Maine shooting

[mspart]

31 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Why is the sale and possession of guns, let alone assault weapons, to the mentally ill and unstable allowed?  Why are firearms, especially AR-15s glorified and revered by our culture?

He was involuntarily committed for mental health issues.  At that time, the judge could have taken away his firearms and be well within the confines of established law.   Did the judge do that?  He was a known firearms instructor, army reservist, etc.  It seems that there are laws on the books not being enforced in the first place.   So what is the answer to this?

mspart

[neutral]

No civilian should have access to an AR or other rifle/carbine capable of high capacity.  They are designed for the sole purpose of efficiently killing humans.  Any other argument is being deliberately dishonest.  The US has an unhealthy fetish for these weapons.

[jross]

9 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Good question, easy, because it is an inanimate object.  We need to address all the things that cause a human being to take a gun, or any other object, and slaughter other human beings for no apparent reason.

The cost of convenience is a shortcut to bad decisions, and self-control is best exercised by removing the temptation.

[Plasmodium]

6 minutes ago, mspart said:

He was involuntarily committed for mental health issues.  At that time, the judge could have taken away his firearms and be well within the confines of established law.   Did the judge do that?  He was a known firearms instructor, army reservist, etc.  It seems that there are laws on the books not being enforced in the first place.   So what is the answer to this?

mspart

There are no red flag laws in Maine.  By which law could his guns have been confiscated?

[PortaJohn]

11 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

So now you're agreeing that we can restrict access to some inanimate objects, but just not these particular ones.  Ok, we're getting somewhere.  You pushed back on nuclear weapons and tanks, but didn't mention regular cars.  Why should we restrict access to cars but not guns? 

As to your last question, because we literally have evidence (see: EVERY OTHER "DEVELOPED NATION") to show us that, if the access to these particular inanimate objects was restricted, the numbers of people killed would be dramatically reduced.

Not entirely true.  Switzerland has a high rate of gun ownership and low homicide rates comparable to countries with the strictest gun laws.  I'm all for more regulations but we can't deny that America has a mental health crises

[jross]

21 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I think using nuclear weapons and tanks as logic falls apart pretty quickly as well.  No one on here ever has argued for the general population to own military weapons...we are talking about guns....and all the guns available to the general population are just that, guns...NOT military weapons.  Guns are in fact an inanimate object, no?  It is a mentally ill/psychopath that takes that inanimate object and uses it to kill people.  Why they do that and what leads them to do that are the questions we need to figure out...in the meantime, let's get this particular inanimate object out of their hands and just hope they don't just use something else to kill people until they can get the help they clearly need.

It is legal to own functional tanks in America.  

[Ohio Elite]

8 minutes ago, neutral said:

No civilian should have access to an AR or other rifle/carbine capable of high capacity.  They are designed for the sole purpose of efficiently killing humans.  Any other argument is being deliberately dishonest.  The US has an unhealthy fetish for these weapons.

It's funny when people talk about guns, yet know nothing about them.

[headshuck]

Flamethrowers are legal in almost every state. CA requires a permit. Not as cool as a tank but much more portable.

[Plasmodium]

7 minutes ago, jross said:

It is legal to own functional tanks in America.  

It is legal to own a bushmaster machine gun and 120 mm cannon?

[Plasmodium]

10 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

It's funny when people talk about guns, yet know nothing about them.

Not true.  @neutral knows for a fact they enable killing people on a large scale 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Plasmodium
I don't want to be the next ma'am

[VakAttack]

10 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Not entirely true.  Switzerland has a high rate of gun ownership and low homicide rates comparable to countries with the strictest gun laws.  I'm all for more regulations but we can't deny that America has a mental health crises

Yes, because of the way they restrict access to guns.  There are licensing requirements

https://impakter.com/why-gun-ownership-switzerland-not-same-us/

 

Quote

But back to weaponry. You want a gun in Switzerland even after you finished military service? Fine, but you have to apply for one and get a license unless you want a hand bolt-action rifle or a multi-barreled hunting rifle– in which case you do not need a license.

So, let’s say you are Swiss, you have military experience, and now you want a real, thoroughly lethal gun, not a multi-barreled hunting rifle that’s good for bringing home venison, and also, you’re 18 or older: Can you pack heat without a bureaucratic problem?

