Dark Energy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 hours ago, Paul158 said: With all due respect I really hope you are ok. Red Blades didn't seem to have any objection to what I said. I really have no idea what you are referring to. So you are stating that you really believe that his point was that a physical road can be racist. You had no inkling that the point was that there is extensive research showing that the policies and decisions around the placement and design of some roadways and infrastructure had racist influences. No idea at all. Ok, you are actually that dim. Red Blades just responded in a nice way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 minutes ago, Dark Energy said: So you are stating that you really believe that his point was that a physical road can be racist. You had no inkling that the point was that there is extensive research showing that the policies and decisions around the placement and design of some roadways and infrastructure had racist influences. No idea at all. Ok, you are actually that dim. Red Blades just responded in a nice way. My contention is that a road cannot be by definition be racist. The person that built the road could have ulterior motives when designing a road but the road itself cannot be racist (as Redblades so thoughtfully pointed out). Now if you insist on making your degrading remarks let me know. Does it make you feel better to do so when we are having a discussion or are you just an unhappy person in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 30 minutes ago, Dark Energy said: So you are stating that you really believe that his point was that a physical road can be racist. You had no inkling that the point was that there is extensive research showing that the policies and decisions around the placement and design of some roadways and infrastructure had racist influences. No idea at all. Ok, you are actually that dim. Red Blades just responded in a nice way. I made a statement that the secretary of state Pete Buttigieg said we have racist roads. Redblades suggested I read a book called the Power Broker. I mentioned that the book was quite large (1336 pages). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I made a statement that the secretary of state Pete Buttigieg said we have racist roads. Redblades suggested I read a book called the Power Broker. I mentioned that the book was quite large (1336 pages). If you think Buttigieg is Secretary of State, I think you might want to do some additional research and clarify his job title AND what he said.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, Le duke said: If you think Buttigieg is Secretary of State, I think you might want to do some additional research and clarify his job title AND what he said. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He is not .Its early and brain wasn't working . He is the secretary of transportation. Which I stated in my original thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 34 minutes ago, Paul158 said: I made a statement that the secretary of state Pete Buttigieg said we have racist roads. Redblades suggested I read a book called the Power Broker. I mentioned that the book was quite large (1336 pages). Just making a correction .Pete is the secretary of transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Here’s some more information:https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/15/pete-buttigieg/pete-buttigieg-right-racism-shaped-some-urban-high/Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Le duke said: Here’s some more information: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/15/pete-buttigieg/pete-buttigieg-right-racism-shaped-some-urban-high/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The news conference that I saw on TV was a different than that. I watched him specifically say we have roads that are racist without any explanation. Then he continued on to another subject. Now it would have helped if he would have explained his self and maybe worded his statement differently, but he didn't. I'm sure i am not the only one that saw it. Edited January 5 by Paul158 missed a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 20 hours ago, Red Blades said: You should read The Power Broker, by Robert A. Caro. Robert Moses adopted some very interesting strategies and policies in developing the highway systems around NYC! And when in the hell is he going to finish the last LBJ volume? Clock's ticking, Bob. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 19 hours ago, Paul158 said: I appreciate your suggestion but you're asking me to go buy a book ( that has 1336 pages) and read it. Even if I were to do so, it would not change the definition of racism. Racism by definition is making arbitrary judgements about people based on race. Please explain how a road can make an arbitrary judgement about a person based on race. So are you attempting to change the definition of racism? You absolutely should read this book. It is a monumental achievement. Two things. Racism is not an arbitrary judgement, it is intentional. And the road does not make an arbitrary judgement, but the road builder makes an intentional judgement. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 19 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said: is this a "driving while black" discussion? Thats been debunked. No. It is a road building while white discussion. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Blades Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Dark Energy said: Red Blades just responded in a nice way. I'm getting to be an old guy, as my kids like to remind me (hell, I could even be a LEHIGH fan! ); and so I've found over time you may catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And I've also realized, I can probably never change anyone's mind about things, and so I don't try to. But if I can offer up a little information that I believe to be true, and it may contribute to somebody's understanding (and maybe not the person I'm speaking directly with, but rather someone else listening)- then I've done something good for the day. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 13 hours ago, Lipdrag said: So, in a mono-racial country (say Japan or Germany) those road commissions must make decision on roadways, routes, etc which benefit some communities and harm others. Are Japanese and German roads non-racist because there is only one race and there is no opportunity to be racist? Or is it just possible that the road decisions are really made on mostly the same criteria in every country? I am sure our noted transportation scientist/engineer/historian Petey B. knows the answer and admonishes his Japanese, German, and every other Minister of Transportation whenever he gets the chance about their racist roads. You really should read the book. It is wonderfully detailed based on deep research. It is not a study in racism. It is a study in power, how it is acquired, how it is used, through the lens of one man's example. That the man in question held an unelected position while working on public projects makes it all the more fascinating. