Willie and Intermat first strikes…

[The_KC_Godfather]

Willie talked quite a bit on this weeks Basch and the Brain about his displeasure with Who’s #1. Now there’s an article on the front page of intermat questioning the value of the event.

Shots fired at Flo?

[BruceyB]

32 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

Willie talked quite a bit on this weeks Basch and the Brain about his displeasure with Who’s #1. Now there’s an article on the front page of intermat questioning the value of the event.

Shots fired at Flo?

Willie? Shots at Flo? Never.

Willie thinking that everything in wrestling would be better off under his stewardship? No, no, no. The Brain doesn't suffer from an inflated hubris.

[MizzouFan01]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Willie? Shots at Flo? Never.

Willie thinking that everything in wrestling would be better off under his stewardship? No, no, no. The Brain doesn't suffer from an inflated hubris.

I may have heard it wrong, but didn’t Willie say who’s #1 was his ideal originally, when he worked for FLO?

[Husker_Du]

i started WNO from scratch.

it's still awesome. they just have a wholly different method to selecting the matches and imo it very much devalues it.

[alex1fly]

8 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

i started WNO from scratch.

it's still awesome. they just have a wholly different method to selecting the matches and imo it very much devalues it.

Nice man! It’s a great concept. Showcase matches, build hype for the season… what’s not to like?

How did your match selection differ from the current method? If you care to share. I’m genuinely curious, but I know there’s only so much you may want to say “publicly”. 

[Hammerlock3]

17 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

i started WNO from scratch.

it's still awesome. they just have a wholly different method to selecting the matches and imo it very much devalues it.

can you lay that out?

[H82Lose]

Think about it, Willie started it, what would you say? It has not evolved any, in my opinion. Willie can go into details on why he doesn't think it have the excitement that it used to. For me, it has to do with opinon's who are would be a great match up. I am getting older now, and I don't keep up with the rankings, or matches I would want to see. But, Willie would work for example: Jax is 133 this year in college, and Bo is 141, If they were in highschool, Willie would know that is a match people would want to see....he would talk to both camps and try to make that match.

[GimJustafan]

from a wrestling standpoint the event was great / tons of great matches from the girls and boys 

while OSU is one the Priemer college programs,

the venue was a bad choice for this event  as the attendance was piss poor 

flights alone were $1000 pp ( from JFK) 

[Truzzcat]

I spoke on this in the who's 1 thread going to shorten it but to me the event has divulged into something different than what it was originally intended to be. A lot of the kids are simply not wrestling the weight they are competing at so for a preseason tournament to set the #1 ranked guy for the season its just not doing that with a lot of real validity. Its still a great event from a viewing standpoint we get to watch the best high school guys compete, its just to me not who's 1. I think enforcing scratch weight and 2 hour weigh ins would help a lot but they likely run into issues getting guys to compete then which may dilute the product from a viewing standpoint but makes it more authentic to what it was originally supposed to be in my opinion.

[kschlosser]

 

[BruceyB]

14 hours ago, H82Lose said:

Jax is 133 this year in college, and Bo is 141, If they were in highschool, Willie would know that is a match people would want to see....he would talk to both camps and try to make that match.

This is literally the opposite of his stance. He is against guys competing for the #1 spot at a weight they don't plan on wrestling.

[BruceyB]

3 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

I spoke on this in the who's 1 thread going to shorten it but to me the event has divulged into something different than what it was originally intended to be. A lot of the kids are simply not wrestling the weight they are competing at so for a preseason tournament to set the #1 ranked guy for the season its just not doing that with a lot of real validity. Its still a great event from a viewing standpoint we get to watch the best high school guys compete, its just to me not who's 1. I think enforcing scratch weight and 2 hour weigh ins would help a lot but they likely run into issues getting guys to compete then which may dilute the product from a viewing standpoint but makes it more authentic to what it was originally supposed to be in my opinion.

So I agree with everything that you said here.

That being said, I don't really understand why Willie or others think establishing who is the true #1 at each weight is more valuable than simply putting together the best possible matchups. Whether your #1 or #2 in subjective rankings is absolutely meaningless other than bragging rights. It's not like college rankings where the rankings have an impact on seeds at the end of the year and provide an advantage for winning a national title, and nearly every Senior in the event is always going to be committed to a college program (granted that means a lot less now than it used to) so it doesn't have an impact on their post high school options either. 

You are much more plugged into the high school scene than I am, so we are likely watching with slightly different interests. But, as a casual high school follower, I am more intrigued by super matches than strictly proper 1's vs 2's.

