All-Star Team

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Not like he had a terrible tournament.  Could he have been a victim of sad boy hours on the back side?  He had a major, a pin, then lost to eventual champ Robideau in SV in the quarters, then lost his first backside match.

You have to note he beat the champ two weeks before. I don't think its terribly reductionist to say he had a bad tournament for not placing in this context. 

[Simpleman424]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

My general feeling is that if a guy is double bumping weight classes, they generally need to, and I'm not that worried about them being the right size for the weight. It's not like Larkin is going 174 because he is trying to make the lineup. Also, most guys that grow up in the smaller weights and end up wrestling "upper weights" usually transition just fine. 

Cheers to Larkin, your 174 National Champion!

Minto is still at 174…it’s just not happening

[MPhillips]

29 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

Minto is still at 174…it’s just not happening

You're convinced Bassett is going 149?

[Simpleman424]

8 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

You're convinced Bassett is going 149?

No. I’ve seen projections now that are about half and half for the VT lineup.

[jdw21]

125 - McGowan (Princeton)

133 - Davino (tOSU)

141 - Bassett (VT)

149 - Vega (OSU)

157 - Taylor (Nebraska)

165 - Blaze (Purdue)

174 - Messenbrink (PSU)

184 - McEnelly (Minnesota)

197 - Little (Little Rock)

285 - Kueter (Iowa)

Edited September 14 by jdw21

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, Simpleman424 said:

No. I’ve seen projections now that are about half and half for the VT lineup.

There are new projections? Who was projecting him at 149?

[ionel]

32 minutes ago, jdw21 said:

125 - McGowwan (Princeton)

133 - Davvino (tOSU)

141 - Basett (VT)

149 - Vegga (OSU)

157 - Tayylor (Nebraska)

165 - Blazze (Purdue)

174 - Messenbrink (PSU)

184 - McEnely (Minnesota)

197 - Litle (Little Rock)

285 - Kuetter (Iowa)

ftfy

[Simpleman424]

27 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

There are new projections? Who was projecting him at 149?

Who knows what I was looking at…probably something in the world of X. 141 it is…and he’s likely your national champ.

[MoveCountermove]

6 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

You have to note he beat the champ two weeks before. I don't think its terribly reductionist to say he had a bad tournament for not placing in this context. 

I wrote a reply that didn’t save, but this was more or less what I said, but I didn’t say he had a bad tournament, just felt he under achieved. When I filled my brackets out I had him somewhere top 3-5 I think

[Hammerlock3]

18 minutes ago, MoveCountermove said:

I wrote a reply that didn’t save, but this was more or less what I said, but I didn’t say he had a bad tournament, just felt he under achieved. When I filled my brackets out I had him somewhere top 3-5 I think

yeah I was saying I'd call it a bad tournament. If you are going from a coaches mentality and you have to bottom line it I think you have to, but generally i'm using fan mentality on here, and I could imagine a scenario where a high seed doesn't place you could still claim that person wrestled well. 

[MoveCountermove]

49 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

yeah I was saying I'd call it a bad tournament. If you are going from a coaches mentality and you have to bottom line it I think you have to, but generally i'm using fan mentality on here, and I could imagine a scenario where a high seed doesn't place you could still claim that person wrestled well. 

I agree on all points. I knew you weren’t suggesting I said he had a bad tournament, I was just iterating that, in my unsaved post, I didn’t put it that way, but I said the same things you are saying. Overall expected more from him and would view it as disappointing/underachieving. Thought he would knock Catrabone out of the tournament 

[nhs67]

11 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Mark Perry is an ok example, but you could point out he won the gorrian (pin guy award at NCAAs i can't spell) his year at 174 so he can't have been that uneffective. Not an open and shut opinion on my part. 

A large part of the idea is that scramblers typically have the "hips/junk in the trunk/pop" to bail themselves out of trouble, I dont think think larkin is gonna be able to keep his pop going up two weights (perry and herbert being the textbook example of this). He's a very good athlete, dangerous, but in a rangey snakey way not an explosion way. It took taylor 2 years to make himself a 86k, I don't think larkin, who wrestled 149 last year, can make himself big enough. imho... 

The Devil's Advocate to this is that I don't think Monster Mitch will be the bigger wrestler in any match he wrestles this year (if at 174lbs).  He looks like he wrestles 165lbs because he doesn't feel like taking a piss to make 157lbs.

