Creeps in the wrestling community - What can we do about it?

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

 

I respectfully disagree with you. There are pedophiles everywhere. Churches, schools, etc. Claiming that singlets is the reason there are pedophiles videoing kids matches/reffing is like claiming that women get raped because of the clothes they wear. I say BS!!!! The reason there's pedophiles around our sport is because they're freaking sick in the head, it has nothing to do with the singlet. Period. Don't justify these people being sick in the head by giving them the out of 'singlets'. I don't buy it.

Getting rid of singlets won’t get rid of pedophiles, but I bet it would make it a lot harder for them to enjoy wrestling, and for this creep to profit off them.  You sure you’re not him?

[BAC]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

All this shit and in the end nothing will get accomplished or if it does it’ll take years while clown continues to operate .. orrr 3 fathers or brothers in masks run into this guy throw him a beating , make him piss blood for awhile and see how many more tournaments this weirdo pops up after that

Sounds lovely, but even if the tough-guy approach were legal, its sort if like saying you can solve the drug problem by taking out a single drug dealer.  It won't work if the source is still there and the consumers are still there.  You're still going to have hundreds of thousands of people scouring the internet for this stuff.  You don't think someone else will come along and fill the need?

My opinion on preventative measures:

1.  This should be seen as, first and foremost, a child protection issue.  You're never going to stop a certain subset of people from salivating over buff dudes.  Get over it.  Anyone out there who *hasn't* jacked off to a picture of a sexy female athlete? I doubt it.  I'm all for keeping the creeps out of *all* events, but focus on keeping kids from being exploited.  

2.  The main issue is too many unvetted people getting photo/video credentials. Youth events should be, by default, no photo or video allowed, unless (a) you're the kid's parent, or (b) you have the written consent of the parent, or (c) you were specifically granted credentials by the event organizer, which should require a showing that they are a legitimate media organization.  The question no one is asking -- but should -- is why on earth is some guy who has nothing more than a Youtube channel being allowed to film, especially in a youth setting?  Everyone knows Youtube pays by the view.  Take a guess what drives view counts.  Event sponsors should condition their support on having clear and restrictive policies in place. 

3.  In the youth context, even sponsors should insist on retaining ownership of the copyright on all photos and video taken from their event.  In other words, they condition their granting of recording/photo rights to them signing a document stating that (a) their product is a work-for-hire, and (b) the event organizer (e.g. USAW) grants a license, but ownership.  This way, the organizer retains the ability to police how the videos/photos are used -- and, when they appear to be drawing the wrong crowd, you can do a DMCA takedown request its gone in a matter of days.  Perhaps exceptions can be made for certain reputable organizations regarding ownership, but it is crazy that sponsors aren't retaining control to police the misuse of photos and videos taken at their events with their permission.

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, Idaho said:

Yeah, we would never have a political group that would use illegal status to actually heighten a crime...

This is...amazing. Yeah, if you go after a minority JUST because they're a minority, that's a hate crime. 

Why it was thrown in like it was somehow less serious because the person who was hit here was an "illegal alien," is ***ducking** weird. 

And your response is this...? Their using the person's status as an illegal alien to try and LESSEN the severity of the crime(which I'm also skeptical given the claims of the details).

[BAC]

52 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Youtube tells you exactly where your videos are embedded as a content creator. All law enforcement would have to do is 1. get that info from youtube.  2.  Search this person's computer and internet history to show he's posting stuff there. 

The real question is why doesn't youtube do this and then report it to law enforcement? Why has youtube allowed this crap on their website for so long? And why can't parents sue youtube for hosting the content and profiting off of it.  Yes, Youtube has made money off of this sick shit, but for some ***ducked** up reason isn't allowed to be held accountable for it. 

YouTube won't do anything without a subpoena.  And they're immune under Sec. 230 of the CDA.  That's why I phrased my post in terms of info you need to collect and give to investigators to arm them.

[Antitroll2828]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

This is...amazing. Yeah, if you go after a minority JUST because they're a minority, that's a hate crime. 