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Paul158 said: He is not .Its early and brain wasn't working . He is the secretary of transportation. Which I stated in my original thread. C'mon man, Bob gave you 15 minutes to get your brain working. He caught me in the NC St v OSU thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ionel said: C'mon man, Bob gave you 15 minutes to get your brain working. He caught me in the NC St v OSU thread. Hey I could barely see the computer screen are you kidding me. We have all made some typing or phrasing mistakes. I'm sure I will make some more.I think Bob should give us a full hour to make corrections if we are responding from 6 am to 10 am in the morning. Edited January 5 by Paul158 missed a word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Red Blades said: I'm getting to be an old guy, as my kids like to remind me (hell, I could even be a LEHIGH fan! ); and so I've found over time you may catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And I've also realized, I can probably never change anyone's mind about things, and so I don't try to. But if I can offer up a little information that I believe to be true, and it may contribute to somebody's understanding (and maybe not the person I'm speaking directly with, but rather someone else listening)- then I've done something good for the day. This is the way. They say we humans have made up our views at an early age... I agree. My views have changed usually from someone doing as you have done. Where someone's information piques my interest... I research... and bring about my change. Some change comes from life experiences, like thoughts on education and religion after traveling multiple times to developing countries. Asking questions is another to pique interest. Why would a bridge be intentionally too low to allow a bus to travel past? What impact would that have on separating the poor from the affluent? Racist design in roadways was not something I knew either until reading ...The Power Broker.. blah... now I'm interested. So much better approach than 'you are privileged... what about poor people... you face-eating leopard supporter!' 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said: You absolutely should read this book. It is a monumental achievement. Two things. Racism is not an arbitrary judgement, it is intentional. And the road does not make an arbitrary judgement, but the road builder makes an intentional judgement. So would you say racism can be both arbitrary and intentional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Paul158 said: So would you say racism can be both arbitrary and intentional? I don't do the Socratic method. If there is an argument you want to make, make it. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Red Blades said: I'm getting to be an old guy, as my kids like to remind me (hell, I could even be a LEHIGH fan! ); and so I've found over time you may catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And I've also realized, I can probably never change anyone's mind about things, and so I don't try to. But if I can offer up a little information that I believe to be true, and it may contribute to somebody's understanding (and maybe not the person I'm speaking directly with, but rather someone else listening)- then I've done something good for the day. So, I looked up the audio version of the book (66 hours 11 minutes). Wow. If the book was put directly into a mini series it would take 66 one hour episodes .That is if there are no commercials. With commercials probably 75 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I don't do the Socratic method. If there is an argument you want to make, make it. Not really, just asking an honest question. I was not trying to offend in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Blades Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 17 minutes ago, Paul158 said: So, I looked up the audio version of the book (66 hours 11 minutes). Wow. If the book was put directly into a mini series it would take 66 one hour episodes .That is if there are no commercials. With commercials probably 75 episodes. As I said - it makes a great doorstop. I first read it because it was an assigned reading (graduate course in planning/urban design), but I got a lot out of it. I'm sure others did as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 56 minutes ago, Paul158 said: Hey I could barely see the computer screen are you kidding me. We have all made some typing or phrasing mistakes. I'm sure I will make some more.I think Bob should give us a full hour to make corrections if we are responding from 6 am to 10 am in the morning. Wish I had a nickel for every time it took @BobDole more than 15 minutes to get something right cause if I did could've watched the Michigan v SDSU meet last night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointTakedown Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Red Blades said: I'm getting to be an old guy, as my kids like to remind me (hell, I could even be a LEHIGH fan! ); and so I've found over time you may catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And I've also realized, I can probably never change anyone's mind about things, and so I don't try to. But if I can offer up a little information that I believe to be true, and it may contribute to somebody's understanding (and maybe not the person I'm speaking directly with, but rather someone else listening)- then I've done something good for the day. I can appreciate the feeling of not getting accomplished what you hoped to accomplish. Thank you for fighting the good fight when you can. Do stand up and push back against bad/harmful ideas. Don't let them get a foothold. Bad actors need to be addressed at every opportunity. Here's to more good days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, Red Blades said: As I said - it makes a great doorstop. I first read it because it was an assigned reading (graduate course in planning/urban design), but I got a lot out of it. I'm sure others did as well. Would you think less of me if I told you I have read it three times, and none of those were assigned? Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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