Book Bans

[Plasmodium]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

The school can provide guidance to me as a parent and it's my decision on when and how my children are exposed to sensitive topics.  

There is no fear of having conversations with my kids.

There is fear of a school teacher having a negative influence on my child on sensitive topics, without my permission, at the wrong child development time, while supporting values that do not align with mine.

 

Without being facetious, it sounds like you need religious or home schooling.

[uncle bernard]

My mom runs a small Christian preschool at our church. She's had multiple prospective families ask if they teach "woke ideology." They're three years old. People have lost their minds.

[uncle bernard]

37 minutes ago, jross said:

The school can guide me as a parent, and it's my decision on when and how my children are exposed to sensitive topics.  

There is no fear of having conversations with my kids.

There is fear of a school teacher negatively influencing my child on sensitive topics, without my permission, at the wrong child development time.

If you are genuinely afraid of this scenario, you are totally missing the source of this threat. Your number one priority should be keeping your kid off the internet. No smart phones, tablets, or computers. That's where kids actually see and learn the things you're talking about. It's almost 100% self-education via the internet.

[jross]

Just now, Plasmodium said:

Without being facetious, it sounds like you need religious or home-schooling.

Agreed.  I'd have loved to homeschool my kids through middle school.  It was not in the cards.

I've largely delayed involving my children with organized religion and held off on religious discussions until they can think critically.  Our home dialogue includes questions like

• How many religions exist in the world?
• What are the fundamental principles of the popular religions?
• What parts of those popular religions do you find morally problematic?
• How does one's surroundings and cultural background influence their choice of religion?
• What are the pros and cons of Pascal's Wager?
• What will require you to place faith despite concrete evidence?
• Who are the best people you've encountered, and what faith do they follow?
• Is belief in god required to be a good person?

My 14-year-old daughter recently started attending a bible study at her Nana's house.  I am feeding my daughter questions like  "If you were born in Iraq, what would your religion most likely be?  Would you be destined for hell if by chance you were born to a Muslim family in Iraq?  If you were born and raised by a Muslim family in Iraq, would you believe that Nana (Protestant Christian) is destined for hell?"

This type of discussion is my parental responsibility...

[ThreePointTakedown]

42 minutes ago, jross said:

The school can guide me as a parent, and it's my decision on when and how my children are exposed to sensitive topics.  

There is no fear of having conversations with my kids.

There is fear of a school teacher negatively influencing my child on sensitive topics, without my permission, at the wrong child development time.

Entirely fair opinion to have. But that opinion is not held by everyone and you should not want your opinion to be put into action to effect everyone. Especially since you are, more than likely, not an expert in the teaching of children, nor versed in how data is collected and analyzed to determine the benefits or harms of this material. 

The word 'fear' says a lot. Its an emotion and powerful one. One that tends to overrule our rational thoughts and leads us down an often violent path of fight or flight. Neither of those options are an appropriate response in this situation. You should want to learn and understand before making a decision that effects your kids and more importantly would force your decision on others. Anything else is lazy and ignorant and your opinion should not be taken into account until you can prove what work you've done to come by it. If it effects everyone in a community you better work harder than you did to compose this post. 

[jross]

11 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

If you are genuinely afraid of this scenario, you are totally missing the source of this threat. Your number one priority should be keeping your kid off the internet. No smart phones, tablets, or computers. That's where kids actually see and learn the things you're talking about. It's almost 100% self-education via the internet.

Yep.

The best I can do is keep smartphones away, limit Wi-Fi time, filter sites and keywords, etc.  The kid who drives has a smartphone.  The younger ones do not have phones.

[uncle bernard]

Just now, jross said:

Yep.

The best I can do is keep smartphones away, limit Wi-Fi time, filter sites and keywords, etc.  The kid who drives has a smartphone.  The younger ones do not have phones.

I don't agree with your reasons for doing so, but completely agree with trying as much as possible to limit internet time. It melts brains. Ironically, the boomers have probably been hit hardest. Zero internet literacy + an era of information saturation is not a good mix lol.

[ThreePointTakedown]

2 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Are you being obtuse?  Yes...yes you are...you know what word.

Just asking, you weren't specific and I couldn't put it together with your context clues. 

Care to share? 

[Bigbrog]

My opinion, and how I have raised my son, the internet isn't necessarily all bad, since it can be a great source for information.  What I taught my son is to critically think for yourself and don't trust one source of information.  And to look for the bits of truth in different sources and to bring those together to help form your OWN thoughts on a subject.  As for social media (FB, Twit, etc.) those are usually cesspools and to tread lightly.  

[Bigbrog]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Just asking, you weren't specific and I couldn't put it together with your context clues. 

Care to share? 

I was referring to the word "banned"...as people like to use that word to illicit an emotional response for not agreeing that certain age kids shouldn't be exposed to certain books and thus those books are removed from the schools in which those kids would have access to them.  That is not "banning" books.  They know it isn't that, but yet use that word. 

If books were truly banned, and what I don't agree with, no one would have access to them.

[Ban Basketball]

Cancel culture is so heartwarming and PRECISE!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/us/alabama-library-marie-louise-gay-reaj/index.html

[jross]

4 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Entirely fair opinion to have. But that opinion is not held by everyone and you should not want your opinion to be put into action to effect everyone. Especially since you are, more than likely, not an expert in the teaching of children, nor versed in how data is collected and analyzed to determine the benefits or harms of this material. 

