2024 President Candidate Discussion

[Wrestleknownothing]

I also have my doubts he will be convicted.

While I am certain Trump has committed many crimes as outlined in his last two indictments, I am also highly skeptical that they can find a jury to convict him.

Several posters on here like to talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome as though it is an anti-Trump phenomena. I view it as a pro-Trump phenomena. It is the only way I can explain how anyone can know what we know about his actions, (including, but certainly not limited to, the speech on Jan.6, the call to Raffensperger, the memos outlining the plan to seat false electors, the attempts to actually seat false electors, the "you tell the lie and we will do the rest" conversation with the Justice Department, the attempts to intimidate his own vice president) and still think he has any business running for president.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I do not think it is likely he will go to jail pending trial.

There is the law, and then there is legal realism. Holding a former president, who is also a current presidential candidate, in jail is not realistic. They can, and will I think, convince themselves that he can be muzzled, all past experience to the contrary. And as a presidential candidate he has a strong reason not to flee the US, perhaps the strongest possible reason, meaning he is also not a flight risk.

Valid points, in general feel the same way about everything you said, but I think there are a couple things, one being that this DA doesn't seem to care about the campaign impacts, the federal prosecutors are certainly sensitive to it, but this DA, and this jurisdiction, seem to have no problem with it.   Doesn't erase the challenges to holding him, I just feel like they may be a little more intent.  Combined with.......I don't think he's going to leave them much choice.  But that's all really just opinion and not so much wishful thinking.  Now, my third paragraph, particularly the second half of it, definitely opinion and wishful thinking.

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I also have my doubts he will be convicted.

While I am certain Trump has committed many crimes as outlined in his last two indictments, I am also highly skeptical that they can find a jury to convict him.

Several posters on here like to talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome as though it is an anti-Trump phenomena. I view it as a pro-Trump phenomena. It is the only way I can explain how anyone can know what we know about his actions, (including, but certainly not limited to, the speech on Jan.6, the call to Raffensperger, the memos outlining the plan to seat false electors, the attempts to actually seat false electors, the "you tell the lie and we will do the rest" conversation with the Justice Department, the attempts to intimidate his own vice president) and still think he has any business running for president.

Valid as well.  

BUT...when you imagine jury being sequestered, and instead of reading all of the social media bits and seeing the video clips of this segment or that segment.......you are fed a strict diet, for months, of nothing but facts, evidence, and testimony.  For awhile I thought getting a conviction on him would be near impossible.  Now.... not so sure.

[Offthemat]

Good at predictions?  Who do you think Trump will choose as a running mate?

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

Good at predictions?  Who do you think Trump will choose as a running mate?

No clue, and time will tell how good these predictions will turn out.

[Offthemat]

I thought for some time it would be Devin Nunes, but I see Tim Scott as another good selection. 

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I thought for some time it would be Devin Nunes, but I see Tim Scott as another good selection. 

I can see Scott gaining some ground once the fever breaks.  

[Offthemat]

I hadn’t heard he was sick. 

[Ban Basketball]

Anyone else think that a responsible, moral person would jut bow out of the race and declare that he (she) just has too much on his plate and that their focus needs to be elsewhere?

Goes to show the lack of the character that this pig has.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

12 hours ago, Ban Basketball said:

Anyone else think that a responsible, moral person would just bow out of the race and declare that he (she) just has too much on his plate and that their focus needs to be elsewhere?

Goes to show the lack of the character that this pig has.

Who, this guy? Nope, not responsible or moral.

His ethics are clear to see, they are written all over his face.

[WrestlingRasta]

21 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I do not think it is likely he will go to jail pending trial.

Got to thinking it’s extremely possible this is correct, he doesn’t go to jail pending trial, 

but what about Rudy, Meadows, Powell, Eastman….some of those with multiple serious charges, but not running for president?

[Wrestleknownothing]

33 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Got to thinking it’s extremely possible this is correct, he doesn’t go to jail pending trial, 

but what about Rudy, Meadows, Powell, Eastman….some of those with multiple serious charges, but not running for president?

I read that the plan is to try them together, so I will guess the sycophants get a free ride on the coat tails.

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I read that the plan is to try them together, so I will guess the sycophants get a free ride on the coat tails.

Yeah she did say intends to try all together.

[jross]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:45 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

I also have my doubts he will be convicted.

While I am certain Trump has committed many crimes as outlined in his last two indictments, I am also highly skeptical that they can find a jury to convict him.

Several posters on here like to talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome as though it is an anti-Trump phenomena. I view it as a pro-Trump phenomena. It is the only way I can explain how anyone can know what we know about his actions, (including, but certainly not limited to, the speech on Jan.6, the call to Raffensperger, the memos outlining the plan to seat false electors, the attempts to actually seat false electors, the "you tell the lie and we will do the rest" conversation with the Justice Department, the attempts to intimidate his own vice president) and still think he has any business running for president.

 

My favorite part of the J6 speech is where he used coded language violence.

Quote

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

 

I believe the election was rigged through media manipulation, suppression polls, bribery, and ballot harvesting.  I didn't need Trump to tell me.  2020 was not the "most secure election in history."  Under this belief, I have a different perspective on some of his behavior.

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

 

My favorite part of the J6 speech is where he used coded language violence.

 

I believe the election was rigged through media manipulation, suppression polls, bribery, and ballot harvesting.  I didn't need Trump to tell me.  2020 was not the "most secure election in history."  Under this belief, I have a different perspective on some of his behavior.

Unfortunately for Mr. Trump, the Jan6 speech and 'beliefs' are completely irrelevant to all 91 of the felony charges against him.  They are going to have to come up with a better defense.

