poverty

[Scouts Honor]

hmm

 

[mspart]

Most in poverty in the US are richer than most of the worlds people.   Not all, but most.  

mspart

[Offthemat]

And experience more convenience and comfort than kings did 1-200 years ago. 

[KSoze]

"The poverty rate — the percentage of people living in poverty — dipped 0.5 percentage point to 10.2% last year, the bureau said. The supplemental measure of poverty, which takes into account non-cash government benefits and taxes, was at 13.1%, and the median household ‌income ⁠increased 2.6% to $87,460.

In 2025, a family with two adults and two children was classified as in poverty if their annual income was less than $32,649, the bureau said. The official poverty rate for children fell to a ⁠historic low of 13.4% in 2025.

Most people in the United States had health insurance for some or all of 2025, the bureau said, but 26.7 ⁠million people, or 7.9% of the population, did not have health coverage at any time."

• Current US population estimate is roughly 350M people. 
• 10.2% of that is 35.7M people
• $32,649 (before tax) a year is:
• $2,720 a month
• $680 a week
• $17/hour

If you look at the top line, you think "This is good news." Then you actually look at the metrics and realize that 35M people live in this relatively narrow definition of poverty AFTER including non-cash government benefits. 

The median rent estimates for a two-bedroom apartment in the US is $1,500-1,600, per apartments.com. 

A family of four living off of $2,700/month (again, before tax) has roughly $700 (after tax) left after paying rent to pay utilities, buy gas, buy food, buy clothes, etc.

I'm happy some additional folks cleared the low bar last year, but there are far more people living in poverty than the government data suggests. Every administration manipulates the numbers because it's relatively easy to push a family of four beyond $32K. 

We tend to minimize the impact of poverty in this country, as we've seen in the comments already, but those are specious red herrings. 

It's a real problem because poverty begets many social issues. 

Edited September 17 by KSoze
tax calcs

[ionel]

1 hour ago, KSoze said:

 

• $32,649 (before tax) a year is:
•  
• $2,700/month (again, before tax) has roughly $700 (after tax)

What taxes? 

[KSoze]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

What taxes? 

Federal income taxes. 

State income taxes. 

Sales tax. 

The amounts vary for a lot of reasons (filing status, state of residence, etc.) and you may even get a refund at the end of the year, but people pay taxes in all sorts of ways that reduce their income on payday. 

But let's assume a person never pays a penny in tax on anything at $32K of income. They're still dirt poor and underwater every month - nearly 36M people - so what's your point? 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, KSoze said:

Federal income taxes. 

State income taxes. 

Sales tax. 

The amounts vary for a lot of reasons (filing status, state of residence, etc.) and you may even get a refund at the end of the year, but people pay taxes in all sorts of ways that reduce their income on payday. 

But let's assume a person never pays a penny in tax on anything at $32K of income. They're still dirt poor and underwater every month - nearly 36M people - so what's your point? 

Those 36m people live way more better off on average than the rest of the world 

also get a second job.   Walmart.   Burger King.  Home Depot.  Bartend.   Wait tables.   Don’t be lazy 

Edited September 17 by Caveira

[braves121]

11 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Those 36m people live way more better off on average than the rest of the world 

also get a second job.   Walmart.   Burger King.  Home Depot.  Bartend.   Wait tables.   Don’t be lazy 

you really think there are enough jobs in the economy for 36m people to all get second jobs?

[KSoze]

10 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Those 36m people live way more better off on average than the rest of the world 

also get a second job.   Walmart.   Burger King.  Home Depot.  Bartend.   Wait tables.   Don’t be lazy 

They don't live in the rest of the world. 

 

[ionel]

21 minutes ago, KSoze said:

Federal income taxes. 

State income taxes. 

Sales tax. 

The amounts vary for a lot of reasons (filing status, state of residence, etc.) and you may even get a refund at the end of the year, but people pay taxes in all sorts of ways that reduce their income on payday. 

But let's assume a person never pays a penny in tax on anything at $32K of income. They're still dirt poor and underwater every month - nearly 36M people - so what's your point? 

About 30.5% of tax filers and roughly 39.6% of U.S. households pay no federal individual income tax. [1, 2]

Low Income: Most people who pay no income tax earn less than $50,000 a year.

