Can OU wrestling really block new recruits

[DJT]

14 minutes ago, ionel said:

I'm talking NIL.   Maybe these guys aren't on NIL.  Do you think Michigan is handing out $300k with no strings attached?

NIL contracts are technically portable be rule, as they can’t be contingent on participation, let alone participation at a particular institution.

Also, these big contract numbers are likely based on total potential value, renewed yearly, with a larger sum at the back end. Something along the lines of, “We’ll give you $300k. Each of the next three years, you’ll sign a contract for $50k/year and, in the fourth year, you’ll sign a contract for $150k.”

Edited May 6, 2023 by DJT

[flyingcement]

6 minutes ago, DJT said:

NIL contracts are technically portable be rule, as they can’t be contingent on participation, let alone participation at a particular institution.

If so that is a strange rule.  The institution for which they compete will almost definitely be a primary input into how beneficial they are as a sponsor

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I could be wrong but my impression was that boosters offer NIL through their personal local businesses and usually worded in such a way that a departure by the student from the university would amount to the nullification of that contract. Car dealership in Ames can't expect to benefit from marketing with an Athlete based in Ann Arbor, so they would add in some protection in the agreement for the business.  Of course the athlete is free to pursue other opportunities in his new location.  I don't think the school itself is paying these amounts 

but if thru univ collective could be different

15 minutes ago, DJT said:

NIL contracts are technically portable be rule, as they can’t be contingent on participation, let alone participation at a particular institution.

Also, these big contract numbers are likely based on total potential value, renewed yearly, with a larger sum at the back end. Something along the lines of, “We’ll give you $300k. Each of the next three years, you’ll sign a contract for $50k/year and, in the fourth year, you’ll sign a contract for $150k.”

well they are being used as per regs anyway so contingent ... who knows?

[SetonHallPirate]

29 minutes ago, SoonerKing said:

I don't think Leonard was hired into position he has now. I think it started after Cody hired but I'm not 100% certain. 

https://soonersports.com/staff-directory/jason-leonard/80

"Jason Leonard became the executive director of athletics compliance in December 2006."

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, ionel said:

but if thru univ collective could be different

well they aren't being used as per regs anyway so contingent ... who knows?

lost my 15 min, dang it Bob!

[nhs67]

Man.

You know what sucks?

With the chatter that Minnow us pushing it is really putting a black eye on Kish's start as HC at OU.

What sucks even more is that I agree with what him and some of his Jabronies are saying/pushing.  That means I have to be okay with Kish's black eye(s) then, correct?

He is going to have a difficult time succeeding if he us expected to fail up front straight away.

[SoonerKing]

2 hours ago, SetonHallPirate said:

https://soonersports.com/staff-directory/jason-leonard/80

"Jason Leonard became the executive director of athletics compliance in December 2006."

I can admit when wrong

[1032004]

9 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I could be wrong but my impression was that boosters offer NIL through their personal local businesses and usually worded in such a way that a departure by the student from the university would amount to the nullification of that contract. Car dealership in Ames can't expect to benefit from marketing with an Athlete based in Ann Arbor, so they would add in some protection in the agreement for the business.  Of course the athlete is free to pursue other opportunities in his new location.  I don't think the school itself is paying these amounts 

I know NIL isn’t supposed to be dependent on the school you attend, but with the money being thrown around I don’t see how the people offering that don’t somehow make it so it is. 

[1032004]

10 hours ago, SoonerKing said:

If you go back and look Mark Cody had most his success when he 1st got there. Then Leonard arrived and the program has been going down. Lou finally started to get good kids and Leonard cans him and takes almost a month to replace him. Yet NDSU who didn't fire their coach was able to replace in 2 days. Joe C needs to connect the dots, read the tea leaves, just do his job and get a leader in that position. Looks really bad on Joe C with his non action IMO.

A compliance guy can fire coaches?

[gimpeltf]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

A compliance guy can fire coaches?

But he can rule him to death.

[SoonerKing]

58 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

A compliance guy can fire coaches?

Yes

[H82Lose]

There are issues that run deep over there, lots of them.  Boosters are controlling, or trying to control a lot of the decisions. That is why it has been a roller coaster of "Koll is in" "Koll is out" "Nickerson is on campus" "they are not going to offer Nickerson" "coleman is throwing his hat in the ring" "Boosters don't want a cowboy running the program"

 

My good friend, his son is a big time recruit for OU, and has signed.  BUT, they have been left in the dark on who the coach was going to be.  Heflin is the new coach, then they ghosted him and interviewed Kish and then here we are.  I don't think he necessarily wants to leave for sure, but he wants to talk to other schools.  I understand the rules, but why not let the kid look around?  Is it a good thing to force this?  I know I wouldn't 

[ionel]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

A compliance guy can fire coaches?

Is it true Michigan, Penn St, Iowa and Ohio St have no "compliance guys?"     

[TexRef]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:13 AM, H82Lose said:

There are issues that run deep over there, lots of them.  Boosters are controlling, or trying to control a lot of the decisions. That is why it has been a roller coaster of "Koll is in" "Koll is out" "Nickerson is on campus" "they are not going to offer Nickerson" "coleman is throwing his hat in the ring" "Boosters don't want a cowboy running the program"

 

My good friend, his son is a big time recruit for OU, and has signed.  BUT, they have been left in the dark on who the coach was going to be.  Heflin is the new coach, then they ghosted him and interviewed Kish and then here we are.  I don't think he necessarily wants to leave for sure, but he wants to talk to other schools.  I understand the rules, but why not let the kid look around?  Is it a good thing to force this?  I know I wouldn't 

I knew they didn't "want an aggie"! So I was surprised when I heard people trying to mention Mark Branch and Coleman Scott. I am not sure if any of those "aggies" would want the job either. I mean now they would have to deal with those same controlling boosters. 