Why it was thrown in like it was somehow less serious because the person who was hit here was an "illegal alien," is ***ducking** weird. 

And your response is this...? Their using the person's status as an illegal alien to try and LESSEN the severity of the crime(which I'm also skeptical given the claims of the details).

Bro this post is about weirdos taking pictures of children wrestling and posting them for some profit from pedos and you re held up on my story like shut the hell up,   and the point was that a kid got more time and had his life ruined worse then a serial kid rapist who preyed on girls for a decade because the laws against predators are a joke , the kid hit someone who was riding a bike in the dark on a highway going the wrong way who was committing a felony (his presence here illegally was a felony) and that kid got more time in a harder prison then a rapist , stay on topic 

[BAC]

5 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

 

I respectfully disagree with you. There are pedophiles everywhere. Churches, schools, etc. Claiming that singlets is the reason there are pedophiles videoing kids matches/reffing is like claiming that women get raped because of the clothes they wear. I say BS!!!! The reason there's pedophiles around our sport is because they're freaking sick in the head, it has nothing to do with the singlet. Period. Don't justify these people being sick in the head by giving them the out of 'singlets'. I don't buy it.

That is awfully naive.

Do you see as many creepy videographers lining up at youth judo, karate, boxing tournaments?  How many Youtube sites are out there with close-ups of those competitors?  Show me the comment section where some perv is saying "Dang, little Johnny looks sexy in that baggy gi."

Now look at the Youtube website that everyone's talking about. Click the "popular" tab, so you see the most-viewed videos first... over a dozen with a million views.  What do all those videos stills/thumbnails have in common?  Besides almost all being little-known youth wrestlers, almost all under-18 males in singlets.  What body anatomy is visible in outline form, front and center, in them?

Now take a wild guess.  Why do you THINK these videos have so many views?

I'm sure there'd be some pervs around the sport no matter what, and I'm not saying moving away from singlets would be a cure-all.  I'm sure it wouldn't be. But if you think the choice of attire has nothing to do with the attention our sport gets from this segment of the population, your head is in the sand.

Admitting this is most definitely NOT justifying the predators, nor is it blaming the victim.  It is simply stating a fact. Attire choice influences decisions.  It doesn't justify those decisions, but it influences them.  

What you choose to do with that information is up to you.  If you want to say "we shouldn't have to change our attire just to keep the pervs away," go for it.  But don't pretend it isn't influencing their behavior when it obviously is.  

Edited January 2 by BAC

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

 

I respectfully disagree with you. There are pedophiles everywhere. Churches, schools, etc. Claiming that singlets is the reason there are pedophiles videoing kids matches/reffing is like claiming that women get raped because of the clothes they wear. I say BS!!!! The reason there's pedophiles around our sport is because they're freaking sick in the head, it has nothing to do with the singlet. Period. Don't justify these people being sick in the head by giving them the out of 'singlets'. I don't buy it.

Eh, I kinda agree with you, but I think your logic is a bit flawed. It DOES have something to do with the singlet or they'd be just as interested in watching Hockey or Basketball. 

I'd guess it'd be similar to girls' Volleyball(or more likely private school uniforms). 

 

I don't like that the solution is to not wear Singlets, but maybe you leave that to the kids, or you give the parents the option through HS? I don't know what the answer is. Hell, I don't even see the problem...I'm not gonna go looking too hard for it either as...that feels strange also.

I saw the names, I searched them on YT. I saw a lot of College Wrestling where you see a pretty clear outline, but I haven't seen enough where I can tell it's intentional. That's on the Midwest Wrestling. But I have only watched a couple. 

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, BAC said:

YouTube won't do anything without a subpoena.  And they're immune under Sec. 230 of the CDA.  That's why I phrased my post in terms of info you need to collect and give to investigators to arm them.

Yeah I know. My post wasn’t clear. I wasn’t asking what part of the law protects YouTube from liability. I’m asking why it is still such a blanket protection. 

[Husker_Du]

According to Kozak, his vids are uploaded/embedded on porn sites.