[nhs67]

11 hours ago, BruceyB said:

My general feeling is that if a guy is double bumping weight classes, they generally need to, and I'm not that worried about them being the right size for the weight. It's not like Larkin is going 174 because he is trying to make the lineup. Also, most guys that grow up in the smaller weights and end up wrestling "upper weights" usually transition just fine. 

Cheers to Larkin, your 174 National Champion!

Actually, both Larkin brothers are going up two weight classes for team purposes.

Manville at 141lbs and Ruiz at 165lbs dictated that the Larkin brothers needed to go 149lbs and 174lbs, respectively.  I.e. they did it to make the team.

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

...  they did it to make the team.

... or they like to eat. 

[BruceyB]

45 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Actually, both Larkin brothers are going up two weight classes for team purposes.

Manville at 141lbs and Ruiz at 165lbs dictated that the Larkin brothers needed to go 149lbs and 174lbs, respectively.  I.e. they did it to make the team.

Maybe they are team players? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kaleb gets the better of Ruiz and just feels like it's better for him to be the one to bump up to 174. At minimum that would likely be a season long roster battle.

And Manville is dictating what Kyler is doing? The Manville that ended his season losing 7 of 8 matches and 6 of those losses were against guys outside of the top 20? Larkin meanwhile only lost to Jax, Seidel, and Knox all season.. I'm not buying that one.

I would agree that the are going up two weights for team purposes. But not because they couldn't win the spot over a likely friend/teammate. Either way, I feel the way I feel about Kaleb Larkin this season. I am picking him to make the NCAA finals this year.

[MoveCountermove]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Maybe they are team players? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kaleb gets the better of Ruiz and just feels like it's better for him to be the one to bump up to 174. At minimum that would likely be a season long roster battle.

And Manville is dictating what Kyler is doing? The Manville that ended his season losing 7 of 8 matches and 6 of those losses were against guys outside of the top 20? Larkin meanwhile only lost to Jax, Seidel, and Knox all season.. I'm not buying that one.

I would agree that the are going up two weights for team purposes. But not because they couldn't win the spot over a likely friend/teammate. Either way, I feel the way I feel about Kaleb Larkin this season. I am picking him to make the NCAA finals this year.

Well…you said what I was unwilling to, due to laziness and not wanting to type it all out. But, yes, I agree. My immediate thought was that the Larkin boys bumping 2 weights was not as a result of Manville/Ruiz forcing them out of the lineup, but a result of the Larkins being superior wrestlers and offering the ASU team as a whole a higher floor by each bumping 2 weights. Arguments can be made, but I’d be very surprised if Manville had made that kind of turn and is putting it on Kyler all of a sudden. Those two are in different leagues, I think

[MoveCountermove]

8 hours ago, ionel said:

... or they like to eat. 

[MoveCountermove]

Fun exercise! I think I’m settling around here:

125 - Provo

133 - Davino

141 - Bassett

149 - Vega

157 - Trelly

165 - Blaze

174 - Mesenbrink

184 - MacEnelly

197 - Little

HWT - Kueter

 

Rather fun to ruminate over which guy to take from certain teams at certain weights. 

[MPhillips]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I'm not buying that one.

nhs67 isn't a storyteller by any means.

I like Larkin as well.

[ionel]

11 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Actually, both Larkin brothers are going up two weight classes ...

Actually Kaleb started last season at 149 thru NDI so thats going up 3 weight classes in one year.  I think the Larkins are just growing boys.  

[MoveCountermove]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Actually Kaleb started last season at 149 thru NDI so thats going up 3 weight classes in one year.  I think the Larkins are just growing boys.  

Def both have the frame for more good weight, but I would question how it might change their flexibility and abilities to scramble. Also, they may just be genetically lean, so might not change as much shape

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, MoveCountermove said:

may just be genetically lean, so might not change as much shape

Tempe has In-N-Out Burger ... I think they will be fine.  

[MoveCountermove]

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

Tempe has In-N-Out Burger ... I think they will be fine.  

In-N-Out is sorta meh IMO. Was super hyped and did not live up the several times I tried it

[ionel]

57 minutes ago, MoveCountermove said:

In-N-Out is sorta meh IMO. Was super hyped and did not live up the several times I tried it

We went to Tucson for Christmas 3.5+ yr ago had In-N-Out for Chistmas dinner.  Moreover if the Panda likes In-N-Out you can learn to like it.  

[jdw21]

20 hours ago, ionel said:

ftfy

Apparently, I don't know how to spell these names