[Truzzcat]

5 hours ago, BruceyB said:

So I agree with everything that you said here.

That being said, I don't really understand why Willie or others think establishing who is the true #1 at each weight is more valuable than simply putting together the best possible matchups. Whether your #1 or #2 in subjective rankings is absolutely meaningless other than bragging rights. It's not like college rankings where the rankings have an impact on seeds at the end of the year and provide an advantage for winning a national title, and nearly every Senior in the event is always going to be committed to a college program (granted that means a lot less now than it used to) so it doesn't have an impact on their post high school options either. 

You are much more plugged into the high school scene than I am, so we are likely watching with slightly different interests. But, as a casual high school follower, I am more intrigued by super matches than strictly proper 1's vs 2's.

I think we agree but from different perspectives. I like the idea of having a true #1 going into the season and it is likely because the event feels nostalgic to me and I enjoy the concept. I also think its a cool concept for the kids. However you always have super 32 3-4 weeks later and likely a lot of the rankings would change regardless. As to the quality of wrestling we see I do not think it really changes at all aside from I hate night before weigh ins especially in single match settings I just think it leads to guys cutting too much.

[Husker_Du]

On 10/2/2026 at 11:48 PM, BruceyB said:

This is literally the opposite of his stance. He is against guys competing for the #1 spot at a weight they don't plan on wrestling.

exactly

[Husker_Du]

On 10/3/2026 at 12:00 AM, BruceyB said:

That being said, I don't really understand why Willie or others think establishing who is the true #1 at each weight is more valuable than simply putting together the best possible matchups.

You are much more plugged into the high school scene than I am, so we are likely watching with slightly different interests. But, as a casual high school follower, I am more intrigued by super matches than strictly proper 1's vs 2's.

because it makes it an exhibition. 

from this year alone

- 106 - Bartlow and Deputy was for nothing. they are two weight classes apart

- 113 - Analu Woode didn't make weight

- 138 - the last major Mangano wrestled was at 144, last December, and he took 6th. i guess there's a chance he goes 138 this year but i highly doubt it. 

- 157 - Crosson and Romero was basically for nothing because.....

- 165 - Howard and Miller are not the same weight so that was for nothing. Howard is 157 in two weeks.

Shepherd (150) and Mastny (190/215) aren't even wrestling in high school. (and yes, i cosigned the Shepherd bout so there's some hypocrisy on my behalf there but there really was no other match to make).

There's also some guys who flat out didn't earn the right to go for the #1 spot. To me you should have to have made a case why you deserve it. a lot of people can beat the #1 on any given day but what did you do to earn the shot?

 

i can't argue with your interests....everyone likes what they like.

but it indeed has turned into an exhibition as opposed to determining a preseason #1. 

 

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

because it makes it an exhibition. 

from this year alone

- 106 - Bartlow and Deputy was for nothing. they are two weight classes apart

- 113 - Analu Woode didn't make weight

- 138 - the last major Mangano wrestled was at 144, last December, and he took 6th. i guess there's a chance he goes 138 this year but i highly doubt it. 

- 157 - Crosson and Romero was basically for nothing because.....

- 165 - Howard and Miller are not the same weight so that was for nothing. Howard is 157 in two weeks.

Shepherd (150) and Mastny (190/215) aren't even wrestling in high school. (and yes, i cosigned the Shepherd bout so there's some hypocrisy on my behalf there but there really was no other match to make).

There's also some guys who flat out didn't earn the right to go for the #1 spot. To me you should have to have made a case why you deserve it. a lot of people can beat the #1 on any given day but what did you do to earn the shot?

 

i can't argue with your interests....everyone likes what they like.

but it indeed has turned into an exhibition as opposed to determining a preseason #1. 

 

I appreciate the detailed response. Truly. 

Do you think some of the veering away from your original inspiration for starting the event has to do with targeting viewership?

Like I said in my previous post, I am a casual high school follower. I basically know the U17 and U20 guys by name alone. I watch WNO just for the opportunity to see some top high school guys before they move on to college. I don't know what weight any of these guys are truly going to wrestle this season, so it makes very little difference to my experience watching whether its an exhibition or not. I'm much more likely to tune-in if there are a lot of names that I recognize than if it was purely about determining a preseason #1 and less known guys are wrestling. 

I'm definitely not arguing that the event should be catered to people like myself who aren't plugged into the high school scene. I'm just curious if attracting viewership from people like myself is what has led to Flo straying from a more pure form of WNO.

[alex1fly]

On 10/2/2026 at 10:00 PM, BruceyB said:

So I agree with everything that you said here.