[RYou]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:12 PM, ionel said:

but if thru univ collective could be different

well they are being used as per regs anyway so contingent ... who knows?

Collective, not collective...same guidelines

The sponsor usually requires personal appearances.  I the athlete isn't around to fulfill the contract requirements, there is a breach that will enable cancellation of the contract.

[DJT]

9 minutes ago, RYou said:

Collective, not collective...same guidelines

The sponsor usually requires personal appearances.  I the athlete isn't around to fulfill the contract requirements, there is a breach that will enable cancellation of the contract.

Agreed. I think the infeasibility of performing the contractual requirements, paired with sort of a mutual understanding, keeps the Collectives’ NIL money from being portable when an athlete leaves said institution, in practice.

I was just reading an article where the LifeWallet guy who pays crazy NIL at Miami (giving $800k and a car to a basketball player over two years, Cavinder twins, etc.) is pissed about Collectives because they are giving money not in line with “market value”. (I.e: Every University of Texas offensive linemen gets $50k/year from their Collective to make appearances at the children’s hospital.)

[H82Lose]

9 hours ago, TexRef said:

I knew they didn't "want an aggie"! So I was surprised when I heard people trying to mention Mark Branch and Coleman Scott. I am not sure if any of those "aggies" would want the job either. I mean now they would have to deal with those same controlling boosters. 

The bad part about all of this is that I was told from a very reliable source that Coleman wanted this job, BAD.  His inlaws are from OKC and it is time for a move. I heard a few names already that he wanted on the staff.  I also heard Mark Perry softly put his name in, but then seen the shit show and was not really wanting it. 

[H82Lose]

Anyone see the tweets from Milholf and Woodley ripping Jason Leonard and the admins at OU?  Holy $hit, they ran over Leonard big time.....

[1032004]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:15 PM, ionel said:

Is it true Michigan, Penn St, Iowa and Ohio St have no "compliance guys?"     

Honestly wasn’t there chatter that PSU was being more strict with NIL than a lot of other schools initially?  But I think that changed.

And wasn’t there also a famous thread on HR several years back where someone emailed a whole bunch of compliance directors and claimed Iowa was the only one that responded?

Edited May 8, 2023 by 1032004

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Honestly wasn’t there chatter that PSU was being more strict with NIL than a lot of other schools initially?  But I think that changed.

And wasn’t there also a famous thread on HR several years back where someone emailed a whole bunch of compliance directors and claimed Iowa was the only one that responded?

PSU isn't necessarily more strict.  They created a job (or jobs?) to handle the NIL portion for the athletes, meaning if someone wanted to throw NIL moneys at someone they also have to go through that department.  It makes it so they can ensure they are complying to the NCAA rules and regulations of them.  In actuality it appears that while it may be a more strict approach to getting NIL, it is more efficient for them.

Those were my interpretations of why they might seem more strict.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Honestly wasn’t there chatter that PSU was being more strict with NIL than a lot of other schools initially?  But I think that changed.

And wasn’t there also a famous thread on HR several years back where someone emailed a whole bunch of compliance directors and claimed Iowa was the only one that responded?

The "issues" predated NIL.  PSU raised it to another level over what Iowa was doing.  Yes I was kidding and am sure they all have a compliance officer.  

[98lberEating2Lunches]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

wasn’t there also a famous thread on HR several years back where someone emailed a whole bunch of compliance directors and claimed Iowa was the only one that responded?

Sure, that is the legend.  I think cold calls may have been made, rather than or in addition to emails.

Compliance departments maintain records and report to the NCAA on behalf of university athletics.  They aren't part of any university's outward-facing public relations department.

Regardless of method used to communicate, the sole respondent was in the extreme minority (rightfully so for cause, IMHO).  The sole respondent could've been a new hire and not fully trained up.  It's not as if no response from others can only mean none or too few work there to adequately perform what the NCAA requires for member compliance.

Edited May 8, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[Wrestej]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:13 AM, H82Lose said:

There are issues that run deep over there, lots of them.  Boosters are controlling, or trying to control a lot of the decisions. That is why it has been a roller coaster of "Koll is in" "Koll is out" "Nickerson is on campus" "they are not going to offer Nickerson" "coleman is throwing his hat in the ring" "Boosters don't want a cowboy running the program"

 

My good friend, his son is a big time recruit for OU, and has signed.  BUT, they have been left in the dark on who the coach was going to be.  Heflin is the new coach, then they ghosted him and interviewed Kish and then here we are.  I don't think he necessarily wants to leave for sure, but he wants to talk to other schools.  I understand the rules, but why not let the kid look around?  Is it a good thing to force this?  I know I wouldn't 

Zan??

[RYou]

On 5/8/2023 at 9:16 AM, nhs67 said:

PSU isn't necessarily more strict.  They created a job (or jobs?) to handle the NIL portion for the athletes, meaning if someone wanted to throw NIL moneys at someone they also have to go through that department.  It makes it so they can ensure they are complying to the NCAA rules and regulations of them.  In actuality it appears that while it may be a more strict approach to getting NIL, it is more efficient for them.

Those were my interpretations of why they might seem more strict.

There primary role is to advise the student athletes on everything from contract obligations to taxes.  They do not act as an agent trying to land NIL deals or negotiate higher value.

[1032004]

Saw Minnow dug up an article from 1993 where Leonard was on the team (and AA’d at one point) and started a petition to get the coach fired, which apparently worked.