SI on PSU

[Ponzi]

Sports Illustrated -- though this version of SI is a shadow of its former self-- says Penn State might break Iowa's 170-team points record.

https://www.si.com/college/pennstate/wrestling/penn-state-wrestling-nittany-lions-finish-unbeaten-regular-season-with-win-over-clarion

[MizzouFan01]

If they indeed do break the record, the Hawkeye report room will explode. There was already a topic where they discussed taking second to Penn St, which they figured, but absolutely don’t want them to break the most points scored record. 

[PortaJohn]

The supporting cast to their Big 5 will not get them close.  Levi is the only one that potentially puts up big points

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

If they indeed do break the record, the Hawkeye report room will explode. There was already a topic where they discussed taking second to Penn St, which they figured, but absolutely don’t want them to break the most points scored record. 

Interesting. Last time I checked there was still a delusional fantasy they had a shot to win it all

[Wrestleknownothing]

If they wrestle out of their minds they will be lucky to get within 30 points of the record, which won't even put them in the top 10. To say SI is a shadow of its old self is among the understatements of the year.

[1032004]

I think they can come close, maybe do it. 

I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see them get 6 champs - that’s about 135, potentially a point or two more depending on bonus.

Also wouldn’t be shocked to see Bartlett make the finals: ~18

Then would only need ~17 more between Facundo and Van Ness.

 

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

Interesting. Last time I checked there was still a delusional fantasy they had a shot to win it all

This is not true.  You might find a guy or two, but that's it. 

55 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think they can come close, maybe do it. 

I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see them get 6 champs - that’s about 135, potentially a point or two more depending on bonus.

Also wouldn’t be shocked to see Bartlett make the finals: ~18

Then would only need ~17 more between Facundo and Van Ness.

 

6 Champs is 120 points.  None of their guys are huge bonus guys (although RBY is better this year).  Bartlett is more likely go lose in the quarters than make the finals, he just doesn't have any offense.

 

Honestly, I would be shocked if Penn State threatened their own team record, let alone the NCAA team record.

 

That said, I think I read somewhere that the record is slightly inflated based on the current scoring system.

[CHROMEBIRD]

PSU won't break the record.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

I think they can come close, maybe do it. 

I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see them get 6 champs - that’s about 135, potentially a point or two more depending on bonus.

Also wouldn’t be shocked to see Bartlett make the finals: ~18

Then would only need ~17 more between Facundo and Van Ness.

 

I am a massive PSU fan and I would take the under on every one of those numbers.

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

 

That said, I think I read somewhere that the record is slightly inflated based on the current scoring system.

I think it may be the opposite.

In 1997 you only got 1.5 points for a TF if you scored back points. If you led by 15 without back points, it was a match termination and only worth 1 team point.

Also third through eighth were worth less then (9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1) than they are now (10, 9, 7, 6, 4, 3).

But @gimpeltf would be best to weigh in on this.

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think it may be the opposite.

In 1997 you only got 1.5 points for a TF if you scored back points. If you led by 15 without back points, it was a match termination and only worth 1 team point.

Also third through eighth were worth less then (9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1) than they are now (10, 9, 7, 6, 4, 3).

But @gimpeltf would be best to weigh in on this.

but you could re compute 1997 with current scoring rules ...

[gimpeltf]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think it may be the opposite.

In 1997 you only got 1.5 points for a TF if you scored back points. If you led by 15 without back points, it was a match termination and only worth 1 team point.

Also third through eighth were worth less then (9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1) than they are now (10, 9, 7, 6, 4, 3).

But @gimpeltf would be best to weigh in on this.

They changed to the above in 2000 leading to Minnesota winning in 2001 without a finalist.

I didn't think it was the best way to solve the problem since this increased the number of times that a lower placer could outscore a higher one.

I would have just used the HS system- increasing the advancement points. This also increases points by non-placers.

But it worked and did what they wanted which was to lessen the impact of a top heavy team.

[1032004]

39 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

6 Champs is 120 points.  None of their guys are huge bonus guys (although RBY is better this year).  Bartlett is more likely go lose in the quarters than make the finals, he just doesn't have any offense.

 

Honestly, I would be shocked if Penn State threatened their own team record, let alone the NCAA team record.

 

That said, I think I read somewhere that the record is slightly inflated based on the current scoring system.

135 is an average of 22.5.  Their 4 returning champs averaged 22.4 last year.

