Progressives vs liberals

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, jross said:

It changes the profit model from treating sickness to preventing sickness.

——

Imagine a primary care doctor agrees to a value-based payment arrangement. They receive $1,000 per patient per year from the insurance company. If they have 500 patients, they earn $500,000 a year ($1,000 x 500 patients).

Now, in this model, their income is not tied to the number of tests or treatments. Instead, they're focused on keeping their patients healthy. If they successfully keep their patients healthy and avoid expensive hospitalizations or procedures, they may earn an additional bonus. Let's say they manage to save $50,000 in healthcare costs by emphasizing preventive care and good management. In this case, they might get a bonus of, let's say, 20% of the savings, which is $10,000.

As one example as a patient, your provider may start initiating communication to you to coordinate physicals, screenings, vaccinations, chronic disease monitoring, health education, etc.

Its like having a loving momma remind you to brush your teeth,  cash for As, and dad saying come outside and play catch…

less cavities, less Fs, less fat…

https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.17.0558

Love it. 
Thank you sir 

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:08 PM, Plasmodium said:

QOS drives profits?  You don't believe that.   I have never once felt like I had control over a medical transaction.  You take what you get.   You can shop a doctor around, but not a medical facility.  It is law that drives QOS in the medical industry.

 

And that is a travesty. This industry should have more transparency. If there is no way to compare then why is it a for-profit industry?   

[mspart]

Tough to go shopping when your appendix bursts.   Now for other things sure. 

mspart

[jross]

I hope the hospital across the street is 'in network.'

[ThreePointTakedown]

19 hours ago, mspart said:

Tough to go shopping when your appendix bursts.   Now for other things sure. 

mspart

Yes, there are plenty of things that make the health care industry unique. But it isn't insurmountable to make it more transparent. 

If it was universally covered by the government(like other, less rich countries) then it wouldn't matter the circumstances of your appendix(within reason, of course). Treatment and cost would be roughly the same. Less anxiety about going to the doc for fear of a bad diagnosis that could cost A LOT. Maybe would make for a more, overall, healthy population. 

Talk about a moral argument. That we can afford to offer health care to everyone and don't. What could the reasons possibly be? 

Equality scares the hell out of some people. 

[Bigbrog]

I think people forget about the critical thing of doctor's getting to know their patients and their history in order to better treat their patients.  I'll take my luck with the private healthcare facilities.  I am all for improving things and making things better, but to use other countries as examples of a great health care system is laughable.  My question, what as American's are you willing to give up for a government healthcare system??  Roads?  How about the over-bloated welfare system?  The IRS?  

I like the private healthcare system, but if people want to have a public "free" heath care system in addition to the private, have at it.  And how about those that support it and want to use it are the ones who pay for it?

[mspart]

British Columbia has such a great free medical system that they can't handle all their cancer patients and are sending them to Bellingham WA to get treatment.   It is such a great system that they are using the US as their example of how to get it done.

https://komonews.com/news/local/british-columbia-canada-vancouver-bc-bellingham-whatcom-county-cancer-care-health-public-government-funds-vulnerable-payments-cascade-center-joseph-peace-diagnosis-minister-universal-system

mspart

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

 My question, what as American's are you willing to give up for a government healthcare system??  Roads?    The IRS?  

Yes let's trade for roads, then can solve health care and climate change in one fell swoop.

But I'm also willing to give up the IRS.  

[jross]

What does Chad in Virginia think?

[mspart]

I heard it on the X!!!

mspart

[WrestlingRasta]

16 hours ago, ionel said:

But I'm also willing to give up the IRS.  

Then you are willing to give up roads,

And police departments, and fire departments, and schools, and judicial systems, infrastructure, national defense, national disaster relief, and on and on and on. 
 

It’s funny how MAGA teaches us to hate those who make it possible the luxuries and services we take for granted here on a daily basis. Almost as if they’d like to see it erode from within…

[ionel]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Then you are willing to give up roads,

And police departments, and fire departments, and schools, and judicial systems, infrastructure, national defense, national disaster relief, and on and on and on. 
 

It’s funny how MAGA teaches us to hate those who make it possible the luxuries and services we take for granted here on a daily basis. Almost as if they’d like to see it erode from within…

It was a bit of sarcasm but also we don't need the massive IRS to have those things.  Get ride of the loop holes, go to flat or vat or combination, other etc and reduce the excesses and waste. 

[mspart]

8 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

 Almost as if they’d like to see it erode from within…

Gee, that's what is happening in D run big cities today.   Obviously MAGA is against that. 

mspart

[Bigbrog]

9 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Then you are willing to give up roads,

And police departments, and fire departments, and schools, and judicial systems, infrastructure, national defense, national disaster relief, and on and on and on. 
 

