Final X was a Great Event

[PortaJohn]

USAW put on a great show this past weekend.  Turnout was decent, the event moved at a decent pace, & of course the matches were fantastic.  I heard Flo's live cast was a dumpster fire, par for the course, but all in all it was a well run event.  Just wanted to thank the organizers especially given that the wrestling community as a whole is an ungrateful bunch.  Cheers.  Also, @Interviewed_at_Weehawken I went to the site of your execution and pissed on it in honor of Pennsylvania wrestlers everywhere 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Agreed. I thought it was well done. Smoothly run, great video review look ins, and @Jason Bryant was topnotch explaining challenges and reasons for rulings.

My only niggle was the scoreboards. They used folkstyle scoreboards which meant they had to jury rig the criteria signifier. No underlined score. Instead they would switch the period indicator to red or green (no blue) to signify criteria.

[Jason Bryant]

  On 6/12/2023 at 2:23 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Agreed. I thought it was well done. Smoothly run, great video review look ins, and @Jason Bryant was topnotch explaining challenges and reasons for rulings.

My only niggle was the scoreboards. They used folkstyle scoreboards which meant they had to jury rig the criteria signifier. No underlined score. Instead they would switch the period indicator to red or green (no blue) to signify criteria.

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My quibble was that as well. I did point out early "hey, If I don't know who has criteria, neither do the people in here." Criteria didn't impact too many matches overall, though, so that impact was pretty minimal, except ... when it wasn't. My partner-in-crime Bryan Hazard was probably more on the spot with the challenge review process to make sure proper credit is given. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 1:12 AM, PortaJohn said:

USAW put on a great show this past weekend.  Turnout was decent, the event moved at a decent pace, & of course the matches were fantastic.  I heard Flo's live cast was a dumpster fire, par for the course, but all in all it was a well run event.  Just wanted to thank the organizers especially given that the wrestling community as a whole is an ungrateful bunch.  Cheers.  Also, @Interviewed_at_Weehawken I went to the site of your execution and pissed on it in honor of Pennsylvania wrestlers everywhere 

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You may have made a mistake.  I like PA wrestlers just fine.  Some of my favorite wrestlers are from PA.  It is PSU that I don't like (and I actually found myself rooting for 3.5 ex-PSU wrestlers this weekend)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 3:15 AM, Jason Bryant said:

My quibble was that as well. I did point out early "hey, If I don't know who has criteria, neither do the people in here." Criteria didn't impact too many matches overall, though, so that impact was pretty minimal, except ... when it wasn't. My partner-in-crime Bryan Hazard was probably more on the spot with the challenge review process to make sure proper credit is given. 

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I was super surprised that Mike Grey had no clue as to what Yianni needed to do to win match one.  Yianni was asking him about criteria and Grey had no answer for him.  Unforgiveable. 

[1032004]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:33 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I was super surprised that Mike Grey had no clue as to what Yianni needed to do to win match one.  Yianni was asking him about criteria and Grey had no answer for him.  Unforgiveable. 

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So you’re saying Yianni to NLWC?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:51 AM, 1032004 said:

So you’re saying Yianni to NLWC?

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It did cross my mind.  Pretty sure Cael, Casey, someone would have an idea of the criteria situation.  (Especially after the scoring FUBAR at the Bartlett-Lee match last month.  I guarantee that NLWC made some sort of adjustment in their cornering so that one guy is always aware of scoring situations etc.)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[ionel]

For those who attended in person, were there times you felt like the arena was spinning around? 

[Eagle26]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:33 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I was super surprised that Mike Grey had no clue as to what Yianni needed to do to win match one.  Yianni was asking him about criteria and Grey had no answer for him.  Unforgiveable. 

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I disagree. A coach is in the heat of the moment and their job is to coach not keep track of score. As a coach, I can completely understand the criteria but easily lose track of who has more 2 point moves in a 10-10 match because that’s not your focus (nor should it be). The scoring table needs to make it clear that is their job. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 12:20 PM, Eagle26 said:

I disagree. A coach is in the heat of the moment and their job is to coach not keep track of score. As a coach, I can completely understand the criteria but easily lose track of who has more 2 point moves in a 10-10 match because that’s not your focus (nor should it be). The scoring table needs to make it clear that is their job. 

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It is absolutely the job of someone in the corner.  Someone needs to know the situation.  The failure to plan for stuff like this gets you fired in sports like the NFL.  Coaches need to be more accountable.  These are professional coaches and professional athletes.

[Eagle26]

  On 6/12/2023 at 12:32 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

It is absolutely the job of someone in the corner.  Someone needs to know the situation.  The failure to plan for stuff like this gets you fired in sports like the NFL.  Coaches need to be more accountable.  These are professional coaches and professional athletes.

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NFL is not an apples to apples comparison because no other sport has a multi step criteria to determine who has the lead. They can simply look to the scoreboard to see see score and time. However, after thinking about it more, I have to admit you are right that there are some cases in wrestling where the scoreboard can’t tell you the full situation. The main example is if you are down by one, will you have the lead on criteria if you just score one, or do you need to score two? So the coach would need to keep track of that… tough to do, but I guess they have to. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 3:46 PM, Eagle26 said:

NFL is not an apples to apples comparison because no other sport has a multi step criteria to determine who has the lead. They can simply look to the scoreboard to see see score and time. However, after thinking about it more, I have to admit you are right that there are some cases in wrestling where the scoreboard can’t tell you the full situation. The main example is if you are down by one, will you have the lead on criteria if you just score one, or do you need to score two? So the coach would need to keep track of that… tough to do, but I guess they have to. 