Even if Bartlett takes 4th or 5th, Facundo and Van Ness could outperform what I said too.

Obviously that’s best case scenario (although I honestly wouldn’t be completely shocked to see them have 7 champs), but that happens pretty often with PSU.  Just saying I think there’s a path and for example I think them breaking the record is more likely than them losing…

What’s their own team record?

Edited February 22, 2023 by 1032004

[1032004]

25 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am a massive PSU fan and I would take the under on every one of those numbers.

I probably would too, just saying I think it’s within the realm of possibility 

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 champs sounds like a stretch. I am expecting PSU to win 2 or 3 weights though they have a habit of pulling off some tournament magic every year. Of course that article pumps up PSU's chances, it was a puff piece written for the Penn State fan blog and not a real SI sports writer.

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

135 is an average of 22.5.  Their 4 returning champs averaged 22.4 last year.

Even if Bartlett takes 4th or 5th, Facundo and Van Ness could outperform what I said too.

Obviously that’s best case scenario (although I honestly wouldn’t be completely shocked to see them have 7 champs), but that happens pretty often with PSU.  Just saying I think there’s a path and for example I think them breaking the record is more likely than them losing…

What’s their own team record?

146.5 in 2017

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

6 champs sounds like a stretch. I am expecting PSU to win 2 or 3 weights though they have a habit of pulling off some tournament magic every year. Of course that article pumps up PSU's chances, it was a puff piece written for the Penn State fan blog and not a real SI sports writer.

No such thing anymore.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Point taken

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

146.5 in 2017

Well depending on your definition of “threatened,” I certainly think they can at least come close to that without much overperforming.

More realistic predictions:

RBY, Starocci and Brooks - 23 each 

Kerk - 20

Dean - 18

Haines - 15

Bartlett - 12

Facundo - 5

Van Ness - 5

Total 144

 

 

[PortaJohn]

Hypothetical - Curious with the braniacs on this board how the scoring in 1997 breaks down to a scenario with PSU on par with similar placement

1997 Iowa 170 points

National champions: 
Jesse Whitmer (118 pounds) - RBY(133)
Mark Ironside (134 pounds) - Starrocci (174)
Lincoln McIlravy (150 pounds) - Brooks (184)
Joe Williams (158 pounds)  - Dean (197)
Lee Fullhart (190 pounds)  - Kerk ( Hvwt)

All-Americans: 
Mike Mena (2nd, 126 pounds) - Haines (157)
Kasey Gilliss (6th, 142 pounds) Facundo (165)
Mike Uker (5th, 167 pounds)  Bartlett (141)

----------------------------- Shayne Van Ness (R12)

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Hypothetical - Curious with the braniacs on this board how the scoring in 1997 breaks down to a scenario with PSU on par with similar placement

1997 Iowa 170 points

National champions: 
Jesse Whitmer (118 pounds) - RBY(133)
Mark Ironside (134 pounds) - Starrocci (174)
Lincoln McIlravy (150 pounds) - Brooks (184)
Joe Williams (158 pounds)  - Dean (197)
Lee Fullhart (190 pounds)  - Kerk ( Hvwt)

All-Americans: 
Mike Mena (2nd, 126 pounds) - Haines (157)
Kasey Gilliss (6th, 142 pounds) Facundo (165)
Mike Uker (5th, 167 pounds)  Bartlett (141)

----------------------------- Shayne Van Ness (R12)

PSU scores 5 more placement points plus Van Ness' 1.5 to 2.

The issue PSU would still have is they are not a big bonus point team. Iowa scored 34 bonus points in 97. PSU will get about half of that.

[PortaJohn]

6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

PSU scores 5 more placement points plus Van Ness' 1.5 to 2.

The issue PSU would still have is they are not a big bonus point team. Iowa scored 34 bonus points in 97. PSU will get about half of that.

Do you have the breakdown from that year?  And how scoring in '97 differentiates from today?  Fun topic

Edited February 22, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Wrestleknownothing]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

Do you have the breakdown from that year?  

No, I just took a look at the brackets on Wrestlingstats.

[Gus]

149 is a deep weight class. I just haven’t seen enough from SVN to think he’s going to push for a podium spot. 

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

No, I just took a look at the brackets on Wrestlingstats.

Edited my post after you responded.  Would be interesting to see those stats from '97 and compare them to how scoring is applied currently