[Paul158]

27 minutes ago, jross said:

 

My favorite part of the J6 speech is where he used coded language violence.

 

I believe the election was rigged through media manipulation, suppression polls, bribery, and ballot harvesting.  I didn't need Trump to tell me.  2020 was not the "most secure election in history."  Under this belief, I have a different perspective on some of his behavior.

Agree 100 %. But all we hear is there was absolutely zero fraud in the election. There was zero manipulation. There was no ballot harvesting. Mail in ballots were 100% valid votes. There has never been a Presidential election that didn't have fraud. This election was no different .

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Agree 100 %. But all we hear is there was absolutely zero fraud in the election. There was zero manipulation. There was no ballot harvesting. Mail in ballots were 100% valid votes. There has never been a Presidential election that didn't have fraud. This election was no different .

That is not what the federal indictment states at all. It said there was no outcome-determinative fraud. No one who speaks intelligently on the subject states there was zero fraud. The hyperbole does no one any good.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[WrestlingRasta]

14 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Agree 100 %. But all we hear is there was absolutely zero fraud in the election. There was zero manipulation. There was no ballot harvesting. Mail in ballots were 100% valid votes. There has never been a Presidential election that didn't have fraud. This election was no different .

That is not all you hear, at all. What you hear are people whose job it actually is to investigate these things is they did not find level of fraud that would change the results of the election. There’s fraud by both parties committed in every election. Anyone with any level of sense knows that. 
 

Not to mention it’s just amazing to me that MAGA keeps crying about a stolen election. 

[Paul158]

5 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

That is not what the federal indictment states at all. It said there was no outcome-determinative fraud. No one who speaks intelligently on the subject states there was zero fraud. The hyperbole does no one any good.

I'm aware of that. I just feel when it comes to the most important election in the world we can do a lot better. We are vulnerable when it is not conducted in free and fair manner.

[Paul158]

6 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

That is not all you hear, at all. What you hear are people whose job it actually is to investigate these things is they did not find level of fraud that would change the results of the election. There’s fraud by both parties committed in every election. Anyone with any level of sense knows that. 
 

Not to mention it’s just amazing to me that MAGA keeps crying about a stolen election. 

Its MABGA.

[Gus]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:32 AM, Bigbrog said:

I've been sorta interested in looking into solar panels for the roof.  But heard it is extremely expensive and may not be as cost effective as one would think...but like I said, I need to look into it more.

When I looked into it a couple years ago the payback period was like 20-25 years.. Not a great investment.

[jross]

I learned something today.

 

[Offthemat]

 

[mspart]

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/a-big-deal-for-voting-pennsylvania-relaxes-mail-in-ballot-rules-will-no-longer-match-voters-signatures/

‘A Big Deal for Voting’: Pennsylvania Relaxes Mail-in Ballot Rules, Will No Longer Match Voters’ Signatures

Colin Kalmbacher  Sep 15th, 2020, 4:51 pm

49 comments

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania relaxed controversial verification rules for the processing of mail-in ballots last week in a decided victory and boon for voting rights advocates. The decision also short-circuits a voting access lawsuit already in progress.

Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D) issued guidance to counties that local election officials cannot perform on-the-spot signature analysis. Effectively, this means that ballots cannot be rejected because an election official believes the voter’s signature on a ballot envelope does not match the signature on file.

“Once the qualified voter’s absentee or mail-in application is approved, the voter is mailed a ballot with instructions and two envelopes,” the memo explains. “The outer envelope includes both a unique correspondence ID barcode that links the envelope to the qualified voter’s application and a pre-printed Voter’s Declaration that the voter must sign representing that the voter is qualified to vote the enclosed ballot and has not already voted.”

... But “signature analysis” is specifically mentioned as a no-go area for election workers.

So how do you prevent fraud when this is the standard?   SOS Boockvar broke PA state law but issuing this guidance in my opinion.   Even a whacko left wing state like mine (WA) does signature matching.  

And if signature matching is not sufficient, then how does anyone propose to preclude fraudulent votes from coming in and being counted?

mspart

 

 

[Offthemat]

23 minutes ago, mspart said:

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/a-big-deal-for-voting-pennsylvania-relaxes-mail-in-ballot-rules-will-no-longer-match-voters-signatures/

‘A Big Deal for Voting’: Pennsylvania Relaxes Mail-in Ballot Rules, Will No Longer Match Voters’ Signatures

Colin Kalmbacher  Sep 15th, 2020, 4:51 pm

49 comments

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania relaxed controversial verification rules for the processing of mail-in ballots last week in a decided victory and boon for voting rights advocates. The decision also short-circuits a voting access lawsuit already in progress.

Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D) issued guidance to counties that local election officials cannot perform on-the-spot signature analysis. Effectively, this means that ballots cannot be rejected because an election official believes the voter’s signature on a ballot envelope does not match the signature on file.

“Once the qualified voter’s absentee or mail-in application is approved, the voter is mailed a ballot with instructions and two envelopes,” the memo explains. “The outer envelope includes both a unique correspondence ID barcode that links the envelope to the qualified voter’s application and a pre-printed Voter’s Declaration that the voter must sign representing that the voter is qualified to vote the enclosed ballot and has not already voted.”

... But “signature analysis” is specifically mentioned as a no-go area for election workers.

So how do you prevent fraud when this is the standard?   SOS Boockvar broke PA state law but issuing this guidance in my opinion.   Even a whacko left wing state like mine (WA) does signature matching.  

And if signature matching is not sufficient, then how does anyone propose to preclude fraudulent votes from coming in and being counted?

mspart

 

 

They don’t want to preclude fraudulent votes.