Dogbone

16 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

for his mma career its mildly concerning because ive seen him training his striking since he left okie state and there has been seemingly no progression 

100%. Equally concerning is he keeps posting it like its impressive. 

18 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I agree that Vito's win against RBY was very impressive, I still sort of agree with Le Duke that he and Star are in different categories.  I don't think that is a slight to Vito in anyway as he is one of the greats, but being on the verge of 4/5 is in it's own category with those that have or are in the running to achieve that.

I would agree if we were discussing the Greats or 4Xers.

Vito only got brought into the conversation after Le Duke claimed that "only remotely comparable people " are the two guys who can be 4xers (KOT and AB) to which someone mentioned Vito's freestyle credentials are better.  Then the goalpost were move to just folkstyle.

45 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Fail to see the relevance. Vito may win two titles to Carter’s likely 4.

4-3-1-X
Again, the only two current wrestlers who should be mentioned in the same conversation as Carter re: Folkstyle wrestling are KOT and AB. People who both have the chance to win 4.


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That's crazy.   You actually can discuss guys who are a similar tier even if they don't have the exact same resume.  

Vito's title was more impressive than any of Carters and he has more wins over National Champs in the finals than Carter. 

Carter's finals wins: Kemerer (0 titles), Lewis (1 title), Labs (0 titles)

Vito final wins: RBY (2 Titles).    

2 > 1. 

Vito is also the more accomplished freestyle wrestler.

Don't get me wrong, Carter has had the better career but it is not beneath him to be mentioned in the same thread as Vito. 

What place would the PSU or Iowa transfers on their own?  

What place would an all transfer team place at NCAAs?  got to be top 5 right?

So Gomez has 4 matches right now.  Michigan has duals against Iowa (2/2), Nebraska (2/9), Indiana (2/16) and CMU (2/25) left on their schedule, but Gomez is going to try and qualify 65KG in Mexico Feb 21 - 24.  

Assuming he wrestles Iowa and Nebraska.  Skips CMU. Indiana might be tough if he needs to get down to 143 and travel to Pan Ams 5 days later, he will enter B1Gs with 6 maybe 7 matches.    I assume he will steal someone spot at B1Gs with a good showing. 

After B1Gs, he will have 8+ matches and can get ranked in the Coaches Poll, but won't have an RPI since he won't have 15 matches. 

How much will not having an RPI hurt his seed?  If he doesn't beat Ridge his highest quality win will either be D'Emilio or Webster (Ill) based on Intermat rankings.   Even if he splits with Ridge, he is 8-1 entering NCAAs.   

How does he get seeded?

I just want to add this is an amazing thread and the work @Wrestleknownothing and @gimpeltf provide is invaluable.

Hopefully, PSU either doesn't top 171.5 or they blow past it and we don't have argue over whether the 3 point TD made it easier for PSU to accumulate bonus points that Iowa didn't get to enjoy in 1997. 

2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Gomez is interesting because with no van ness he is definitely talented enough to win the whole weight but I could also see him losing a R12 match to a guy like Ty Watters whose going to attack and come forward for 7 straight minutes 

With Van Ness, Gomez isn't talented enough to win it all?   I didn't think Van Ness was a next topic, national champ. 

Just now, jchapman said:

That's a big "if", I think Askren respects the Missouri program too much.

I agree.  I don't think he would even call, but I also don't think he would get/accept the job so if we are going to play in hypotheticals, lets at least have some fun with it.

15 hours ago, MizzouFan01 said:

Hypothetically speaking let’s say Bono gets fired, Askren, Ben or Max are hired. How long would it take for them to be Tier 2 behind PSU? 2/3 recruiting cycles? How many former AWA wrestlers hit the portal to comeback home? As stated before by others who knows if the Askrens even want to coach college. We know Ben more so than Max like the freedom to do things their way. But if I’m the Wisconsin AD, I’m making strong push. Those 2/3 years of mediocrity, what they are now,  have to be worth it if flips the program around. 

It's a great question.  I can't imagine any former AWA would be off the table. I don't think KOT is going anywhere but if Ben called and asked him, it's probably not a hard no. 

2 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

Would any DI program, not just Wisconsin, hire a new coach that has no recent experience coaching in college, and also working with administrators in a college athletic department?

This is a message board where Kyle Dake/David Taylor/JB are suggested for every college opening including the not vacant Iowa job.   Your logic and reason have no place here. 

The no brainer, imo, is Tony Ramos.  Let him be close to home/Izzy/ recruit Chicagoland.  I imagine he can build a relationship with Askrens and they don't have to deal with Boosters/Admins, etc. 

47 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

FFS, all I said, in response to a claim that seeding 1 through 4 doesn't matter, was that in this particular case it did matter.  I didn't make any claims *at all* about what the seeding should have been, if indeed it should have been different.

It did??   There is no evidence to suggest Foca could have or would have beaten Labs during that tournament.  He didn't get the opportunity but that doesn't mean it did matter. 

Of course, every tournament has examples were the the eventual runner up didn't beat the eventual 3rd and the hypothetical finals would be different.  

Seeding 1-4 absolutely has an impact and is important. Foca just isn't a great example.

2 hours ago, TwoJoints said:

I understand seeding can be a point of pride, but IMHO being seeded 1 thru 4 is basically meaningless. In the end you’ve got to beat the best anywhere. Where it might make a difference is in the middle seeds (eg. the true 6 ranked as a 9) where it might cause you to encounter a higher seed a bout earlier in the bracket.

