Dogbone

10 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Calling ryan a POS for one outburst is beyond uncharitable.  He runs a great program and has improved the lives of hundreds of kids.  

Did you all forget that these are D1 coaches who ALL lose their sh*t at one point or another? These are the most competitive, prominent people in the sport.  T&T tell the world and everyone in it to f*ck itself every dual meet, but ryan has one outburst and you want to hang him from a lamppost?

^^^ This^^^^.    We need to be more lenient on what happens between the lines so to speak.  You can be a savage on the mat but still a nice guy.  Even T&T can be maniacs when competing but it doesn't mean they are bad people. 

Look at Ray Lewis, he would kill a wide receiver coming across the middle, but off the field.... Okay bad example. 

I am the minority that I just don't care about these new "records" like 4x and 5x champs when they are the only ones who got 5 tries?  

I just think there would be a whole lot more 4x champs if everyone was given 5 tries.   

Same for CStar being the only 5x champ.   Its very cool for him to say, but if Cael was given a 5th year I am pretty sure he would of been a 5x champ as well.    Its more of matter of timing of when you competed.  

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Agree.  If they DQ Brennan I don’t understand how the guy from Oregon State doesn’t get the bid.  He even beat both of the other participants in the PAC 4 so it’s not like there’s an argument about who was the true 2nd.

I do agree with you, but my guess is the logic is that this is as much the Pac 12's fault as anyones, including the other Pac 12 teams fault for not catching it.   I mean he did compete in 5 pac 12 championship and not the 2021 pac 12s. 

So the NCAA is saying, the Pac 12 sent us an illegible athlete so we go the alternative and not give the Pac 12 another chance.

Imagine if Rock Harrison and Shane Sparks commentated together.   Then you would see some excitement.

Byrd is listed as a junior.  

Gavin Hoffman has used a free year and a medical year (legit, no Tyler Brennan) and graduated high school before Byrd.   

Gable graduated the same year as Hoffman and used a free year plus Oly year.  

Imagine telling an NCAA champ, "Don't wrestle because we are worried you might lose and then the path to the finals will be harder"

The only person getting screwed is the Pac 12 runner up and OSU if they are not given the Pac 12 title. 

Little Rock misapplied the rule, shame on them, but it was a mistake.  Nobody knew who Brennan was, but now they do. He isn't going to AA anyway and by ruling him out, he can claim to be a qualifier who "could of won it" if it weren't for those pesky rules. 

19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I. Said. Photoshop!

I have no issue with the call as-stands.  Freeze-framing and video watching in slow-mo or fast-mo aren't going to do anything to change the result.  If you don't like the result, I suggest you be a part of the solution and go through the process of becoming an official.  It is a thankless, low paying job.  They need the help.

I have only responded in regard to this comment ^^^ and pointed out that the half was in before Van Dee head hit the mat.    I never complained about the refs call.  Sorry to get you all worked up on message board.  I thought we were just discussing a questionable call, pretty common stuff.

Okay I think @Elevator has paid for his sins of calling Vombaur boring.    Back on topic  Here are the matches I would like to see most:

Van Ness v. Henson

Vombaur v. Beau

Kasak v. Shapiro

DT coached Hamiti v. Haines

NOT Plott v. Keck. 

A.J. vs. top 3 in the B1G.

8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Photoshop!

See above.

False again.  My comment had nothing to do with the photo that I didn't see before I posted.

Go watch the video on normal speed.  He picks him up (no half) and then slides it in on the way down.  He has the half in before Van Dee lands on his head.     

It was reviewed and determined to be legal, so while I disagree I can understand a different opinion.  But I can't understand why you need to deny facts like the half being in before they landed.  

4 minutes ago, Elevator said:

nobody wants to watch Vombaur or Beau let alone a snoozefest rematch - avoid at all costs by separating these guys on different sides fo the bracke

 

Vombaur scores a lot of points in his matches and has a high attack rate.   I guess you could say that was typical Beau match but I don't think it has anything to do with Vombaur.  I am curious if Vombaur can do it again.   Are Beau fans scared of the rematch?  

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He didn't have a half until after he slammed him.

False.  He throws the half in while slamming him before Van Dee lands.   He also leaves his feat.

People need to stop with the Iowa can't get past Gable nonsense.  Tom and Terry's style is not the exclusive "Iowa Style" under Gable.

Look at all of the other coaches from the Gable tree.  Schwab, Ryan, etc (so so many more), none of them coach the same style the Brands do.    The Brands style resembles their own style. 

6 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Interesting that Ramos stays above Lilledahl in coaches rank, but Hardy passes Bartlett.  Hardy also now ahead of Bartlett in RPI.

https://theguillotine.com/2025/03/ncaa-releases-final-coaches-rankings-and-final-rpi-rankings/
 

Coaches rewarding the guys who faced tougher schedules, went to CKLV/holiday tournaments, etc.  

Liledahl has the worst loses of anyone being conditioner for a top seed at any weight, but also majored the previous #1 and presumed #1 seed and won the toughest conference.   I don't envy the seeding committee. 

As pointed out in another thread, Bouzoukis also ended Van Dee's tournament with a questionable slam.

Not the best weekend for the young bucks but a change in coaching seems like an overreaction.

