What current wrestler stalls the most?

[mattramosjr]

In my opinion it is either Marc-Anthony McGowan or Rocco. McGowan style infuriates me, just watch his match vs moran or luke during the season. Neither of these guys barely take shots. When I'm watching either of them it just makes me want to turn the tv off. The ncaa has to do something to counter boring styles like these guys. 

[ScarletKnight]

McGowan had a DQ loss for stalling (against Lillendahl).  Did anyone else have one?

 

Blaze seems to go out of bounds a lot 

[Konquest]

For all the talk about how exciting and wide-open 184 would be this past season, the actual matches between the top guys were pretty boring.  Angelo Ferrari and Rocco Welsh are world class wrestlers, but we all know how their matches are going to go.  

[MoveCountermove]

MAM championship match was one of the worst I’ve watched in a long time. I’d rather watch someone get smoked 16-1 or something. I cannot speak to his entire match history, tho.

Idk nearly enough to pick a single guy out for this, but I would love to see some manner in which stalling hits sooner, and we can turn up the intensity with stall calls or points in the waning seconds of a match. 

I’ll also say, even when I watch a Michigan guy go up like 3-2 with no stall calls, I still dislike watching them flee the circle and endure that free stalling warning just to chew up the final 10-20 seconds. 

One of the most glaring issues with this problem and stalling calls in general is the lack of legitimate concrete criteria. It’s essentially at the discretion of the referees. Yes, there are some guidelines to help define it, but it should be more clear cut.

I would also like to see a shot clock implemented in some fair fashion of some form or another. I like that it encourages offense and tries to help move the match along. I get that it may be a detriment to many guys who use the first period to measure their opponents and download data, but on the whole I’d prefer to see it vs. not; I’d rather watch less matches that are tied 1-1 at the end of 3 periods.

Along these lines, I like that takedowns have been upgraded to 3 points to try to force more action.

I forget where I was reading it or watching it (Flo maybe), but this (stalling) was discussed elsewhere and I saw some decent ideas. One was to get rid of the warning; start giving points on the first call, and stop making it like 5 calls for DQ - 1 pt, 1 pt., 2 pts., maybe one more “points” call or else DQ on #4. I’m sorry for anyone that screws over, but by stalling call number 2, if you aren’t changing what you are doing, then it’s on you. 

Some kind of push out rule could be helpful, I guess, as well. Not a huge fan of that, but if you just consider fleeing the mat another form of stalling and wrap them all into the same punishment, now I think we are cooking with gas. 

Also, while we are on this topic, I think team scoring needs an overhaul as well. Not to thread-jack, but winning by 1-1 with riding time point to make it 2-1 shouldn’t be scored the same as winning 8-1, where you generated offense and, on the scoreboard, dominated the match (either a few takedowns or some turns). In one case, maybe you wasted the first and traded escapes then won with RT or a stall call or in OT or whatever. In the other, you generated offense and got after your opponent, and you didn’t Tech or Major them, but you still won soundly. I think changes to team scoring in some capacity could change the way kids wrestle to the whistle.

I know it’s a substantially more dangerous position to be in, but I’d at least prefer kids to get in on the legs and try to hold on to burn time, and let that be the stalling calls…it forces continued action and gives the other guy a chance instead of chasing him around the circle for 22 seconds while he gets one stall warning about 15 seconds into the chase.

TL;DR: stalling sucks and I want to see it used more aggressively to rein in the fleeing of the mat, and eliminate the warning and start costing points immediately. Whatever we do, the point is to get 3 FULL periods of action, whistle to whistle. The current landscape doesn’t have this

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Take a look at the average points per match scored by Rocco.  Aside from his matches against other top 4 guys at 184 he was scoring lots and lots of points.

[jajensen09]

Insert 90% of Iowas roster here

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

Insert 90% of Iowas roster here

You forgot Trelly

[Gus]

If we are talking about NCAA qualifier/AA type guys then probably McGowan, Facundo, Welsh, Ferrari

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Gus said:

If we are talking about NCAA qualifier/AA type guys then probably McGowan, Facundo, Welsh, Ferrari

Which one? 

[Caveira]

Just make takedowns worth more.  That will surely incentivize people to take more risks 

or so I was told 

[mattramosjr]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight said:

McGowan had a DQ loss for stalling (against Lillendahl).  Did anyone else have one?

 

Blaze seems to go out of bounds a lot 

Big blaze or little Blaze?

[MoveCountermove]

6 minutes ago, mattramosjr said:

Big blaze or little Blaze?

Little, is my assumption.

[Gus]

13 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Which one? 

Yes

[Wrestej]

Stalling is a huge problem in wrestling, even more so the higher the level.  I get it, the goal is to win the match so you aren’t going to put yourself in a dangerous spot.  Until there is a way to be rewarded more for being offensive it is not going to change.  Maybe a push out would help?   Anyway I think stalling is prevalent across the board with the exception of a few a each weight.

[nhs67]

Angelo Ferrari, Dee Lockett, and anyone else who deliberately drops to a knee more than once in a match to play patty cake.

