Big 10, Big 12, and Pac 12 shuffle (maybe) coming in hot

[bnwtwg]

Lots of scuttle

What's happening in the Pac 12:

Oregon and Washington are using the current media rights negotiations by threatening to join the Big Ten. This seems to be a foregone accounting conclusion awaiting BOR votes if the deal is not sweet enough for Nike University.

Arizona and Arizona State are locking arms - they will be the lynchpin for the future of the Pac 12. If they stay, everyone stays. As of right now the question is will there be enough media $ to remain or will they move to the Big 12? If they go to the Big 12 then Utah is also presumed to join the Big 12.

Big Ten is waiting to pick apart like a Bain & Co corporate raider. But for whatever reason is NOT interested in Stanford or Cal. I mean Cal I get, but Stanford? Literally the best overall sports school and I hear they have decent academics.

Pac 12 may cease to exist, or at minimum become relegated to an also-ran lower than the MAC.

Ongoing BOR meetings are happening today and tonight. Big decisions that will affect our sport and likely not in a positive manner if more non-wrestling schools join the premier wrestling conference while abandoning another premier conference.

[bnwtwg]

How much will the remaining Pac-10 schools get paid to be in other conferences?

Source for valuations: https://graphics.wsj.com/table/NCAA_2019

School	Conf	$MM (~Approx)
1. Washington	Big Ten	45
2. Oregon	Big Ten	45
3. Arizona State	Big XII	30
4. Stanford	?	?
5. Utah	Big XII	30
6. Colorado	Big XII	30
7. Cal	?	?
8. Arizona	Big XII	30
9. Washington State	MWC	5
10. Oregon State	MWC	5

Edited August 3, 2023 by bnwtwg

[ionel]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

How much will the remaining Pac-10 schools get paid to be in other conferences?

Source for valuations: https://graphics.wsj.com/table/NCAA_2019

School	Conf	$MM (~Approx)
1. Washington	Big Ten	45
2. Oregon	Big Ten	45
3. Arizona State	Big XII	30
4. Stanford	?	?
5. Utah	Big XII	30
6. Colorado	Big XII	30
7. Cal	?	?
8. Arizona	Big XII	30
9. Washington State	MWC	5
10. Oregon State	MWC	5

Shouldn't Stanford join the Ivy ... the tree is already green so ...

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

How much will the remaining Pac-10 schools get paid to be in other conferences?

Source for valuations: https://graphics.wsj.com/table/NCAA_2019

School	Conf	$MM (~Approx)
1. Washington	Big Ten	45
2. Oregon	Big Ten	45
3. Arizona State	Big XII	30
4. Stanford	?	?
5. Utah	Big XII	30
6. Colorado	Big XII	30
7. Cal	?	?
8. Arizona	Big XII	30
9. Washington State	MWC	5
10. Oregon State	MWC	5

B1G revenue this last season was actually just over $60 million.

[bnwtwg]

35 minutes ago, ionel said:

Shouldn't Stanford join the Ivy ... the tree is already green so ...

Stanford and ASU should join B1G because of the AAU accreditation that only 71 schools currently have across North America. But B1G just wants that PNW broadcasting money.

Pac12 dismantling is a very bad trickle down economics for our sport, just like the rest of that terrible theory.

[Idaho]

Pac-12 has been falling apart for awhile now. The final nail in the coffin will be happening soon.  Poor leadership with no vision.  The Pac-12 will most likely become the Pacific Mountain West 12 Conference. 

[MadMardigain]

As BigTen expand across the nation so does travel cost, especially for minor sports that don’t bring in a

major money. So is furthering conference expansion helping schools keep these minor sports viable or could it cause them to reduce some of their catalog in order to focus more on the main money makers? If anything I don’t see this as improving the state of wrestling in the Big10. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by MadMardigain

[CHROMEBIRD]

The speculation is that Washington and Oregon would be an all-or-nothing deal for the Big Ten; either they get both schools, or none. The Big Ten member vote last month denying both schools was for full shares of the media split. Now, they are tossing around the idea of offering UW and UO partial shares. It will still dilute payouts to each school while incurring much higher travel costs, so it's hardly a done deal. USC and UCLA may also move to block the expansion, as the implication of joining the Big Ten was that they'd own recruiting out West. UW and UO would eat into that. Cal and Stanford would be non-starters. Keep in mind that the Pacific Northwest and Bay media markets are still pretty small compared to what USC and UCLA bring to the table. 