It is not a point of pride.  It sets up the Semifinal matches.  If Carr and KOT wrestle twice before NCAAs, I don't think we need to see that match on Friday night just because MM or Ramirez didn't have the same schedule.  

Of course it matters for the lower seeds as well as it sets up their path to AA.  

I thought regardless what the formula spits out, the committee can move a guy a spot or two.

To me, the committee should be splitting up Carr and O'Toole (i.e. don't let them be the #2 & #3 seeds or the #1 and #4 seeds).

If a formula splits out MM #1, I am okay with it as long as the B12 runner up isn't on the same side as the B12 champion.

28 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You really think Brands is close to 174 right now?

I would bet he goes 184 and Assad at 197, if he beats Glazier out, with Cassioppi at 285 (he would be a ~230lber).

The one this ends up screwing again would be Swafford.

Today? No.  But I view it as 100% hypothetical and if he was given the green light today, I think he could make 174 by March. 

Swafford is a great story but he is probably a fringe NC and not a AA threat.  I don't think he transferred in expecting to start.

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I’m sure they’ve been training.  I question how close they are to weight though.  I’d be kinda surprised to see Nelson at 174, especially with Kennedy doing fairly well.

But probably all a moot point considering it seems highly unlikely the NCAA reduces their suspension

I know Kennedy has won 3 in a row but he beat the #41, #51 and #52 guys per wrestlestat.  Brands is the returning 5th place finisher. 

I don't think it matters since they are not going to get their eligibility back but Nelson would be the guy. 

What is the real purpose of the ORS anyway?  I agree that AJ is abusing the system, but does anyone with a shot of making the team even use it anymore? For example, Spencer didn't take one and I don't think Yianni did either.  It seems the guys with Oly goals would rather exhaust their eligibility so they can focus on their Freestyle career than use the ORS to extend their Folk careers.    That could be the impact of having an extra covid year, too.

Even this year, the guys with the brightest freestyle potential are not using them (Vito, Fix,O'Toole, Carr, Star and AB).  Heck I thought I heard Star is going to try 74KG but is wrestling a folk style season 10 LBs higher.  (Side note, how funny would it of been if Fix used his and then competed in next years NCAAs at 27 with eligibility)

Counter point would probably be Micic who might of used 2 ORS (?) so it may have a purpose.  I don't know that the ORS had an actual impact on him being successful in Freestyle, but at least there is a guy who took one and had success.

I miss National Duals.

4 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

The difference is I’m only trolling the other guy with my name and not the whole board. 

You sure about that??

Do you really think the rest of the board is glad when they see a JC imposter post and all go "glad that guy is here making more troll posts" 

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

Didn't it say " Court filings ... also allege one DCI agent conducted a “warrantless” investigation."   Who do you think made the filing?  This is what attorneys are going to do.  Maybe they found something but its going to take time.  Have we ever seen the NCAA suddenly change course.  Fillings ... oh if there are fillings & allegations maybe we should reconsider.  

I thought it was the defense attorney for the ISU athletes that filed their response but admittedly I have not followed this latest round closing.  To your point, that is what the defense attorney should be doing, it doesn't make it fact.  (I was just trying to help bring more context to Dresser's comment about the phones being taken and the potential defense that Dresser seem to be parroting).  It's possible that the evidence found on the phones could get thrown out but that also doesn't mean they will get off.   As you noted the legal case will take time and NCAA is not quick to decide anything. 

17 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I like listening to Dresser talk, if they had a warrant for the phone I’m not sure they have much ground to stand on arguing that they were taken.

 

I’m not a lawyer and just don’t understand what was mishandled. 

The report said something to the effect that there were warrant-less searches.  It is not clear if the paper he referenced to take phones a warrant or not. It could also be that they didn't have a warrant to use the geofencing which led them to taking of the phones.  As others have mentioned, that probably only helps them legally and not with the NCAA.

The team race will still be very boring this year due to PSU's combination of transfers and homegrown talent.

Regardless, I hope the Iowa and ISU guys get a year back, whether this year or next.   

Yes, they broke a rule, but the punishment has been far too steep IMO.  Throw in the manner in which this came to light and I have a hard time thinking this was just.

I don't think the lack of matches hurts the individual wrestlers. If anything, the lighter workload probably has them fresher for the 3 day grind of NCAAs.   They are practicing and getting better leading up to March, just in the room and not in competition.

It only hurts the fans who want to enjoy the season and get excited leading up to NCAAs.  I don't think we will go back to guys wrestling 40 matches a season, but we need to find a way to make the 20 matches they do wrestle meaningful. 

43 minutes ago, jchapman said:

There might be an injury/illness/weight issue with Smith.  He did not look good against Minny.  

Really? I thought it was the most competitive tech fall I have ever seen.  Smith was very close to finishing the double twice that turned into 10 points for McKee. 

Agree that it wasn't a duck for seeding purposes.

What I find interesting is Nebraska also sat ranked wrestlers last year vs Purdue, including Cronin against Ramos. 

Maybe the dual just falls at the time of year when guys need rest.

With Ersland a long time assistant under Manning I assume they have a good relationship so it could just be a timing issue.  

There was another MTV True Life: MTV for documentary True Life: I’m on a diet. That followed Cory Cooperman around his senior (?) year.