[Caveira]

14 minutes ago, braves121 said:

you really think there are enough jobs in the economy for 36m people to all get second jobs?

Yes sir.   Always are.   Gotta have some grit.   This generation is a bunch of cry baby pansies.  Also …..  illegals don’t need jobs here anyhow. 

[Caveira]

14 minutes ago, KSoze said:

They don't live in the rest of the world. 

 

Everyone can’t be rich boss.  It’s sort of a zero sum game.   Get a job.  Like your parents and parents before them did.   
 

see this generations pansy comment 

[Offthemat]

That family of four that has a poverty level income will not only pay no income taxes, they will receive money from the government in the form of EITC.  I had an employee who complained about getting a pay raise because it caused his food stamps to be reduced.  

[braves121]

10 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Yes sir.   Always are.   Gotta have some grit.   This generation is a bunch of cry baby pansies.  Also …..  illegals don’t need jobs here anyhow. 

saying there are 36m jobs open right now is the most delusional thing I have seen you post lmao that's out doing yourself right there

[red viking]

16 minutes ago, ionel said:

About 30.5% of tax filers and roughly 39.6% of U.S. households pay no federal individual income tax. [1, 2]

Low Income: Most people who pay no income tax earn less than $50,000 a year.

They generally have very little they can pay of theyre scraping by. The rich got rich on their backs. The rich should pay 95% of the taxes. They dont though. 

[KSoze]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

That family of four that has a poverty level income will not only pay no income taxes, they will receive money from the government in the form of EITC.  I had an employee who complained about getting a pay raise because it caused his food stamps to be reduced.  

Paying taxes and subsequently having your liability reduced are not the same thing. They pay taxes on payday - like I said. 

 

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

About 30.5% of tax filers and roughly 39.6% of U.S. households pay no federal individual income tax. [1, 2]

Low Income: Most people who pay no income tax earn less than $50,000 a year.

From the reference links:

"And the federal individual income tax is just one tax. Nearly all of us pay taxes of some kind. We can pay payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, state income taxes, general sales taxes, or specific sales taxes on things like gasoline. And tariffs imposed by the Trump Administration will add to our taxes paid in 2025.  

In fact, many households that owe no federal income tax still pay substantial payroll taxes, often more than they receive in refundable credits. That’s especially true for working families whose earnings are low but steady."

 

[braves121]

12 minutes ago, Caveira said:

 Also …..  illegals don’t need jobs here anyhow. 

the government should really enforce E-verify and actually punish companies that use illegal hiring practices

[KSoze]

12 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Everyone can’t be rich boss.  It’s sort of a zero sum game.   Get a job.  Like your parents and parents before them did.   
 

see this generations pansy comment 

Who said anything about everyone being rich? I'm talking about working people being able to eat and keep a roof over your head - basic necessities that are obscured by some government report on who falls below a poverty line that they set. 

But yeah, bootstrap and all that. 

 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, braves121 said:

saying there are 36m jobs open right now is the most delusional thing I have seen you post lmao that's out doing yourself right there

Saying your to lazy to provide for your family to go out and look is dumb.  
 

also.   Read this slowly.  Illegal aliens don’t need to hold jobs in the USA. 
 

this is what’s wrong with your generation.  Pure lazy.   No motivation.   These are all near me.  Go get two of them 