Many speculated even before Colorado left that the four corner schools would bolt for the Big12. For some reason Utah has been holding strong on staying in the Pac12. I think part of the concern is that moving conferences won't resolve gripes from Pac fans about watching games: in the Pac, they all start late and don't get any viewership East of the Rockies; in the Big12, start times could happen while fans out West are still at work. Plus, it isn't exactly easy for fans to travel to the Big12 cities. If the Pac12's AppleTV deal falls short of expectations, I can see the Arizona schools leaving for the Big12 anyway. UA and ASU are also an all-or-nothing deal (AZ BOR won't split the schools) and that might make things easier, as neither school wants to be the one who puts the final dagger into the Pac12. 

I wonder what Koll is thinking about ASU possibly wrestling in the Big12. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Stanford and ASU should join B1G because of the AAU accreditation that only 71 schools currently have across North America. But B1G just wants that PNW broadcasting money.

Pac12 dismantling is a very bad trickle down economics for our sport, just like the rest of that terrible theory.

Stanford and Arizona. ASU does not have an AAU distinction.

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, Idaho said:

Pac-12 has been falling apart for awhile now. The final nail in the coffin will be happening soon.  Poor leadership with no vision.  The Pac-12 will most likely become the Pacific Mountain West 12 Conference. 

Maybe they'll merge with the Western Athletic Conference and become the PACWAC. Adding UVU and Cal Baptist to the Pac might be good... maybe get GCU to restart wrestling!

[bnwtwg]

18 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Stanford and Arizona. ASU does not have an AAU distinction.

Did you not click the link that literally confirms the recent AAU distinction? Go home

[bnwtwg]

Oh sorry @CHROMEBIRD must think that we give a shit about summer high school basketball. We should all lend forgiveness

[CHROMEBIRD]

5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Oh sorry @CHROMEBIRD must think that we give a shit about summer high school basketball. We should all lend forgiveness

Found the midget 

[bnwtwg]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Found the midget 

no I outgrew 103 by my senior year and finally made varsity

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

14 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Lots of scuttle

What's happening in the Pac 12:

Oregon and Washington are using the current media rights negotiations by threatening to join the Big Ten. This seems to be a foregone accounting conclusion awaiting BOR votes if the deal is not sweet enough for Nike University.

Arizona and Arizona State are locking arms - they will be the lynchpin for the future of the Pac 12. If they stay, everyone stays. As of right now the question is will there be enough media $ to remain or will they move to the Big 12? If they go to the Big 12 then Utah is also presumed to join the Big 12.

Big Ten is waiting to pick apart like a Bain & Co corporate raider. But for whatever reason is NOT interested in Stanford or Cal. I mean Cal I get, but Stanford? Literally the best overall sports school and I hear they have decent academics.

Pac 12 may cease to exist, or at minimum become relegated to an also-ran lower than the MAC.

Ongoing BOR meetings are happening today and tonight. Big decisions that will affect our sport and likely not in a positive manner if more non-wrestling schools join the premier wrestling conference while abandoning another premier conference.

I've always felt that the Big Ten weighed the amount a university can bring in via research grants and research cooperation as more important than any other factor, even eyeballs on TV/Streaming sports content. It makes sense to me because if you patent a cure for something or a new and better solar panel, you can make an insane amount of money. That's why all of the conference schools have huge "research parks." Moreover, the Big Ten has a research cooperation agreement among member institutions so that they can share in the $$$. 

TV/Streaming media rights are chump change compared to research dollars and patents. 

When you look at this chart, you can see at least 9 Big Ten schools in the top 50 pulling in federal and state research dollars. ILLINOIS is killing it, and it is also a patent-applying machine. But look at Washington, that school is number two on the list. If Washington and Oregon get into the conference, I would suspect Stanford and Cal would be next. They have the academic AAU status, and they are big research institutions. 

I had always hoped that the Big Ten would require each member school to have a wrestling program, and that held true through Penn State, then Rutgers and Maryland. But what to make of UCLA and USC? 

[Idaho]

The Pac will either have to merge with the WAC and MWC or take their best teams creating a Jr. Varsity Pac-12 of what it used to be.  I was advocating with the PAC merging with the B12 a couple years ago when shifting started to happen, but unfortunately the Pac-12 president did not read my post on this message board. 

