Jim L

When was the 33-19 final?

Great thread. I love hearing about everyone's wrestling history, from solid DI guys to JV stars. And it seems most have common themes - suffered and loved it, never as good as I wanted to be, too many injuries. It feels like I stumbled into a bar where people are actually interested in hearing about my "glory years", so I'll keep blabbering. Beat a handful of DII and DIII All Americans in college but never made it to nationals. 3-0 as an alumni v. my college in my forties (mostly shows how much the program declined) Beat Steve Mocco in Judo (he was in HS at the time, but placed in US Judo senior nationals the next year). I actually pinned him ( technically a hold down in Judo) Won Pan Am gold medal in BJJ (brown belt in my age divisions, not quite as impressive as it might sound to wrestlers, but still pretty good)

Also should be added (as it always is) that he competed in the era of 10 weight classes.

Yes. DIII and it was a huge part of my college experience. I got better every year and ended up being pretty good DIII guy but nowhere close to where I wanted to be. After I was done there was a hole in my life that I struggled to fill. I competed in Judo and BJJ for many years and that helped but it was never quite the same as competing in collegiate wresting

Not sure how a lack of repeat medalists is definite proof that the weight class is harder. Interesting stats but it is just as easy to say it is a softer weight class because there has been any dominant generational talents who can win year after year.

Respectfully disagree. It may take significant skill to ride or be good on the bottom, that doesn't mean it is great for the sport. I challenge anyone that has DVRed a D1 wrestling match, what are the times you fast forward?

All those guys at least made the national team, never did as well Internationally as they did in the NCAAs. Didnt Mocco wrestle for an Olympic bronze? Lots of really good college wrestlers have done less intentionally Pendleton, Kole Conrad, Darion Caldwell all had multiple wins over guys on your list, but never made repped the US at World or Olympic (pretty sure about that) Ed Ruth, one of the most dominant wrestlers of the decade, made 1 national team and didn't place Going old school Pat Smith never made a national team Going really old school, I don't believe Larry Owings did either

Terrible take by OP.. best interpretation is that YD had not done everything his biggest fans predicted.. yet

Yes, that is what I was trying to recall

Didn't Damion Hahn a haver a victory over a NCAA champ while in HS? Maybe it was "just" an AA

I believe the best D2 and maybe D3 has to offer can compete at the D1 level but that does not meant hey are ready for an All Star event. Big difference between being a competent starter level guy and belonging at an All Star event where traditionally it was #1 v #2

K State attracts that many four star recruits? I don't really follow college football, but that seems very strange

IMO, criteria works in FS because the push out makes it easier to score and eliminate the working out of bounds strategy that happens so often at the end of folkstyle matches

Calling more stealing as a way to improve wrestling just won't work. In a close hard fought match it is really hard to see who is stalling more and deserves to get called. This leads to strategies to do just enough to get to get the ref to call stalling on your opponent... Not what most of us consider "real" wrestling

Clearly you are a wrestlingknownothing and have no respect for the leguons of geriatric wrestling fans you just sent into cardiac arrest but proposing criteria

Folkstyle still overweights the nearfall more than a TD. I think to most folkstyle fans this makes sense, though the old school guys hate seeing 4 points for a tilt. To me taking your opponent off their feet and establishing position deserves more points than a reversal, no logic, just gut feel. In addition, reversal seem relatively rare at the high levels of D1, so not worth fussing over IMO.

Regardless of a single year's result a HS recruit who is a good student and who have parents that value the Ivy league brand can realistically picture themselves going to Princeton and competing for a national title. This will fade for Princeton in a few years if they stop having AA quality guys after Ayres leaves, but another Ivy will take their place behind Cornell as the second best team in the Ivy league and likely have multiple AAs and national contenders as well

IMO, National Champs and All-Americans matter much more than NCAA team points. I would much rather be fan of a team with many AAs and than feeling good about my team finishing 7th or 8th in team points. I know of course, that the number of champs and AAs do align closely with team placement

The rise of the Ivies over the the past decades seemed to have hurt Lehigh's standing where it was the place where you can get a highly rated education and still compete for a national title. Cornell and now Princeton have bested Lehigh fin both areas.

Lots of countries with a wide variety of styles. Lots of traditional belt wrestling. India has sand wrestling, Mongolia has a great traditional wrestling style. Easy to go down an internet rabbit hole on this

Did not know that. Well, I am not going let this new information change my thinking

Surprisingly few differences in match results. IMO, Gross over Wilson always seemed to be a good example of what was wrong with the old scoring system not putting enough emphasis on TDs. Your scenarios assume that both wrestlers would have wrestled the exact same match despite what was on the scoreboard and the new incentive to score TDs. If the new rule does not change the how matches are wrestled there is not much point in the rule change. Just curious, in your re-scoring of the matches did you factor in the new riding time rules, not getting a RT point unless there is exposure?

Of course, this is anecdotal, but just the responses from the coaches on this board show that wrestlers are still focused on being at lower weight classes and it would be difficult for them to maintain their weight throughout a tournament. In addition, almost everyone who has wrestled knows how crappy it is to try to loss/maintain your weight during wrestling season. Beside the unhealthy dehydration/starvation practices, just being constantly focused on your diet and trying to drop a few pounds when you are already in really good shape is no fun. TBH, there is an old school part of me that wants kids today to show the same dedication I did and SUFFER. I also honestly feel there is value for a middle class kid who never will face food insecurity to experience what t like to go to bed hungry. But the down to earth sane part o me knows that this is not good for the sport or the wrestlers. Finally, I know that this is the college section, but I am generalizing for the sport. I will not assume that this makes sense for elite D1 wrestlers, but even most college wrestlers would have a much better experience if they did not have to focus on weight. I also feel that there is large population of wrestlers who might have considered college wrestling but hated the weight management part so much that they passed on college wrestling.

IMO, Hyping winning a 5th title is a little disingenuous. He just career just happen to fall during an unprecedented event in NCAA history. Does anyone think any of the pervious 4Xer wouldn't have won their 5th title had they magically been granted a 5th year after winning #4?

One weigh-in per day and then all the matches follow quickly after. How fast do the Olympics/WC go through the brackets to determine finalists? Two hours? It can be done.