Here for the Swiss, unlike Americans, regulations are quite a bit more finicky. Not only are you supposed to be criminal record-free in order to get a gun, but you also must be deemed unlikely to cause harm to other Swiss. Local police who have doubts about a prospective gun owner’s well-being (or even those who are assured of the same but worry nonetheless) may and sometimes do ask local psychiatrists or friends about an applicant’s mental state or alcohol and drug use.

 Also, that gun license, even when approved, is only valid for a maximum of nine months, and applicants are allowed only one weapon. Period.

 

[neutral]

10 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

It's funny when people talk about guns, yet know nothing about them.

I know quite a bit about guns.  Not an expert, no.  So miss me with that crap.

[Ohio Elite]

13 hours ago, neutral said:

Don't be obtuse.  AR rifles are not meant for civilian use.

Then stop posting ignorant shit like this.  AR rifles are absolutely meant for civilian use. It's a dumbed down version of the M16 which has 3 round burst and fully auto capability 

[Ohio Elite]

10 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

It is legal to own a bushmaster machine gun and 120 mm cannon?

Hope so!

[neutral]

1 minute ago, Ohio Elite said:

Then stop posting ignorant shit like this.  AR rifles are absolutely meant for civilian use. It's a dumbed down version of the M16 which has 3 round burst and fully auto capability 

Gfy.  The original M16 is a weapon of war.  Whether dumbed down or not, it is still a weapon of war.  Stop being a jackass.

[mspart]

24 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

There are no red flag laws in Maine.  By which law could his guns have been confiscated?

If I am mistaken it is because most states have laws to this effect.   If Maine does not, perhaps it is time to consider making a change and enforcing it.   

mspart

[neutral]

You "conservatives" are so married to the concept of being able to kill people in large numbers it is sickening.  No one wants your shotguns, hunting rifles, or self defense handguns. 

[Ohio Elite]

5 minutes ago, neutral said:

Gfy.  The original M16 is a weapon of war.  Whether dumbed down or not, it is still a weapon of war.  Stop being a jackass.

Then how are civilians allowed to buy them?  Pull your head out your ass little man.

[jross]

Trebuchets, cannons, grenade launchers, miniguns are legal to own.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by jross
sp

[Offthemat]

22 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

It is legal to own a bushmaster machine gun and 120 mm cannon?

Near here, for a fee, you can spend hours firing all sorts of military grade weapons.  They are privately owned.  You pay for the privilege, supervision, and ammo.  
The more progressive this country gets, the more violent it’s become. 

[mspart]

Just to ask the question -

Is there any disagreement with the idea that mentally ill people should not possess firearms?

If no disagreement, then that is a way forward that everyone can agree to and we should as a country move in that direction.  If there is disagreement...

mspart

[jross]

We should be outraged by mass shootings, but where is the outrage towards the frequent gun violence concentrated in just a few blocks of specific cities?  

https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-violence/community-gun-violence/

[Ohio Elite]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

Just to ask the question -

Is there any disagreement with the idea that mentally ill people should not possess firearms?

If no disagreement, then that is a way forward that everyone can agree to and we should as a country move in that direction.  If there is disagreement...

mspart

I agree with this completely. Whack jobs DON'T need guns. Neither do stupid people. We need some sort of intelligence test for guns and much better screening 

[Plasmodium]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

Just to ask the question -

Is there any disagreement with the idea that mentally ill people should not possess firearms?

If no disagreement, then that is a way forward that everyone can agree to and we should as a country move in that direction.  If there is disagreement...

mspart

Not so fast.   https://www.axios.com/2022/06/04/gun-control-nra-red-flag-laws

[WrestlingRasta]

13 minutes ago, mspart said:

If I am mistaken it is because most states have laws to this effect.   If Maine does not, perhaps it is time to consider making a change and enforcing it.   

mspart

In fact, the rep from Maine James Golden, held a press conference last night to take some accountability for what happened because of his previous fight against gun restrictions. He says it is time he take some responsibility for this failure, and called in Congress to act. 
 

It’s refreshing to see a leader who is capable of taking step back and seeing if there is a better way than the way they have always thought.