[peanut]

It looks like Oregon and Washington will be joining the Big Ten. It's all about the amount of money candidate schools can bring in, including TV revenue.

Once Oregon and Washington join, there will be 18 schools in the Big Ten, with four on the west coast.

I wonder if they might create or reshuffle the divisions within the Big Ten (depending on the sport) to accommodate the massive distances between schools.

I'm guessing the Big Ten and the SEC are looking to expand even further. Who are the biggest fish left? I'm thinking Notre Dame, Clemson, Duke, UNC, ASU, and Stanford?

Edited August 4, 2023 by peanut

[Ohio Elite]

6 minutes ago, peanut said:

It looks like Oregon and Washington will be coming to the Big Ten. It's all about the amount of money candidate schools can bring in.

Once Oregon and Washington join, there will be 18 schools, with four on the west coast. I wonder if they might create or reshuffle the divisions within the Big Ten (depending on the sport) to accommodate the massive distances between schools.

Now we need all 4 of those teams to get their wrestling programs going!

Edited August 4, 2023 by Ohio Elite
Extra word

[peanut]

11 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

Now we need all 4 of those teams to get their wrestling programs going!

Burroughs already said he'd coach a new UCLA or USC program. I'd love to see it.

[Dogbone]

I wish it wasn't the case, but I don't see any of the new schools adding wresting. 

[Scouts Honor]

lets just merge the two conferences

each old conf is its own division

then the winners can play... in  a championship game

where to host it? 

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

The Pac 12 could invite regional teams to join it, and thereby further enable them to recruit student athletes who don't want to have to travel to the rest of the country all the time when they're supposed to be getting an education. Such members might encounter difficulties competing with other schools that have more money... but won't recruits gravitate to local schools? Perhaps the Pac 12 can show the rest of the conferences how it's done... with the student athletes' well-being in mind... 99.9% of student athletes don't make it to the NFL or NBA, right? Educations matter.

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

lets just merge the two conferences

each old conf is its own division

then the winners can play... in  a championship game

where to host it? 

Why not just have one G1ant conference with merge SEC b1g B12 ACC Pac?? etc etc and then divide it into divisions with a 16 team playoff, this way the G1ant Conf is guaranteed to get 16 teams into the playoffs and the G1ant is guaranteed to get the best recruits and most lucrative TV package. 

 

Also, I now have copyright on "G1ant" so don't think you can copy and paste (MP) without paying me my dime.  

Edited August 4, 2023 by ionel

[peanut]

Just now, ionel said:

Why not just have one G1ant conference with merge SEC b1g B12 ACC Pac?? etc etc and then divide it into divisions with a 16 team playoff, this way the G1ant Conf is guaranteed to get 16 teams into the playoff. 

I think it's possible that, at some point in the future, the Big Ten and SEC agree to leave the NCAA and have their own championship game. That would really give them a stranglehold on college football money.

What would that mean for minor sports? I have no idea.

[peanut]

Okay -- wow -- more movement today. Here's the recap:

• Washington & Oregon to the Big Ten
• Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State to the Big 12

The Big Ten will have 18 members, with four schools on the west coast. None of the west coast schools have wrestling teams.

The Pac 12 -- with Colorado previously announcing its departure -- is now left with only four schools: Stanford, Cal, Oregon State, Washington State. For wrestling, the Pac 12 will have the following schools:

• Stanford
• Oregon State
• Cal Poly (affiliate)
• Cal State Bakersfield (affiliate)
• Arkansas at Little Rock (affiliate)

However, it does not seem like the Pac 12 will survive much longer. Stanford in particular is probably desperately trying to get invited to the Big Ten. Cal probably assumes it's only shot at the Big Ten is as a companion for Stanford.

For wrestling, the Big 12 will have:

• Iowa State
• Oklahoma State
• WVU
• ASU
• Air Force (affiliate)
• Cal Baptist (affiliate)
• Missouri (affiliate)
• Northern Co. (affiliate)
• Northern Iowa (affiliate)
• NDSU (affiliate)
• SDSU (affiliate)
• Utah Valley (affiliate)
• Wyoming (affiliate)

Pretty crazy shakeup. And everyone thought NIL deals were going to ruin college sports.

Edited August 5, 2023 by peanut