juniorvarsity Posted August 3 Posted August 3 6 hours ago, Bulldozer Without Brakes said: someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Team USA's U20 FS team is: 57 kg: Isaiah Cortez 61 kg: Aaron Seidel 65 kg: Bo Bassett 70 kg: Landon Robideau 74 kg: Jayden James 79 kg: Ryan Burton 86 kg: Aeoden Sinclair 92 kg: Jimmy Mastny 97kg: Michael Boyle 125kg: Dreshaun Ross Which team will do better?
LJB Posted August 3 Posted August 3 23 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said: Would you mind telling me about the reason you call it th Schultz rule? It was informally called the Schultz rule because it was enacted after Colton had to make a choice between participating for the senior spot or the U23 spot one year… he failed to make the senior team and the questioned was raised if that was the best decision for our country to not have Colton be our U23 rep… the top 3 age eligible senior was the automatically given the spot the next year and has been the norm since… 1
Simpleman424 Posted August 3 Posted August 3 27 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said: Which team will do better? Honestly I think I lean the U20 team…
Bulldozer Without Brakes Posted August 3 Posted August 3 18 hours ago, juniorvarsity said: Which team will do better? U23 worlds is usually weaker so I'll go with U23. 1
LJB Posted August 3 Posted August 3 leg grabbing U20 is still probably tougher... greco you would have to go weight by weight to decide which was harder that year between U20 and U23 and every year U23 gets a little tougher... 1
MPhillips Posted August 4 Posted August 4 4 hours ago, LJB said: every year U23 gets a little tougher... It could only get better. It's been the step child. .
LJB Posted August 4 Posted August 4 Just now, MPhillips said: It could only get better. It's been the step child. not really... universities, yes... but ever since it was made U23 it has garnered much more prestige... every year at U23, a senior greco medalist gets bounced and doesn't make repechage... every... single... year...
MPhillips Posted August 4 Posted August 4 25 minutes ago, LJB said: but ever since it was made U23 it has garnered much more prestige... That's what I was getting at. .
juniorvarsity Posted August 4 Posted August 4 2 hours ago, LJB said: not really... universities, yes... but ever since it was made U23 it has garnered much more prestige... every year at U23, a senior greco medalist gets bounced and doesn't make repechage... every... single... year... Can't speak too much on Greco, but from minimal watching, I have sensed that the variation in medalists in Greco seema high. I notice returning gold medalists losing at worlds and it feels like I don't consistently see returning gold medalists repeat. Versus freestyle, it feels more consistent. What do you think? This is coming from someone who literally only watches semis and medal matchs at Worlds for Greco.
MPhillips Posted August 4 Posted August 4 8 hours ago, juniorvarsity said: from someone who literally only watches semis and medal matchs at Worlds .
LJB Posted August 4 Posted August 4 10 hours ago, juniorvarsity said: Can't speak too much on Greco, but from minimal watching, I have sensed that the variation in medalists in Greco seema high. I notice returning gold medalists losing at worlds and it feels like I don't consistently see returning gold medalists repeat. Versus freestyle, it feels more consistent. What do you think? This is coming from someone who literally only watches semis and medal matchs at Worlds for Greco. international Greco is just wildly more competitive and the very nature of the sport makes the results very unpredictable... you can make zero mistakes in greco and still lose... there is no running and picking your spots from 3' away... it is constant engagement and upper body warfare... it is a game of millimeters... leg grabbing can be "gamed" with strategies that force an opponent to have to wrestle outside of their comfort zone... there is absolutely no comfort zone in greco... 1
ionel Posted August 4 Posted August 4 4 hours ago, LJB said: international Greco is just wildly more competitive and the very nature of the sport makes the results very unpredictable... you can make zero mistakes in greco and still lose... there is no running and picking your spots from 3' away... it is constant engagement and upper body warfare... it is a game of millimeters... leg grabbing can be "gamed" with strategies that force an opponent to have to wrestle outside of their comfort zone... there is absolutely no comfort zone in greco... .
