Subs backfiring...Iowa & Mizzou

[maligned]

With at-large bids out now, lineup decisions at Iowa and Mizzou officially ended in disaster.

Voinovich at Iowa gets subbed in for Williams, who, if he'd been allowed to simply finish the season, would have had enough matches, enough ranking, and enough of a resume, that he would have been a shoo-in for an at-large bid to nationals even if he'd gone 0-2 at Big 10s. Instead, the low-match-number guy doesn't come through at Big 10s and doesn't have the resume to get himself a bid.

Similarly at Mizzou, Teague Travis gets put in at 157 for #15-ish 2025 national qualifier J Conway, who's looking at least like a Top 16 or blood rounder early in the year. Travis has a low match number, lays an egg at Big 12s, and doesn't have the resume to get an at-large. Like Williams, Conways's resume was such that even a ho-hum last few weeks and an 0-2 at Big 12s would still have earned an at-large.

In a double-whammy of sorts, Conway wrestles the latter part of the season at 165, is ranked mid-20s, and gets subbed last-minute for Maxx Mayfield because of his upset win over Euston during his "test run" and the assumption that he's headed back to previous form. Mayfield also bombs out at Big 12s, has no resume, and gets no at-large. 

Any lessons here? It definitely seems like it's worth leaving your more-matches/more-resume guy in late in the year if there's any proximity at all in the two candidates' wrestling ability. Seems crazy in hindsight to have Williams or Conway missing from these weights for Iowa and Missouri at nationals.

Edited March 10 by maligned

[Nak21]

Well…dance with the one that brung ya…

Did see this from the Iowa board - “Cael is playing chess, Brands is eating checkers”, made me giggle.

[Dogbone]

Meh.  I say start your best lineup and let the chips fall way they may.  

Where any of those guys going to make a run to AA? Probably not, so start the guys that give you the best chance.  

[Wrestej]

Teague Travis is and was definitely the better option than Conway for Mizzou.  You don’t have to look to hard to find on these forums that majority of Mizzou fans thought there be other moves made to the line-up as well.  

[GV4444]

Your analysis is a bit 20/20 hindsight, more so with Missouri.  I would have gone with Williams, but Voinovich could have worked.  I think there was more in play with that decision than using the guy most likely to get in.  Not only that, if Williams went 0-2 at B1Gs, he would have been 7-9 and likely not getting in anyway.

 

[Tyler Perry]

Travis should’ve got in. Only losses to top 10 guys, super close to beating Larkin. Should’ve started Mendoza, high AA threat 

[happyvalet]

10 hours ago, maligned said:

With at-large bids out now, lineup decisions at Iowa and Mizzou officially ended in disaster.

Voinovich at Iowa gets subbed in for Williams, who, if he'd been allowed to simply finish the season, would have had enough matches, enough ranking, and enough of a resume, that he would have been a shoo-in for an at-large bid to nationals even if he'd gone 0-2 at Big 10s. Instead, the low-match-number guy doesn't come through at Big 10s and doesn't have the resume to get himself a bid.

Similarly at Mizzou, Teague Travis gets put in at 157 for #15-ish 2025 national qualifier J Conway, who's looking at least like a Top 16 or blood rounder early in the year. Travis has a low match number, lays an egg at Big 12s, and doesn't have the resume to get an at-large. Like Williams, Conways's resume was such that even a ho-hum last few weeks and an 0-2 at Big 12s would still have earned an at-large.

In a double-whammy of sorts, Conway wrestles the latter part of the season at 165, is ranked mid-20s, and gets subbed last-minute for Maxx Mayfield because of his upset win over Euston during his "test run" and the assumption that he's headed back to previous form. Mayfield also bombs out at Big 12s, has no resume, and gets no at-large. 

Any lessons here? It definitely seems like it's worth leaving your more-matches/more-resume guy in late in the year if there's any proximity at all in the two candidates' wrestling ability. Seems crazy in hindsight to have Williams or Conway missing from these weights for Iowa and Missouri at nationals.

To say Teague Travis laid an egg at conferences is frankly dumb. He wrestled well, won 3 matches but had the misfortune facing #4 and #9 in the country, and came up one spot short. 

[MidwestMan]

3 hours ago, Tyler Perry said:

Travis should’ve got in. Only losses to top 10 guys, super close to beating Larkin. Should’ve started Mendoza, high AA threat 

Travis obviously didn't wrestle up to his ability at Big 12's.  Tigers needed the Travis that beat Mauller at the Okie State vs Mu dual in COMO a couple of years ago, when he was a Cowboy.  I left that dual pretty disgusted.

So, Mauller flamed out his Sr year at MU. Travis transfers home to CoMo and does the same.  

Will Conway be back next year, or more "musical chairs?"  As a MU wrestling fan, I've been leaning into "next year" a little too often these days.

 

[juniorvarsity]

Another L for Iowa with their decision at 157. Add it to the list. Ys hate to see it. It's slightly depressing seeing Iowa rack up all the times they shoot themselves in the foot. College wrestling is more fun when they're doing better. And I'm a Buckeye fan and low key Iowa hater. 