The word 'fear' says a lot. Its an emotion and powerful one. One that tends to overrule our rational thoughts and leads us down an often violent path of fight or flight. Neither of those options are an appropriate response in this situation. You should want to learn and understand before making a decision that effects your kids and more importantly would force your decision on others. Anything else is lazy and ignorant and your opinion should not be taken into account until you can prove what work you've done to come by it. If it effects everyone in a community you better work harder than you did to compose this post. 

I might not understand your position but it is a poor stance if you think I (a parent) need to prove or explain why it is my responsibility for my child's upbringing and education, even if I may not be an expert in child development.  Having an 'educator' decide and act to expose my child to sensitive material like "spit or swallow" is out of bounds.  

I agree with you on the word 'fear.'  I should not have reused it from your post.  I don't fear my kid's teachers who, at the parent conferences, seem to align with my values.  The storylines from extreme liberal areas seem like fake news... but the video recordings show it is real and it would hypothetically cause me fear if I shook their teacher's hand at my kid's school.

[Lipdrag]

3 hours ago, jross said:

The school can guide me as a parent, and it's my decision on when and how my children are exposed to sensitive topics.  

I disagree.  Parents guide the school about when and how children are exposed to sensitive topics.  Not the other way around.  

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, Lipdrag said:

I disagree.  Parents guide the school about when and how children are exposed to sensitive topics.  Not the other way around.  

Indirectly.  The school board takes input from everyone and it eventually filters through legal and winds up in class rooms.

[ThreePointTakedown]

40 minutes ago, jross said:

I might not understand your position but it is a poor stance if you think I (a parent) need to prove or explain why it is my responsibility for my child's upbringing and education, even if I may not be an expert in child development.  Having an 'educator' decide and act to expose my child to sensitive material like "spit or swallow" is out of bounds.  

I agree with you on the word 'fear.'  I should not have reused it from your post.  I don't fear my kid's teachers who, at the parent conferences, seem to align with my values.  The storylines from extreme liberal areas seem like fake news... but the video recordings show it is real and it would hypothetically cause me fear if I shook their teacher's hand at my kid's school.

No need to prove that it IS your responsibility. I'll concede that it is your responsibility but you are being lazy about application of it. I wrote that you need to prove why your opinion is sound, valid, and/or should be forced upon other children whose parents don't happen agree with you. How much do we whittle away at public resources(that for the most part are beneficial to the users) because a small percentage simply disagree with their existence or application? 

What other area(s) of life do you second guess the experts? Doctors, dentists, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters? Those who went to years of school for this subject, alone. Or just the ones whose mere existence pose a threat to fearmongers. People that benefit from winding you up and pointing you at a thing/group/organization and convince you that they are a threat. They try to convince you that TEACHERS, of all people, have the time, resources, or inclination to care about indoctrinating your child. 

[jross]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I wrote that you need to prove why your opinion is sound, valid, and/or should be forced upon other children whose parents don't happen agree with you.

Simple.  Protecting children from potentially harmful content is a self-evident choice that prioritizes their well-being over unfettered access to sensitive material within an educational setting.

I disagree with parents' beliefs that access to Huck Finn's N words will transform my white kids into rabid racists.  These parents believe hearing the N-word read aloud, personally reading in silence, and classmates reading it could traumatize their black kids.  Removing Huck Finn from the school library does zero harm to my kids.  Keeping the book accessible has a non-zero risk.  

A graphic novel, "Flamer" is available in K-6 school libraries.  One page has multiple images with boys' pants down around their ankles and says, "We're each busting a load into this bottle.  If you don't cum, you have to DRINK IT!  Hahahaha!"  There is zero risk for harm by banning the book in the K-6 library.  There is a nonzero risk a young child is exposed at the wrong time in their life, and the parent may not even be aware they need to discuss it.

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

What other area(s) of life do you second guess the experts? Doctors, dentists, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters? 

All of them depending on what they say, how they say it, and how they answer questions.  

Have you never gotten a second and third opinion from doctors, dentists, mechanics, carpenters, painters, lawyers, and so on?

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

People that benefit from winding you up and pointing you at a thing/group/organization and convince you that they are a threat. They try to convince you that TEACHERS, of all people, have the time, resources, or inclination to care about indoctrinating your child. 

Video evidence like this tells me I need to visit my kid's classroom, meet the teachers, attend parent conferences even though my kids have good grades, and stay away from California.
 

[Plasmodium]

20 minutes ago, jross said:

Video evidence like this tells me I need to visit my kid's classroom, meet the teachers, attend parent conferences even though my kids have good grades, and stay away from California.
 

That was an AP Government teacher.  Unfortunately, he was fired.

[Bigbrog]

But that's a teacher...how can you even question them...they are the experts....

[mspart]

Unfortunately fired?   Ha ha.   That was a joke right?

mspart

[Ban Basketball]

Never dreamed that it'd see a day where 30% of authoritarians among us would so openly endorse and defend book bans. 

[Ban Basketball]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Video evidence like this tells me I need to visit my kid's classroom, meet the teachers, attend parent conferences even though my kids have good grades, and stay away from California.
 

Horrible to think that someone would be opposed to facism, eh, friends!?

[Ban Basketball]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

But that's a teacher...how can you even question them...they are the experts....

He was fired,  ma'am. What more should have happened?

[Ban Basketball]

22 hours ago, Lipdrag said:

I disagree.  Parents guide the school about when and how children are exposed to sensitive topics.  Not the other way around.  

No, parents get no say in curriculums or content,  unless they're trained eggakaturs.

Back off,  terrorists!