juniorvarsity Posted August 6 Posted August 6 On 8/4/2026 at 9:07 AM, LJB said: international Greco is just wildly more competitive and the very nature of the sport makes the results very unpredictable... you can make zero mistakes in greco and still lose... there is no running and picking your spots from 3' away... it is constant engagement and upper body warfare... it is a game of millimeters... leg grabbing can be "gamed" with strategies that force an opponent to have to wrestle outside of their comfort zone... there is absolutely no comfort zone in greco... That's a strong statement sayings it's wildly more competitive. Its hard to strongly argue against since there is a lot of variation in results. My perspective, the rules level the playing field artificially, making upset wins much easier to pull off with forced par terre and passivity. It feels like the format itself introduces randomness that makes it tough for consistency. How do you not want to point to the refs half the time your kids lose a close match? Neither sport has a comfort zone. Not sure I'd say freestyle can be "gamed" in comparison to Greco. Greco is highly technical but less dynamic. You often leave the match knowing who the better wrestler is and don't feel like the ref gave it to the other guy. It happens in freestyle, but more so about how the points were awarded versus shot clocks.
LJB Posted August 6 Posted August 6 42 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said: How do you not want to point to the refs half the time your kids lose a close match? the easy answer is because i rarely if ever feel like the international refs are not making the right call... admittedly there are times mid match when i am watching as a "dad" and my initial emotions might make me think i see something different from the reality and almost 100% of the time i rewatch immediately after with an impartial perspective and see what the call was and understand the justification... i can only think of one time internationally i felt like a bad call lost one of them a match and it was not egregious by any means... i just saw it differently... the fact of the matter is that is known that americans are rarely if ever going to get any 50/50 call overseas and that has been preached from before either ever went overseas... it is just a known fact and it is on them to make it definitive where it can not be decided by someone else... plus, we are just not a family of whiners... people who want to make excuses always manage to find one... now, with that being said... every match domestically i am always scared to death an incompetent crew is going to make a horrible call and that has happened many times... again, that is a known thing and is up to them to make sure they do not allow a match to be decided by someone else... as to the rest... leg grabbing 100% can be gamed... the constant pawing at the face from 3' away is so annoying to watch and happens with entirely too much frequency... why? because you can game the playing field by not engaging... it you are not engaged in actual wrestling that is 100% a comfort zone... not sure how it can be seen any other way... and the reality is free is just less competitive top to bottom and the absolute best are able to distance themselves from the field much easier and definitively than in greco... you can say that is artificial because of the rule set and call wins that do not follow a ranking or seed an "upset" but that is just a "fans" perspective and those are rarely indicative of the actual truth... the reality is the overwhelming majority of "fans" in this country simple are not educated enough to understand what they are seeing in greco and those "upsets" are not the "upsets" that the seeding or ranking or results from last year might indicate to someone who does not follow the sport... if you were to watch these athletes compete from the time they were kids and see all the others who fell away by natural selection into seniors then you might have a better appreciation that they are all straight killers in international greco... the sport is just approached at a different level overall internationally and it is easy to see from the entry lists at the ranking series as compared to free... again, one would never know if they simply DO NOT KNOW... whatever... "fans" either get it or they don't and nothing that comes out of me banging away at these keys is going to make one bit of a difference to someone who has already had their opinions given to them already... i am OK with that...