That being said, I don't really understand why Willie or others think establishing who is the true #1 at each weight is more valuable than simply putting together the best possible matchups. Whether your #1 or #2 in subjective rankings is absolutely meaningless other than bragging rights. It's not like college rankings where the rankings have an impact on seeds at the end of the year and provide an advantage for winning a national title, and nearly every Senior in the event is always going to be committed to a college program (granted that means a lot less now than it used to) so it doesn't have an impact on their post high school options either. 

You are much more plugged into the high school scene than I am, so we are likely watching with slightly different interests. But, as a casual high school follower, I am more intrigued by super matches than strictly proper 1's vs 2's.

I am just now learning that WNO isn't the top two guys at a weight class, but rather two top guys at different weights. No wonder attendance is poor!

If it establishes no ranking, gives no bragging rights, and doesn't resemble actual competition why would anyone take it seriously as a viewer or as an athlete? 

Is it cool to see Troy Spratley wrestle SVN, sure I guess, but it's not a serious match if there is nothing at stake. Just my thoughts. 

[RAFWiki]

9 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

Is it cool to see Troy Spratley wrestle SVN, sure I guess, but it's not a serious match if there is nothing at stake. Just my thoughts. 

RAF has already shown they're not afraid to book top-level high school wrestlers like Bo Bassett and Everest Leydecker.

@Husker_Du - I know Colby said he originally proposed an openweight RAF NMF Championship (Nicest Motherfucker) before you guys settled on the crossover titles. How about an openweight RAF PMF Championship (Preppiest Motherfucker) that only high school wrestlers can compete for?

[BruceyB]

42 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

I am just now learning that WNO isn't the top two guys at a weight class, but rather two top guys at different weights. No wonder attendance is poor!

If it establishes no ranking, gives no bragging rights, and doesn't resemble actual competition why would anyone take it seriously as a viewer or as an athlete? 

Is it cool to see Troy Spratley wrestle SVN, sure I guess, but it's not a serious match if there is nothing at stake. Just my thoughts. 

I can't tell if you're being serious because you're being so hyperbolic here.

[MNRodent]

I don't get the impression that Flo is intentionally doing "exhibition" matchups with guys from different weight classes.  The problem is that it's the offseason, and sometimes 16-18 year olds are growing and might not know what weight class they will end up at.  Also, they may be overestimating how much they can cut with a weigh-in almost 30 hours before competition.

 

[BruceyB]

41 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

I don't get the impression that Flo is intentionally doing "exhibition" matchups with guys from different weight classes.  The problem is that it's the offseason, and sometimes 16-18 year olds are growing and might not know what weight class they will end up at.  Also, they may be overestimating how much they can cut with a weigh-in almost 30 hours before competition.

 

Another huge factor is that blue chip recruits often wrestle different weights for premier competitions and the rest of their schedule. Cody Merrill wrestled HWT his senior year of high school and there was speculation that he might go 184 in college. Sinclair wrestled 195 in high school and is a 184 in college. Bassett wrestled 150 and is going to be at 141 this season. On FRL they mentioned Melvin Miller likely isn't wrestled 165 and is considering cutting down or wrestling up at 175 because it works better for their team this year. I just don't take high school weights that seriously.

[Simpleman424]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

Another huge factor is that blue chip recruits often wrestle different weights for premier competitions and the rest of their schedule. Cody Merrill wrestled HWT his senior year of high school and there was speculation that he might go 184 in college. Sinclair wrestled 195 in high school and is a 184 in college. Bassett wrestled 150 and is going to be at 141 this season. On FRL they mentioned Melvin Miller likely isn't wrestled 165 and is considering cutting down or wrestling up at 175 because it works better for their team this year. I just don't take high school weights that seriously.

It’s crazy to think how many of these guys squeeze a weight class or two more out for the college level…there is NO way I could have done that coming out of high school 24+ years ago. I know a lot of strides have been made to limit the weight cuts since then though.

[MPhillips]

5 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I can't tell if you're being serious because you're being so hyperbolic here.

[alex1fly]

On 10/4/2026 at 10:13 AM, BruceyB said:

I can't tell if you're being serious because you're being so hyperbolic here.

Well its a message board so no reason to be too serious about anything. Not being hyperbolic though. I named two dudes I thought were two weight classes from each other, to compare to WNO. SVN and Sprat are three weight classes apart, so that's my bad. 

Edited October 5 by alex1fly

[Lordnelson]

CP made some comments about the way things used to be as well, I'm guessing they were shots at Willie.