I thought for sure there was a mistake or two Tyler Brennan or something but even the Little Rock press release acknowledges he is using a 5th year despite not wrestling in 2021.     Is Little Rock misapplying the covid rule?  Did you need to wrestle in 2021 to get a 5th year or did everyone just get 5 years??

https://katv.com/news/local/little-rock-wrestling-crowned-pac-12-tournament-champions-for-first-time-in-history-college-wrestling-pac-12-wrestling-oregon-state-cal-poly-cal-state-bakersfield-wrestling-ncaa

Kerk avoided getting majored which looked like his goal.   I agree it didn't look like he was trying to win but I think that is because he knew if he opened up, Gable could score more. 

The PSU strategy seemed to be avoid a TD battle and try to win on an escape or RT point. Maybe steal a late TD.      It's likely not going to work but its probably his only chance.  

11 hours ago, cowcards said:

But Brock Hardy did to go CKLV and lost 2x to guys that are going to be behind Vombaur in both the RPI and Coaches ranks. I'm punishing Hardy for 2 losses that are worse than Bartlett's 1 loss. Yes. Absolutely. 

I understand this argument, but it is a 100% an argument that encourages teams to avoid any meaningful competition and I disagree with the impact it creates. 

If you want to encourage teams to wrestle tougher schedules then you need to be more lenient when they lose in those tough schedules or teams will just wrestle as little as possible. 

I am guessing Cael has already figured this out and that is why PSU wrestles a softer schedule than they did 10 years ago.   It sucks for the sport.  

10 hours ago, cowcards said:

Bartlett is 3-0 against the guys that are #2 & #3 in the country. He doesn't have as much of the depth of wins, but he has quality. His loss is to the #5.

Hardy is 5-0 vs. #2, #4, #5. His losses are to #1, #6, #8. 

I think this is the difference in opinion.   Hardy wrestled 7 top ten matches and Barlettt only wrestled 4 (2 at the B1G tourney). 

You can't lost matches you don't wrestle.   So Bartlett is rewarded for not scheduling a tough tourney and then losing before the finals to a lower ranked guy.

Do you reward the guy who put it on the line or punish him because he did it but didn't go unscathed?

41 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Because I know nothing.

How about these guys instead?

• Big 12 Conference Doug Schwab 184
• Big 12 Conference Kevin Dresser 184
• Big Ten Conference Sean Bormet 184
• Big Ten Conference Tom Ryan 184

The last time around Starocci was unanimous. So either Schwab voted for Starocci to be #1 or Schwab's was the low that was thrown out.

Before you posted this, I thought no way will any person put Keck above CStar despite what any metrics splits out.

But would Dresser, Bormet and Ryan stick it to PSU if given the chance        That might be the worst draw possible for PSU (not that it matters).

1 hour ago, cowcards said:

So to be clear, we are discounting the rest of the season when determining seeding? That's fine if so, but it's going to only cause coaches to weaken their schedule as much as possible and dodge more matches than they do. 

It's not discounting the rest of the season. It's giving weight to head to head matchup.   Both guys have 3 losses on the season and Hardy has the head to head.    

You have to consider all the results.  You can't just say Mendez won CKLV so there is no way Hardy can ever be seeded above him, including if he wins the B1G tourney and beats Mendez head to head.  

Missouri being down certainly hurt PSU non conference as they are typically a top 10 team but it did give Haines his only loss and probably cost him the #1 seed.

It's hard to argue with anything Cael does as it all works.  They no longer attend Southern Scuffle or any other meaningful tournament.    They just wrestle their B1G schedule, which almost always includes 3 of the top 5/6 teams in the country.

It doesn't appear they will be adding Ok St to the schedule or attending their national dual tournament, but that could change.

I didn't realize pointing out that PSU doesn't schedule the toughest non conference schedule was that upsetting but I guess when you win all the damn time any slight is upsetting to the fanbase.    9/10 troll work @jajensen09!!

I found the BTN broadcast to be overly draw out.   Should they hold the 3rd and 5th place matches before the finals?   It feels like the finals broadcast could be a better product if you don't have to wait until the 3rd and 5th places matches are completed to move to the next weight and the crowd is yelling at odd times if you are only a TV viewer.

I have attended 2 B1G Championships and also don't like it as an attendee.    The Sunday morning session is just consi semis before a long break until finals.  Then your attention is split when you would like to focus on just the finals matches. 

With TV ratings being important for the sport, should BTN try to make the finals a better product?

12 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, I can see this. Wrestling can also be an exciting sport with no points being scored, so I like that he brings the enthusiasm and the passion, but it's a bit too much at times. MUCH better than the...I think Scottish crew that did the Olympics last year. 

 

As for the B1G crew, I like them(I like Rock as well overall)...my main problem is...is Shane paid by the number of times he says "resilite." 

"As they go off the resilite, as they step onto the resilite, big return to the resilite."

I counted 12 in one match and then it was like hearing canned laugher on a TV show and that's all you can hear, so I REALLY tried to ignore it.

Other than that, he's great. Anyone who is enthusiastic and loves the sport, I'm happy to listen to(mostly). If the worst is being a little too excited or an OBVIOUS endorsement deal, I'll get over it...

Can we add Sparks and Gibbons stupid coffee grinder inside joke to the annoying list?   We get it, you call it a coffee grinder in Wisconsin.   A lot of moves have different names, it doesn't need to be referenced on every single broadcast.

I still like the BTN crew and can certainly get over it but its annoying. 

10 minutes ago, cowcards said:

The coaches might due to recency bias, but they shouldn't. RPI will still have Mendez ahead. 

Why shouldn't Hardy be ranked higher? 

Hardy will have head to head and higher conference finish.  I am presuming rankings.   Even if he is lower in RPI, he should still come out above Mendez.