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Thanks.  I believe criteria is best best remembered as 1. Most; 2. Least; 3. Last.

It is not hard when you remember it that way.

From the rulebook:

If the point total is equal at the end of a match, the following criteria will determine the winner, in this order: 1. Highest value scoring actions (most 5 point actions, most 4 point actions, most 2 point actions) 2. Least number of accrued cautions 3. Last point scored

Yianni matches can get crazy at times, which is all the more reason to have one guy in the corner keep track.  Not too hard. Just have a notepad.

(And as far as NFL: The stuff going on with NFL sidelines with down, distance, substitution packages, injury, clock, etc. dwarfs anything that happens in a wrestling match)

 

[LJB]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:33 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I was super surprised that Mike Grey had no clue as to what Yianni needed to do to win match one.  Yianni was asking him about criteria and Grey had no answer for him.  Unforgiveable. 

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this happens more than most realize...

high level coaches who do not know the rules is 100% unforgiveable...

[Eagle26]

Yes, I agree with you guys it’s a totally unacceptable for a coach to not understand criteria. It’s really not hard to understand at all. What I was saying is that it is difficult to keep track of sometimes - such as who has the most 2 point moves in a 14-13 match? Writing down every score on a notepad would solve it, but I think that would be really distracting from your coaching, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen coaches doing that (or maybe just didn’t notice)? They probably do or should have a guy in the stands not far away doing that for them. 

[KennyEBHS]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:33 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I was super surprised that Mike Grey had no clue as to what Yianni needed to do to win match one.  Yianni was asking him about criteria and Grey had no answer for him.  Unforgiveable. 

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They had thirty seconds. One of the coaches could have asked someone at the table.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 4:39 PM, Eagle26 said:

Yes, I agree with you guys it’s a totally unacceptable for a coach to not understand criteria. It’s really not hard to understand at all. What I was saying is that it is difficult to keep track of sometimes - such as who has the most 2 point moves in a 14-13 match? Writing down every score on a notepad would solve it, but I think that would be really distracting from your coaching, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen coaches doing that (or maybe just didn’t notice)? They probably do or should have a guy in the stands not far away doing that for them. 

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They need to do something.

[LJB]

  On 6/12/2023 at 4:56 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

They need to do something.

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who has criteria is listed on the matside scoreboard...

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 6/12/2023 at 4:59 PM, LJB said:

who has criteria is listed on the matside scoreboard...

 

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There is still no excuse, but Yianni was trailing by 1 (if I remember) and wanted to know if he needed 1 or 2.  He wanted to know what criteria would look like if he tied it.  To my knowledge that isn't on the scoreboard, but a coach should know.

[PortaJohn]

  On 6/12/2023 at 11:58 AM, ionel said:

For those who attended in person, were there times you felt like the arena was spinning around? 

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I saw heads spin when Kelly Ripa walked the aisles 

[LJB]

  On 6/12/2023 at 5:07 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

There is still no excuse, but Yianni was trailing by 1 (if I remember) and wanted to know if he needed 1 or 2.  He wanted to know what criteria would look like if he tied it.  To my knowledge that isn't on the scoreboard, but a coach should know.

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100%...

i was not paying very close attention to that match during the event...

the best style was playing on a tv across the room...

but, a good coach would know...

if a good coach can not keep it straight in a match then a good coach would damn sure have someone next to him or within sight distance that is keeping track...

you would be amazed at how many coaches who are former/current olympians who simply refuse to educate themselves on the rules...

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 6/12/2023 at 4:59 PM, LJB said:

who has criteria is listed on the matside scoreboard...

 

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In this case it was listed poorly.

They used folkstyle scoreboards (no underlining) matside and the jumbotron scoreboard did not show who had criteria. About half way through the first session they made an announcement that they were moving the dots signifying the period back and forth between the red and green (no blue) sides to indicate criteria. Sub-optimal.

[mspart]

Why would they not have the proper scoring equipment?   How long has USAW been in the business of international wrestling?  I'm not one to complain about this kind of thing really, but with scoring changing every few years, maybe it is too much to invest in when it will go obsolete soon.

mspart

[LJB]

  On 6/12/2023 at 8:18 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

In this case it was listed poorly.

They used folkstyle scoreboards (no underlining) matside and the jumbotron scoreboard did not show who had criteria. About half way through the first session they made an announcement that they were moving the dots signifying the period back and forth between the red and green (no blue) sides to indicate criteria. Sub-optimal.

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i just went back and saw them...

i have not seen those at a USA event in forever...

it makes no sense to me...

[LJB]

  On 6/12/2023 at 8:22 PM, mspart said:

Why would they not have the proper scoring equipment?   How long has USAW been in the business of international wrestling?  I'm not one to complain about this kind of thing really, but with scoring changing every few years, maybe it is too much to invest in when it will go obsolete soon.

mspart

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for the last several years i have only seen monitors used at every USA event...

locals and nationals both...

typically they travel with their own equipment...

it seems awfully damn silly to be using those at final x, but, perhaps that was flo's call?

[Mr. PeanutButter]

The company that should not be named posted the entire freestyle portion of finalX on YouTube. Nice gesture