Additionally, i'm pretty sure they are linked on kiddie/gay porn message boards. 

and you don't get those kind of view counts without something like that.

i talked about it on a show in the spring and promptly got a call from his 'lawyer-friend' who tried telling me it was all coincidental.

i said 'is it just a coincidence that all the thumbnails are crotch shots or humping? no sprawls or leg attacks'

two days later the thumbnails were all changed. 

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Bro this post is about weirdos taking pictures of children wrestling and posting them for some profit from pedos and you re held up on my story like shut the hell up,   and the point was that a kid got more time and had his life ruined worse then a serial kid rapist who preyed on girls for a decade because the laws against predators are a joke , the kid hit someone who was riding a bike in the dark on a highway going the wrong way who was committing a felony (his presence here illegally was a felony) and that kid got more time in a harder prison then a rapist , stay on topic 

I'm staying on topic. You came up with this ridiculous story about a drunk driver and tried to somehow mitigate what he did with..."facts," that I am skeptical of and then you continue to add that he was illegal(NOT a felony). 

YOU made it about how killing someone who wasn't an American Citizen in this Country(again, if that's even the case) a lessor crime than a citizen(as you again reiterate by claiming he's a felon). 

Also, "held up on [your] story?" Story does sound like a good descriptor, but I posted once about it?

[scourge165]

42 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

According to Kozak, his vids are uploaded/embedded on porn sites.

Additionally, i'm pretty sure they are linked on kiddie/gay porn message boards. 

and you don't get those kind of view counts without something like that.

i talked about it on a show in the spring and promptly got a call from his 'lawyer-friend' who tried telling me it was all coincidental.

i said 'is it just a coincidence that all the thumbnails are crotch shots or humping? no sprawls or leg attacks'

two days later the thumbnails were all changed. 

Well...then you've at least done something about it.

I've only seen College kids on there...which is bad enough, but I imagine there are a lot of kids(as in young boys)?

I also went into the comments and saw someone talking about how they never Wrestled or Coached, but don't like the coach yelling. That was...odd. 

So is this guy a pervert or is he just enabling perverts to try and make money off of them? 

The later doesn't excuse shit, but I wonder if he's a danger for the children he's around(sans the Camera). 

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It’s so simple, quit making our sport so easy to sexualize and make fun of….

I think you're oversimplifying it. I don't think people with that type of brain are going to be turned off by the sport if guys are wearing shorts and then an under-armour shirt. 

But shit, I guess after seeing they're literally putting it on porn sites, it should be an option for HS and above. I just didn't like Wrestling someone in shorts or in a shirt...but I(we) all practiced with guys wearing sweatshirts and shit like that. You might get a finger caught in there every once in a while, but that's a helluva lot better than seeing young kids in JHS on porn sites because they have both legs in and that's...something that excites a brain that's just wired wrong. 

[billyhoyle]

9 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

All this shit and in the end nothing will get accomplished or if it does it’ll take years while clown continues to operate .. orrr 3 fathers or brothers in masks run into this guy throw him a beating , make him piss blood for awhile and see how many more tournaments this weirdo pops up after that

You keep posting that this vigilante approach solves the problem, which sounds tough on the internet, but in reality those  people would go to jail too.  I don't see you volunteering for that, and most people wouldn't either, which is why your solution doesn't work. Travis Bickle isn't going to help.

There is already a blueprint to stop this, which is the legal system. And yes, civil and criminal cases have impacted the way organizations like the catholic church, boy scouts, and schools/universities deal with abuse.  So the only way to actually solve this is to ask first of all if the people who are profiting can be held criminally and civilly accountable under current law.  And if not (as is the case for not being able to sue Youtube and other corporations profiting), work to change laws. 

Edited January 2 by billyhoyle

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

According to Kozak, his vids are uploaded/embedded on porn sites.

Additionally, i'm pretty sure they are linked on kiddie/gay porn message boards. 

and you don't get those kind of view counts without something like that.

i talked about it on a show in the spring and promptly got a call from his 'lawyer-friend' who tried telling me it was all coincidental.

i said 'is it just a coincidence that all the thumbnails are crotch shots or humping? no sprawls or leg attacks'

two days later the thumbnails were all changed. 