Warehouse / physical work

• Warehouse Associate — Mattress Firm — Romeoville — $18–$19.50/hr
• Warehouse Associate — SHIIR Rugs — Chicago
• General Labor / Warehouse Associate — SHIPBOB — suburbs — $15.25–$18/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Savino Del Bene — Bensenville
• Warehouse Associate — Hanes Geo Components — Glendale Heights
• Warehouse Associate — Inergroup — suburbs — $18/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Integrity Staffing — North Aurora — $18/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Integrity Staffing — Des Plaines — $19/hr
• Warehouse Associate — ER Wagner — Brookfield
• Warehouse/Fleet/Logistics Associate — J. Blanton Plumbing — Chicago — $20–$22/hr
• Warehouse Associate — The Larko Group — Elmwood Park
• General Labor — V&V Supremo Foods — Chicago
• Warehouse Janitorial Associate — KBS — Wood Dale — $16–$17/hr
• Warehouse General Laborer — Carlson's Floors — Geneva — $17.50/hr
• Material Handler — Avantor — Batavia — $20/hr
• Retail Warehouse Associate — Ashley — Bolingbrook — $15–$20/hr
• Material Handler — G&W Electric — Bolingbrook — $22.50–$23.75/hr
• Warehouse General — U.S. Tsubaki — Wheeling — $18–$22/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Flexport — Des Plaines — $19/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Goodwill TalentBridge — Libertyville — $19/hr
• Warehouse Associate — Wayfair — Romeoville — $25–$26.50/hr, no resume required
• Warehouse Associate — Core-Mark — Montgomery — $17/hr
• Warehouse Associate — SHIIR Rugs — Chicago
• Production Associate — Cintas — Chicago
• Picker — Cintas — Chicago
• Stocker — Cintas — Chicago
• Garment Processor — Cintas — Chicago
• Custodian — Cintas — Chicago
• Utility Worker — Cintas — Chicago
• Builder/Material Handler — Cintas — Chicago
• Shipping/Receiving Warehouse Associate — Cintas — Chicago 

Cleaning / janitorial / housekeeping

• Overnight Restaurant Cleaner — Cleanest Restaurant Group — Chicago — $18–$20/hr
• Commercial Cleaner — RTR HR — Chicago — $14.50–$17/hr
• Commercial Cleaner — RTR HR — Chicago
• Janitor/Laborer — Europtec — Chicago — $17.80–$18.65/hr
• Housekeeper — Belmont Village Lincoln Park — Chicago — $17.05/hr
• Housekeeper — Marriott — Chicago — $19.88/hr
• Housekeeper — Marriott — Chicago — $25.15–$25.75/hr
• Seasonal Housekeeper — Marriott — Chicago — $26.79–$27.54/hr
• Housekeeper — Healthcare Services Group — Robbins — $19.25/hr
• Warehouse Janitorial Associate — KBS — Wood Dale — $16–$17/hr
• Housekeeper — Lifespace Communities — Lombard — $15.33–$21.07/hr
• Housekeeping Aide — Marriott — Naperville — $17.25–$17.75/hr
• Housekeeper/Janitor — Deerfield Supportive Living — $18/hr
• Housekeeping Aide — Marriott — Lombard — $17.25–$17.75/hr
• Housekeeper — White Lodging — Bedford Park — $17–$18.75/hr
• Housekeeper — Bickford Senior Living — St. Charles — $16–$18.50/hr
• Cleaning Specialist — Luxury Clean Professional Services — Bolingbrook
• Janitor/Facilities Maintenance Associate — Barton Staffing — St. Charles — $22/hr
• Housekeeper — Belmont Village Glenview — $16–$17/hr
• Housekeeper — Sodexo — Aurora — $17–$18/hr

Restaurant / food service

• Kitchen Worker — Wind Creek Chicago Southland
• F&B Attendant — Wind Creek Chicago Southland
• Line Cook — Wind Creek Chicago Southland
• Kitchen Worker — Wind Creek EDR
• Kitchen Worker — Wind Creek Steakhouse
• Kitchen Worker — Wind Creek Food Bazaar
• Server — Wind Creek Oyster Bar
• Host — Wind Creek Steakhouse 
• Dishwasher — Casa Tulum — Chicago — $17.50–$19/hr
• Dishwasher — Bavette's — Chicago — $18/hr
• Prep Cook/Dishwasher — B Select Services — Chicago — $20/hr
• Cashier/Food Service Worker — Sodexo/UIC — Chicago — $18.65/hr
• Cashier/Food Service Worker — Sodexo/UIC — Chicago — $18.40–$19/hr
• Server/Cashier — Hattie B's — Chicago — $17.05–$22/hr
• Cashier/Food Runner — Paradise Park — Chicago — $18–$24/hr
• Cashier/Food Runner — Happy Camper Wrigley — Chicago — $18–$24/hr
• Cashier — Buffalo Wild Wings — Chicago — up to $20/hr
• Front-of-House Team Member — Chick-fil-A — Chicago — $17.25+
• Dishwasher/Maintenance — Chick-fil-A — Chicago — $17.25+
• Cashier — Raising Cane's — Chicago — $17.25/hr
• Cashier — Raising Cane's — Morton Grove — $15.50/hr
• Cashier — Raising Cane's — Chicago Ridge — $15.50/hr
• Cashier — Raising Cane's — Arlington Heights — $15.50/hr
• Cashier — Raising Cane's — Joliet — $15.50/hr
• Cashier/Server — Noodles & Company — Chicago — $17.05–$20/hr
• Phone/Host/Cashier — Lou Malnati's — Chicago — $16.60/hr
• Restaurant Team Member — Mendocino Farms — Chicago — $17–$22/hr
• Crew Member — Chipotle — Willowbrook
• Crew Member — Gong Cha — Naperville
• Host/Hostess/Cashier — IHOP — Chicago 