[maligned]

16 hours ago, GV4444 said:

Your analysis is a bit 20/20 hindsight, more so with Missouri.  I would have gone with Williams, but Voinovich could have worked.  I think there was more in play with that decision than using the guy most likely to get in.  Not only that, if Williams went 0-2 at B1Gs, he would have been 7-9 and likely not getting in anyway.

 

My point with Williams is that, if they'd left him in late-season, he'd have beaten Buell in the Purdue dual. Then assuming very, very conservatively that he goes 0-2 like Voinovich (but wins 9th place like Voinovich) at Big 10s, he's 10-9 with two wins against the field during the season and a low-20s ranking, at worst. He would have gotten in with that resume. But Voinovich didn't have the matches to build a resume. 

I obviously don't know what was happening in the room or what things Williams was saying or doing; but if Brands was making decisions on perception rather than results, I'm not sure it worked out.

Edited March 11 by maligned

[Winners Circle]

11 hours ago, Tyler Perry said:

Travis should’ve got in. Only losses to top 10 guys, super close to beating Larkin. Should’ve started Mendoza, high AA threat 

What did Mendoza do this season to indicate to you that he's a "high AA threat" at 157? His best results were at 149 (wins over Frost, Jamison, and Willochell. And only one of those guys is an AA, Frost who was 7th at 141). At 157 he had losses to Webster, Millard, and Jordan Williams. And his only notable win was over Catrabone, who is good but not a "high AA threat". Based on his season, I don't see how you could predict him to beat: Duke, Taylor, Larkin, Robideau, Zerban, Shapiro, Webster, Cannon, or Watters. Could he knock off one or two of those guys and sneak onto the podium? Certainly. But that doesn't make him a "high AA threat". 

[MizzouFan01]

11 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

What did Mendoza do this season to indicate to you that he's a "high AA threat" at 157? His best results were at 149 (wins over Frost, Jamison, and Willochell. And only one of those guys is an AA, Frost who was 7th at 141). At 157 he had losses to Webster, Millard, and Jordan Williams. And his only notable win was over Catrabone, who is good but not a "high AA threat". Based on his season, I don't see how you could predict him to beat: Duke, Taylor, Larkin, Robideau, Zerban, Shapiro, Webster, Cannon, or Watters. Could he knock off one or two of those guys and sneak onto the podium? Certainly. But that doesn't make him a "high AA threat". 

149 this year was Mendoza’s best weight. The matches at 157 were to cover down when injuries happened or just to get mat time. Idk if I’m speaking for all Mizzou fans, but most on here will most likely agree with me. We’ve seen Edmond for 4-5 years already. We know/knew how it plays out. Keep it close if he can and try to win in OT verse better competition. He refused to try and ride, and just let folks go. It burned him many times, but never change his style. Seth would’ve been a breath of fresh air, constantly attacking and trying to ride. You may not be calling them top tier wins, but I would argue that Seth’s wins this year at both weights are probably better than anyone Josh beat in the last couple years. Minimum Mendoza allocates and qualifies at 149 this year. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I don't think it was the sub that backfired at Iowa; it was the 2025-2026 NIL transfer with a history of arrests and second chances that backfired.

[Winners Circle]

37 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

149 this year was Mendoza’s best weight. The matches at 157 were to cover down when injuries happened or just to get mat time. Idk if I’m speaking for all Mizzou fans, but most on here will most likely agree with me. We’ve seen Edmond for 4-5 years already. We know/knew how it plays out. Keep it close if he can and try to win in OT verse better competition. He refused to try and ride, and just let folks go. It burned him many times, but never change his style. Seth would’ve been a breath of fresh air, constantly attacking and trying to ride. You may not be calling them top tier wins, but I would argue that Seth’s wins this year at both weights are probably better than anyone Josh beat in the last couple years. Minimum Mendoza allocates and qualifies at 149 this year. 

I agree with everything you said here. I may have misunderstood, but I thought @Tyler Perry was saying Mendoza should have started at 157 over Travis, which is where the basis of my rebuttal was. If he was saying Mendoza should have started at 149 over Edmond, then I 100% agree with that. 

[CoachDoss11]

57 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

149 this year was Mendoza’s best weight. The matches at 157 were to cover down when injuries happened or just to get mat time. Idk if I’m speaking for all Mizzou fans, but most on here will most likely agree with me. We’ve seen Edmond for 4-5 years already. We know/knew how it plays out. Keep it close if he can and try to win in OT verse better competition. He refused to try and ride, and just let folks go. It burned him many times, but never change his style. Seth would’ve been a breath of fresh air, constantly attacking and trying to ride. You may not be calling them top tier wins, but I would argue that Seth’s wins this year at both weights are probably better than anyone Josh beat in the last couple years. Minimum Mendoza allocates and qualifies at 149 this year. 

I'd 100% agree with you!  Edmond can kick rocks and I'm glad he didn't get in....no one wants to watch that crap and you shouldn't want to wrestle or win like that.  It is what it is!