Thanks for your efforts.  I assume they have to prove that he was the one posting the links, no?

[juniorvarsity]

You guys need to stop talking about Congress and the first amendment. We are the wrestling community. We cannot change the law fast enough.

Get this man on the Permanently Ineligible USA Wrestling Member List. Once he is there, that can be used as reason to kick him out of all other tournaments not associated with USA Wrestling by tournament directors.

https://www.themat.com/membership/ineligible-members

[Ohio Elite]

3 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

You guys need to stop talking about Congress and the first amendment. We are the wrestling community. We cannot change the law fast enough.

Get this man on the Permanently Ineligible USA Wrestling Member List. Once he is there, that can be used as reason to kick him out of all other tournaments not associated with USA Wrestling by tournament directors.

https://www.themat.com/membership/ineligible-members

I like this idea.

[Ohio Elite]

https://x.com/MrPatMineo/status/1742033237579296985?t=RNbDaWO26zH4zRniWoCwMg&s=09

[juniorvarsity]

7 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

https://x.com/MrPatMineo/status/1742033237579296985?t=RNbDaWO26zH4zRniWoCwMg&s=09

What does that even mean? He said something about the FBI. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 hours ago, BAC said:

3.  In the youth context, even sponsors should insist on retaining ownership of the copyright on all photos and video taken from their event. 

I don't disagree with this one bit, but the Flo haters certainly do.  Minnow and his sycophants were all fired up about this earlier this year. (Wranglemania?)

[Ohio Elite]

14 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

What does that even mean? He said something about the FBI. 

Not exactly sure, but he said that right authorities are now involved. I hope he is right.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

What does that even mean? He said something about the FBI. 

He wrote this also, but not sure what profiles he’s referring to.  His Twitter (which wasn’t very active) and Instagram are still up.

 

 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Ohio Elite said:

Not exactly sure, but he said that right authorities are now involved. I hope he is right.

I give credit to him for raising awareness, but based on Pyles’ post, I’m sure authorities were already involved…

Edited January 2 by 1032004

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

He wrote this also, but not sure what profiles he’s referring to.  His Twitter (which wasn’t very active) and Instagram are still up.

 

 

Typical Minnow style.  He wants us to believe that he has a direct line to the feds.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

I practiced civil and criminal law in ILLINOIS for a number of years. If these guys are reading this board, and you know they're reading this board, it's time to lawyer up. Delete all the child porn videos and pray to your God. Without waivers from the parents, there is civil liability for money damages followed by bankruptcy. Additionally, this is the relevant ILLINOIS criminal statute:

Child pornography.
    (a) A person commits child pornography who:
        (1) films, videotapes ... any child whom he ... knows or reasonably should know to be under the age of 18 ... where such child ... is:  

(i) actually or by simulation engaged in any ... sexual conduct with any person

(vii) depicted or portrayed in any pose, posture or setting involving a lewd exhibition of ... transparently clothed genitals, pubic area, buttocks....

I highlighted the questions that the State's Attorney will look at closely. Would riding be considered simulated sexual conduct? Would a singlet be considered "transparent" enough? I think the answer to both those questions would be "yes," especially if you show the judge during the motion hearing and the jury during the trial the videotapes of the children on porn sites. You only have to answer "yes" once for there to be criminal liability. The question to ask each defendant, or the rhetorical question to pose to the judge and jury: It was apparently "transparent" enough for you to post the video on a porn site, wasn't it? 

As for what to do, I think there are two main options: Root out each individual doing this one by one, or go to the two-piece for high school, Fargo, National Duals and other tournaments. Make it a privilege to wear the singlet for Team USA and in college. 

[juniorvarsity]

1 hour ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Without waivers from the parents, there is civil liability for money damages followed by bankruptcy.

This is interesting. Is there only civil liability because of the places the videos ended up? Because other orgs record matches and post them to youtube and their own sites without approval from parents ahead of time.