatly.

[HungusMungus]

On 2/6/2024 at 9:09 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

First off, I think a Penn State shutout of Iowa is EXTREMELY unlikely.  The dual is at CHA which mean Iowa will get some benefit from the refs.  I think they win at least 4 of 10 matches (Ayala, Woods, Franek, Caliendo).

However, if Penn State managed to shut out the Hawks this would be a first...and also two huge losses in a row for Iowa.  Would this actually cause the Brands' seats to become warm or even hot?

if Iowa shuts out Penn State will Dogs and Cats start getting along? Will Cael be on the hot seat? 

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He took 5th in the country last year.  

But did he win any in the city ... say Vegas?

[jmoney]

2 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

Good lord.

Reading through this thread makes me realize how much the internet has skewed our views of everything, glamorizing hot take, knee-jerk reactions to anything that doesn't result in the perfect outcome. 

You aren't a serious person if you're calling for Brands' job. You just aren't. 

He's been at Iowa 17 years and has never finished lower than 8th at the NCAA tournament and that happened in his first year. 

Since then, he's never finished lower than 5th (and that was only once) and has four national titles - and probably missed out on a fifth during the COVID season. 

I think he behaves like a complete idiot and has the reasoning skills of a 7-year-old, but you're out of your damn mind if you're trying to run him off. 

This 71 year old senior I know got his first email-texting cell phone around 2017. He went from expecting to hear from me biweekly over email to expecting me to communicate bidaily. The head coaching jobs of the NFL are good examples of the immediacy demanded.

[Richferg]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Just from the last two years, you have Drake Ayala, Max Murin,  Cobe Siebrecht, and Nelson Brands.  Going back to the year before, you have Austin Desanto, Kaleb Young, Michael Kemerer, and Jacob Warner.  All got undeniably better while they were in college.

They won a title and were a heavy favorite for a second prior to the COVID cancellation.  Are those both Penn State reload years?

Sorry, but you have your years mixed up. There was no championship in 2020, cancelled by Covid. And Iowa would have been the favorite, based on beating Penn State in the dual meet. But the dual turned on Kemerer upsetting Mark Hall. Hall returned the favor in the Big 10’s. PSU would have gone into NCAA’s with RBY, Lee, Joseph, Hall, Brooks, and an uncanny ability to peak in March. Iowa won Nat’s in 2021, deservedly. 

[ionel]

3 hours ago, JuanMogen said:

Lee would have to win the wrestle off for the spot first. 

The job is Ferrari's unless Lee can out dead lift him.  AJ is ready to move on, he's never been pinned and never lost an NCAA tournament.  This is the guy Jimmy & Iowa want to replace Brands now.  

[Idaho]

3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Just from the last two years, you have Drake Ayala, Max Murin,  Cobe Siebrecht, and Nelson Brands.  Going back to the year before, you have Austin Desanto, Kaleb Young, Michael Kemerer, and Jacob Warner.  All got undeniably better while they were in college.

They won a title and were a heavy favorite for a second prior to the COVID cancellation.  Are those both Penn State reload years?

Boom goes the dynamite!

[VakAttack]

30 minutes ago, Richferg said:

Sorry, but you have your years mixed up. There was no championship in 2020, cancelled by Covid. And Iowa would have been the favorite, based on beating Penn State in the dual meet. But the dual turned on Kemerer upsetting Mark Hall. Hall returned the favor in the Big 10’s. PSU would have gone into NCAA’s with RBY, Lee, Joseph, Hall, Brooks, and an uncanny ability to peak in March. Iowa won Nat’s in 2021, deservedly. 

Iowa was the heavy favorite going into NCAAs because they were by far the best team, best Penn State in the dual AND beat the brakes off Penn State at Big 10s, where Penn State took 4th.  They were much heavier favorites than the year they won.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

41 minutes ago, jmoney said:

This 71 year old senior I know got his first email-texting cell phone around 2017. He went from expecting to hear from me biweekly over email to expecting me to communicate bidaily. The head coaching jobs of the NFL are good examples of the immediacy demanded.

What does anything you said have anything to do with anything? 

[jmoney]

5 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

What does anything you said have anything to do with anything? 

I agree with TylerDurden and Vak that people's perceptions are skewed to ask "what have you done for me lately more than ever." It explains exaggerated feelings with increasing regularity prematurely. My example of a senior becoming conditioned like a Pavlov's dog in just 6 years' time is a testament to the expectant observer's state of mind.

[TylerDurden]

4 hours ago, Richferg said:

You mean they won a title on Penn State’s reload year, with 5 PA kids in the starting line up. Iowa kids are more likely to get hurt than win a national title. Name an Iowa wrestler in the last 10 years who got better while they were in college. But No, they aren’t on the hot seat. 

I realize this post likely came a burner account for one of the trolls, but GTFO with nonsense. 

This sounds like the type of stuff you hear from that one dad who sucked as an athlete, almost earning a high school varsity letter, but surely knows what it takes to be a champion because he watched a lot of self-help videos on YouTube and once spent $500 on a leadership conference. 

[dragit]

It has been brought up multiple times, but I do think the 2020 canceled NCAAs remains a highly underrated fact in a discussion like this.  If the tournament is held, then Iowa almost surely wins, which means two in a row, with the 2020 win being a very big deal in front of a giant crowd at a football stadium in an unprecedented showcase event.  This would have a big influence in how people view the Brands's performance, and it seems to me would have been a big help in recruiting.  During that window, it did seem like they were closing the gap on Penn State pretty substantially.  And frankly, the continuation of Covid took luster off their single team championship in 2021 -- short season, almost no fans at the arena, etc.

I say this as someone who thinks there are definitely some points to raise questions about the progress of the Iowa program (Ferrari/Downey dalliances, cautious style, injuries, losing some key guidepost matches at NCAAs, for starters).  If not for Covid, the perception would have to be a lot different, the pandemic slowed some serious momentum.

Furthermore, I agree with several posts regarding the general point of how much better do you think things will be if you jump to that greener grass on the other side of the fence.  Who's yard of green grass are you confident will produce better results than the very good results of the last 16 years, including what should fairly be viewed as including two recent national championships?