[Caveira]

30 minutes ago, Wrestej said:

Stalling is a huge problem in wrestling, even more so the higher the level.  I get it, the goal is to win the match so you aren’t going to put yourself in a dangerous spot.  Until there is a way to be rewarded more for being offensive it is not going to change.  Maybe a push out would help?   Anyway I think stalling is prevalent across the board with the exception of a few an each weight.

There is more scoring on average in folkstyle than freestyle at the elite levels. 

[CoachB]

When Brands says in his press conferences that they need to be more aggressive, and the next match 90% of the lineup doesn't even attempt to shoot until the final seconds, what is the disconnect? 

Are they just not listening to him, or is this purposeful strategy sanctioned by TnT employed to give them (in their view) the best chance to win, and the aggressiveness talk is just fodder for the fan base? 

Same for the other stallers whose coaches preach aggressiveness in public comments.

[ScarletKnight]

2 hours ago, MoveCountermove said:

Little, is my assumption.

Yes little.  

[Wrestej]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

There is more scoring on average in folkstyle than freestyle at the elite levels. 

I understand.  This is why I said the higher the level the more stalling.  I didn’t say push out is the answer but it will reward the wrestler who gets singles up in the air or aggressor pushing forward.  Generally the wrestler going forward is the offensive person at that point.  Hard fix to be certain.  

[JeanGuy]

A similar thing happened in the NHL. Through the 80's and earlier the coaching was so bad it was just throw guys out there and let them do their thing. Coaching improved and with that came tactics. Clogging zones, playing team defense and the like. It made coaches jobs safer but almost killed the game as the era of the Z trap was a boring product. Recently the games have seemed to improve.

Some guys are counter wrestlers and some are edge wrestlers. I think the edge guys are a bigger problem. If you have a guy like Marcus Blaze that holds center but is only a counter wrestler can you compel him to take bad shots? It would be nice if there was no strategy and guys just came out and let it fly and maybe get pinned in 30 seconds, but I am not sure the sport should impose a style on the athletes. In F/S I don't see the shot clock raise action nor does the push out really do much. Guys still just wrestle their style.

I would be nice to have an answer that would improve the product but in today's super technical awareness I don't see a path.

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, Wrestej said:

I understand.  This is why I said the higher the level the more stalling.  I didn’t say push out is the answer but it will reward the wrestler who gets singles up in the air or aggressor pushing forward.  Generally the wrestler going forward is the offensive person at that point.  Hard fix to be certain.  

Upwards of 25% of freestyle scoring are pushouts.   

do you know how you penalize people for stalling 

~~> call them for stalling …. <~~
 

Changing “other” rules.  Has not and will not stop stalling.   We’ve already tried changing the rules 50 bazillion times 

[Bacanator]

4 hours ago, ScarletKnight said:

McGowan had a DQ loss for stalling (against Lillendahl).  Did anyone else have one?

Christian Carroll had one in his 7th place match, I wouldn’t count it against him because he was clearly injured but still decided to give it a go

[Dogbone]

2 hours ago, CoachB said:

When Brands says in his press conferences that they need to be more aggressive, and the next match 90% of the lineup doesn't even attempt to shoot until the final seconds, what is the disconnect? 

Are they just not listening to him, or is this purposeful strategy sanctioned by TnT employed to give them (in their view) the best chance to win, and the aggressiveness talk is just fodder for the fan base? 

Same for the other stallers whose coaches preach aggressiveness in public comments.

Coaching must be super easy.   Well shucks, coach said we need to be more aggressive so I guess we should shoot more... 

By this logic, Cael is either telling Rocco to not shoot against Max and Angelo because it it is a purposeful strategy or there is a disconnect. 

 

[MoveCountermove]

3 hours ago, CoachB said:

When Brands says in his press conferences that they need to be more aggressive, and the next match 90% of the lineup doesn't even attempt to shoot until the final seconds, what is the disconnect? 

Are they just not listening to him, or is this purposeful strategy sanctioned by TnT employed to give them (in their view) the best chance to win, and the aggressiveness talk is just fodder for the fan base? 

Same for the other stallers whose coaches preach aggressiveness in public comments.

This is essentially my gripe with Michigan, and what feels like has to be a strategy implemented by the coaches. I don’t understand how scores and scores of kids can come through a room (U of M in this case) and just wind up wrestling the same ass match; 3 minutes of nothing but maybe a half shot, someone goes down and gets 1, stand and lockup for the rest of 2 min, other guy goes down and gets 1, stall out until about 30s to go, then attempt some form of maybe a shot that maybe you changed angles or levels on, or maybe you set up in some capacity…and hopefully you finish and that’s the match.

 

Stop me if you’ve seen this recipe before…

[mr.nonothingatall]

1 minute ago, MoveCountermove said:

This is essentially my gripe with Michigan, and what feels like has to be a strategy implemented by the coaches. I don’t understand how scores and scores of kids can come through a room (U of M in this case) and just wind up wrestling the same ass match; 3 minutes of nothing but maybe a half shot, someone goes down and gets 1, stand and lockup for the rest of 2 min, other guy goes down and gets 1, stall out until about 30s to go, then attempt some form of maybe a shot that maybe you changed angles or levels on, or maybe you set up in some capacity…and hopefully you finish and that’s the match.

 

Stop me if you’ve seen this recipe before…