It’s funny how MAGA teaches us to hate those who make it possible the luxuries and services we take for granted here on a daily basis. Almost as if they’d like to see it erode from within…

I don't think anyone meant to infer getting rid of the IRS totally, but as Ionel said, get rid of the bloat and waste, like there is in a lot of governement agencies.  I would love to have full power to go into some of our governmental areas and get rid of all the waste so there is more money to spend on the things that are important to the american people.

[Plasmodium]

On 11/7/2023 at 1:25 PM, jross said:

What does Chad in Virginia think?

l'd like to see what triggered Chad.   Guy may have had shade coming, since this is an internet video with little discernible context.

[jross]

Preach

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Preach

 

Death rattle of a losing candidate/party. No introspection. All working hard to convince you they are the Leopard that will eat the most faces. Losing grip in Kentucky, Virginia, Ohio, Georgia. Haven't won the poplar vote in 20 years. But can only whine about them being stolen with NO EVIDENCE of it being true. Policies getting more and more religiously fundamental and authoritarian.  

But you're right... preach.  

[jross]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

NO EVIDENCE

^^^ Willful Ignorance.  ^^^

 

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Policies getting more and more religiously fundamental and authoritarian.  

Yes!  Republicans are authoritarian on some issues... despite the lumber in the Democrat's eye.

authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Rs: abortion, drugs, immigration, law/order, patriot act...
Ds: covid, guns, speech, economy, business, obamacare, big tech oversight...

For COVID alone, stop talking about authoritarianism...

Authoritarianism is in the eye of the beholder... both parties have authoritarian views.  If we want to talk generically, the party of "limited government" and "leave me alone" has to try hard to be as authoritarian as the party that wants a 'strong government' so big that checks/balances and a bill of rights are required to protect personal freedom.

Edited November 9, 2023 by jross

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

When emotion overrides rationale.  ^^^
 

Yes!  Republicans are authoritarian on some issues... despite the lumber in the Democrat's eye.

authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Rs: abortion, drugs, immigration, law/order, patriot act...
Ds: covid, guns, speech, economy, business, obamacare, big tech oversight...

For COVID alone, stop talking about authoritarianism...

Authoritarianism is in the eye of the beholder... both parties have authoritarian views.  If we want to talk generically, the party of "limited government" and "leave me alone" has to try hard to be as authoritarian as the party that wants a 'strong government' so big that checks/balances and a bill of rights are required to protect personal freedom.

Would it be better for health outcomes if government paid for health care for all or we continue on the current system(if we can even call it that) that we have now? 

Does/should 'personal freedom' factor into the decision? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

What is the Republican plan to improve health care in the country? There was a guy that kept saying it would be announced next week. That was 4 or 5 years ago now. Are we any closer to that. I know they have worked their tails off to deny health care to 50+% of the population and a fraction of a fraction of % the population that identify as trans. Definitely limited government-type policies. Ensuring the freedoms of us all. 

The right is laughable in the people they vote to represent them. Have higher expectations. 

[WrestlingRasta]

I’d just like to see more of our fellow republicans start doing something of substance rather than continuously telling us who we should be mad at. 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I’d just like to see more of our fellow republicans start doing something of substance rather than continuously telling us who we should be mad at. 

You mean like ex-speaker McCarthy?

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Would it be better for health outcomes if government paid for health care for all or we continue on the current system(if we can even call it that) that we have now? 

Does/should 'personal freedom' factor into the decision? 

Better for those without, yes.  I support universal healthcare so long as I can still elect to pay for private care, and UBC is paid by existing tax revenue.  

The gov doesn’t deserve another cent from me until it passes a balanced budget for its core services.

[Plasmodium]

17 hours ago, jross said:

^^^ Willful Ignorance.  ^^^

 

Yes!  Republicans are authoritarian on some issues... despite the lumber in the Democrat's eye.

authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Rs: abortion, drugs, immigration, law/order, patriot act...
Ds: covid, guns, speech, economy, business, obamacare, big tech oversight...

For COVID alone, stop talking about authoritarianism...

Authoritarianism is in the eye of the beholder... both parties have authoritarian views.  If we want to talk generically, the party of "limited government" and "leave me alone" has to try hard to be as authoritarian as the party that wants a 'strong government' so big that checks/balances and a bill of rights are required to protect personal freedom.

Of all the disingenuous posts in all the land this one takes the cake.

No mention of the authoritarian himself, who is the party.  No mention of his efforts to undermine everything he lacks control of or that which reins him in.  Not the consolidation of his power - the undermining of all his internal rivals(RINOs).  Not the purposeful sowing of mistrust in the legal system which is holding him accountable.  Not the undermining of the press which criticizes him.  Not democracy itself which rejected him.  Not even renewable energy which prevented him from developing the particular way he wanted.

[jross]

Eye of the beholder.

I see what you see, acknowledge it, and call out what your brain can’t process.