Retail / grocery

• Night Crew Stocker — Jewel-Osco — Chicago — $17.30–$18.75/hr
• Front-End Entry Level — Jewel-Osco — Chicago — $16.55–$18.25/hr
• Receiving Associate — Trader Joe's — Chicago — $17–$20/hr
• Flex Shopper — Whole Foods — Chicago — $17.50–$25.40/hr
• Retail Sales Associate — Best Buy — Chicago — $15.50–$17.75/hr
• Selling Support Associate — Macy's — State Street — $15.50–$17.75/hr
• Seasonal Sales Associate — Genevieve — Chicago
• Sales Associate — Skokie retail store
• Retail Salesperson — Golden Goose — Chicago
• Cashier — Wingstop — Chicago — $17.50/hr
• Store Cashier/Stocker — ALDI — $19/hr
• Cashier — Buffalo Wild Wings — Skokie — up to $20/hr
• Gas Station Cashier — Meijer — Aurora — $15.25–$16.98/hr

Other basic-entry jobs

• Instacart Shopper — Chicago — no experience required
• Shop & Deliver — Instacart — Chicago — no experience required
• Food Truck Driver/Cashier — Spicy Desi Chicago — $14.50–$17.50/hr
• Non-CDL Local Delivery Truck — Sysco/FreshPoint Chicago — $1,000/week
• Usher/Ticket Taker — Live Nation — Chicago — $17.05/hr
• Medical Screener — BioLife — Chicago — $19+/hr
• Counter Worker — McCormick Place — Chicago — $29.27–$29.47/hr

[1032004]

Safe to say the economy wasn’t so bad in 2024 then?

[Caveira]

6 minutes ago, KSoze said:

Who said anything about everyone being rich? I'm talking about working people being able to eat and keep a roof over your head - basic necessities that are obscured by some government report on who falls below a poverty line that they set. 

But yeah, bootstrap and all that. 

 

Yes. Bootstrap instead of hand out.   Stop being lazy.  I just posted a hundred plus jobs near me.  Go get two of them 

the heard needs to be maintained somehow.   Kick out the illegals too they drain the system our tax $$$ and the job market 

quit whining about anxiety and the like.   Maybe they have anxiety cause they can’t provide for their kids and are lazy bad parents 

Edited September 17 by Caveira

[Scouts Honor]

37 minutes ago, braves121 said:

you really think there are enough jobs in the economy for 36m people to all get second jobs?

 

 

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Safe to say the economy wasn’t so bad in 2024 then?

so it's ok for biden admin to fudge it... 

 

i mean , by the numbers.. is there a  lie in the headline? 

 

 

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, KSoze said:

Who said anything about everyone being rich? I'm talking about working people being able to eat and keep a roof over your head - basic necessities that are obscured by some government report on who falls below a poverty line that they set. 

But yeah, bootstrap and all that. 

 

Have your kids get a job like me and my brothers and sisters do and contribute to the house.  Burger King McDonald’s and all of them are always hiring.   

[braves121]

USA: the greatest and richest country in the world where it's citizens need two jobs and their children to work to afford to live what a joke lmao

[Offthemat]

7 minutes ago, KSoze said:

Paying taxes and subsequently having your liability reduced are not the same thing. They pay taxes on payday - like I said. 

They do not.  Calling FICA “payroll taxes” is a misnomer.  The programs funded by that money is more like insurance, for which you pay “premiums.”  And that family of four qualifies for Medicaid, and will almost certainly benefit far more than what they contribute.