juniorvarsity Posted August 8 Posted August 8 On 8/5/2026 at 10:13 PM, LJB said: the easy answer is because i rarely if ever feel like the international refs are not making the right call... admittedly there are times mid match when i am watching as a "dad" and my initial emotions might make me think i see something different from the reality and almost 100% of the time i rewatch immediately after with an impartial perspective and see what the call was and understand the justification... i can only think of one time internationally i felt like a bad call lost one of them a match and it was not egregious by any means... i just saw it differently... the fact of the matter is that is known that americans are rarely if ever going to get any 50/50 call overseas and that has been preached from before either ever went overseas... it is just a known fact and it is on them to make it definitive where it can not be decided by someone else... plus, we are just not a family of whiners... people who want to make excuses always manage to find one... now, with that being said... every match domestically i am always scared to death an incompetent crew is going to make a horrible call and that has happened many times... again, that is a known thing and is up to them to make sure they do not allow a match to be decided by someone else... as to the rest... leg grabbing 100% can be gamed... the constant pawing at the face from 3' away is so annoying to watch and happens with entirely too much frequency... why? because you can game the playing field by not engaging... it you are not engaged in actual wrestling that is 100% a comfort zone... not sure how it can be seen any other way... and the reality is free is just less competitive top to bottom and the absolute best are able to distance themselves from the field much easier and definitively than in greco... you can say that is artificial because of the rule set and call wins that do not follow a ranking or seed an "upset" but that is just a "fans" perspective and those are rarely indicative of the actual truth... the reality is the overwhelming majority of "fans" in this country simple are not educated enough to understand what they are seeing in greco and those "upsets" are not the "upsets" that the seeding or ranking or results from last year might indicate to someone who does not follow the sport... if you were to watch these athletes compete from the time they were kids and see all the others who fell away by natural selection into seniors then you might have a better appreciation that they are all straight killers in international greco... the sport is just approached at a different level overall internationally and it is easy to see from the entry lists at the ranking series as compared to free... again, one would never know if they simply DO NOT KNOW... whatever... "fans" either get it or they don't and nothing that comes out of me banging away at these keys is going to make one bit of a difference to someone who has already had their opinions given to them already... i am OK with that... Hey man. I really appreciate your reponse. I'm not a hater. My opinions were not given to me, but just personal obsevations. I've never heard anyone bring up the things I brought up here. I am just curious to your thoughts on what I've noticed. I'm giving you a bird's eye view from a freestyle/folkstyle guy - as are most Americans. I can't argue your point about highly ranked or seeded guys losing not being a surprise to actual Greco fans. We see that in freestyle too. I just know the names, unlike in Greco. But it's always a big deal when a returning world champ loses and it apparently happens more often in Greco. Which honestly is more fun. Seeing Taylor and Yazdani run 86kg for some years made some boring brackets. Even if the refs aren't making the wrong calls, the ref is a much bigger factor in the match than in freestyle. Faking and clearing ties from distance is a requirement in freestyle because you're going for the legs. You have to get underneath the the head and hands. It's not gaming if everyone is doing it. Same thing happens in Greco but much closer. Guys are chest to chest just blocking with zero intent to score, but to just hold center and work for passivity. It just looks busier since they are attached. It's not 100% offense in either sport. But yes, it seems freestyle has more guys that separate themselves from the field. I say rules, you say depth. I am going to watch more Greco and we can revisit this.
LJB Posted August 8 Posted August 8 I hope you do continue to watch more Greco… U20s start next weekend… we have a senior contingent going to Poland last week of the month…
Simpleman424 Posted August 9 Posted August 9 2 hours ago, LJB said: I hope you do continue to watch more Greco… U20s start next weekend… we have a senior contingent going to Poland last week of the month… Seems as good a place as any but here you go LJB… 1
LJB Posted August 11 Posted August 11 https://www.themat.com/news/2026/august/11/bowling-iv-khosravy-return-to-u20-world-championships-for-u-s-greco-roman-squad-competing-in-bratislava a pre-view of our athletes competing at Slovakia in the best and most popular style on the planet... 1
ScottishSteel Posted August 13 Posted August 13 On 8/8/2026 at 6:41 PM, LJB said: I hope you do continue to watch more Greco… U20s start next weekend… we have a senior contingent going to Poland last week of the month… Beavs got a guy on the U20 Greco squad and I just had surgery today for a double collarbone fracture so I plan on getting up early to watch and take my pain meds all next week Irrationally proud former WPIAL wrestler No Scotland, No Party . . . Go Beavs
bnwtwg Posted August 13 Posted August 13 4 hours ago, ScottishSteel said: Beavs got a guy on the U20 Greco squad and I just had surgery today for a double collarbone fracture so I plan on getting up early to watch and take my pain meds all next week Both sides? Ouch! i am an idiot on the internet
ScottishSteel Posted August 13 Posted August 13 3 hours ago, bnwtwg said: Both sides? Ouch! No, one side just in multiple places so 3 pieces Irrationally proud former WPIAL wrestler No Scotland, No Party . . . Go Beavs
LJB Posted August 14 Posted August 14 4 collar bones in my days chasing a checkered flag... good looking out, brother... anyway... U20 media guide... https://book.usawrestling.org/books/2026-U20-World-Championships-Media-Guide/#p=8
Jackson Lininger Northern York, Pennsylvania Class of 2027 Committed to Slippery Rock Projected Weight: 149
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