[Tyler Perry]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

What did Mendoza do this season to indicate to you that he's a "high AA threat" at 157? His best results were at 149 (wins over Frost, Jamison, and Willochell. And only one of those guys is an AA, Frost who was 7th at 141). At 157 he had losses to Webster, Millard, and Jordan Williams. And his only notable win was over Catrabone, who is good but not a "high AA threat". Based on his season, I don't see how you could predict him to beat: Duke, Taylor, Larkin, Robideau, Zerban, Shapiro, Webster, Cannon, or Watters. Could he knock off one or two of those guys and sneak onto the podium? Certainly. But that doesn't make him a "high AA threat". 

49 not 57 lol. He majored Jacob frost 

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Perry said:

49 not 57 lol. He majored Jacob frost 

Apologies. I misunderstood your original statement. 

[Spladle]

3 hours ago, Tyler Perry said:

49 not 57 lol. He majored Jacob frost 

Didn’t major him but point still stands. Frost hasn’t looked great for awhile. 

[kschlosser]

15 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

And I'm a Buckeye fan and low key Iowa hater. 

So what are your thoughts on Gallagher-Birden and Geog-Shumate?

[RawDog]

18 hours ago, maligned said:

My point with Williams is that, if they'd left him in late-season, he'd have beaten Buell in the Purdue dual. Then assuming very, very conservatively that he goes 0-2 like Voinovich (but wins 9th place like Voinovich) at Big 10s, he's 10-9 with two wins against the field during the season and a low-20s ranking, at worst. He would have gotten in with that resume. But Voinovich didn't have the matches to build a resume. 

I obviously don't know what was happening in the room or what things Williams was saying or doing; but if Brands was making decisions on perception rather than results, I'm not sure it worked out.

 

17 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't think it was the sub that backfired at Iowa; it was the 2025-2026 NIL transfer with a history of arrests and second chances that backfired.

Williams is without a doubt a better wrestler than VV.  The decision to start VV seems extremely stupid to me.  If Brands decided to start VV over williams due to some off the mat issues then Brands needs to make some kind of comment on that.  Otherwise I think Brands should be fired.  And I say that as a long time fan of Brands.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, RawDog said:

 

Williams is without a doubt a better wrestler than VV.  The decision to start VV seems extremely stupid to me.  If Brands decided to start VV over williams due to some off the mat issues then Brands needs to make some kind of comment on that.  Otherwise I think Brands should be fired.  And I say that as a long time fan of Brands.

Fired because it is possible that he didn't start someone because of off the mat issues, and he owes one "RawDog" an explanation?

[juniorvarsity]

10 hours ago, kschlosser said:

So what are your thoughts on Gallagher-Birden and Geog-Shumate?

I think Geog was the right guy. I think 165 was close. Hard for me to say. Gallagher looked really good at the beginning of the season. He was losing close to good opponents, he seemed like he was right there. Birden has good defense when guys are on his legs. Gallagher has good hand fight to keep guys off his legs. Neither have solid offense. 

[kschlosser]

2 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

I think Geog was the right guy. I think 165 was close. Hard for me to say. Gallagher looked really good at the beginning of the season. He was losing close to good opponents, he seemed like he was right there. Birden has good defense when guys are on his legs. Gallagher has good hand fight to keep guys off his legs. Neither have solid offense. 

Not disagreeing and I'm not in the room.

From the outside looking in PG may have a better floor, EB may have a higher ceiling and SS may have the floor and LG has the ceiling 

Kinda sucks cause all are on the clock regardless of how they have developed this year and through their careers.

Will not be this year, but I think Birden can All American with a healthy and complete year in the lineup. 

[Show_Me]

On 3/10/2026 at 5:29 PM, Wrestej said:

Teague Travis is and was definitely the better option than Conway for Mizzou.  You don’t have to look to hard to find on these forums that majority of Mizzou fans thought there be other moves made to the line-up as well.  

This is debatable.  

Me and my wrestling friends never viewed the move @ 157 as a significant upgrade.  Always viewed both wrestlers ceiling as R16.  Travis went into B12 with a limited resume and did nothing to improve it.  Close losses don’t count on the At-Large criteria.

What isn’t debatable is that Mendoza should have been allowed to be our 149.  It was obvious after the paycom duals & Soldier Salute.

[Wrestej]

31 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

This is debatable.  

Me and my wrestling friends never viewed the move @ 157 as a significant upgrade.  Always viewed both wrestlers ceiling as R16.  Travis went into B12 with a limited resume and did nothing to improve it.  Close losses don’t count on the At-Large criteria.

What isn’t debatable is that Mendoza should have been allowed to be our 149.  It was obvious after the paycom duals & Soldier Salute.

Yes it is my opinion that Travis is the better wrestler.  My feeling is Conway more than likely would go 1-2 or 2 and done at ncaa.  Travis 2-2.  I would have also liked to see Mendoza get the call but that didn’t happen so I might as well get over it.  I don’t think it will hurt Mendoza’s career and if anything help make him better.  Even guys like Ben Askren and Cale Sanderson redshirted and they had pretty good careers.  I think Mendoza has a ton of talent and will also have much success.  I think he is the last guy to defeat Vega and when I watched that match Mendoza controlled everything that happened.  I’m definitely looking forward to watching him next year.