Interesting Data Point learned from NYC results

[Viratas]

For years, we’ve been told that the wealthy control everything, that they’re the reason the poor suffer and why candidates like Mandami can never win. That has been the argument from the left, even though much of their funding comes from those same elites.

But Mandami did win in New York City, which means one of two things must be true: either the wealthy allowed it, meaning they actually support socialism, or the wealthy don’t have the power we’ve been told they do. Either way, it completely contradicts the narrative we’ve heard for years.

This is going to get very interesting.

[Scouts Honor]

true true

[TylerDurden]

5 hours ago, Viratas said:

For years, we’ve been told that the wealthy control everything, that they’re the reason the poor suffer and why candidates like Mandami can never win. That has been the argument from the left, even though much of their funding comes from those same elites.

But Mandami did win in New York City, which means one of two things must be true: either the wealthy allowed it, meaning they actually support socialism, or the wealthy don’t have the power we’ve been told they do. Either way, it completely contradicts the narrative we’ve heard for years.

This is going to get very interesting.

I don't know why we've devolved into this false choice fallacy practice in public discourse. Multiple things can be true at the same time, but we're too busy demonizing the "other side" to admit that there's some amount of truth to things the "other side" says. 

For instance, capitalism has generally been a good system in this country, but it's also the reason why housing prices are high in many areas. That's not a controversial statement, but people will argue about it until they're blue in the face. 

 

 

[mspart]

2 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

For instance, capitalism has generally been a good system in this country, but it's also the reason why housing prices are high in many areas. That's not a controversial statement, but people will argue about it until they're blue in the face. 

 

 

Maybe capitalism is why housing prices are so high.   But regulations, permitting, taxes, and delays that result from all of these are all on the government and that increases costs as well.   All of which are necessary, but there is a difference between what is necessary and what is overly excessive.  

mspart

[Viratas]

5 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

I don't know why we've devolved into this false choice fallacy practice in public discourse. Multiple things can be true at the same time, but we're too busy demonizing the "other side" to admit that there's some amount of truth to things the "other side" says. 

For instance, capitalism has generally been a good system in this country, but it's also the reason why housing prices are high in many areas. That's not a controversial statement, but people will argue about it until they're blue in the face. 

 

 

I agree overall with what you are saying 100%. The bigger issue in the US is that we only think in terms of political identity, not our brains. We rarely, if ever, address the actual cause of problems. Why, because our "side" tells us what the cause is. A bigger debate to point on capitalism is that we are not actually letting it do its thing, regulations (Govt. involvement) impacts capitalism and its effectivness, again that is not a new thought, the issue is can capitalism truly work with regulation or not, if not, we need a better system. 

[TylerDurden]

40 minutes ago, Viratas said:

I agree overall with what you are saying 100%. The bigger issue in the US is that we only think in terms of political identity, not our brains. We rarely, if ever, address the actual cause of problems. Why, because our "side" tells us what the cause is. A bigger debate to point on capitalism is that we are not actually letting it do its thing, regulations (Govt. involvement) impacts capitalism and its effectivness, again that is not a new thought, the issue is can capitalism truly work with regulation or not, if not, we need a better system. 

I agree with the underlined bit.

We no long address issues in term of solutions, but political point-scoring. No one is willing to let anyone else "win" and take credit for a good idea. Hell, we see it often with infrastructure bills where people vote against them, then are happy to stand in front of the camera to celebrate them. It happens on various issues. 

History has shown us that unfettered capitalism isn't a sustainable model. To me, the type and volume of regulation in a capitalist society is the true debate - and even that isn't a rational discussion any more. We don't live in an all-or-nothing world. 

[TylerDurden]

45 minutes ago, mspart said:

Maybe capitalism is why housing prices are so high.   But regulations, permitting, taxes, and delays that result from all of these are all on the government and that increases costs as well.   All of which are necessary, but there is a difference between what is necessary and what is overly excessive.  

mspart

Agree with the highlighted part. 

Now come up with a way to get people to agree on what is necessary versus excessive in this day and age. 

[Bigbrog]

7 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

I agree with the underlined bit.

We no long address issues in term of solutions, but political point-scoring. No one is willing to let anyone else "win" and take credit for a good idea. Hell, we see it often with infrastructure bills where people vote against them, then are happy to stand in front of the camera to celebrate them. It happens on various issues. 

History has shown us that unfettered capitalism isn't a sustainable model. To me, the type and volume of regulation in a capitalist society is the true debate - and even that isn't a rational discussion any more. We don't live in an all-or-nothing world. 

Agree with what you and @Viratas have said.

[Scouts Honor]

i have a solution

anything the govt touches gets more expensive.

someone listed all the fees/regs etc

rent freezes

education

 

go back to capitalism.

i know you dont want to hear that. 

but it is a solution

[uncle bernard]

9 hours ago, Viratas said:

For years, we’ve been told that the wealthy control everything, that they’re the reason the poor suffer and why candidates like Mandami can never win. That has been the argument from the left, even though much of their funding comes from those same elites.

But Mandami did win in New York City, which means one of two things must be true: either the wealthy allowed it, meaning they actually support socialism, or the wealthy don’t have the power we’ve been told they do. Either way, it completely contradicts the narrative we’ve heard for years.

This is going to get very interesting.

It's certainly harder for candidates to win. It takes a special candidate to do that, and regardless of what you think of Mamdani, he's very clearly a real political talent.

You've described the case in an overly simple way. The rich don't control things in the sense that they have their hands on a button. They control it because they have the resources to influence the way people think via ads and campaign infrastructure. 

The billions of dollars they threw at Cuomo didn't work this time for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to:

Mamdani ran an amazing campaign

Mamdani is incredibly charismatic and likeable

NYC is expensive - Mamdani focused his entire campaign on affordability, an issue that affects almost every voter.

Cuomo/establishment tried to make this entire campaign about Israel - this issue both affects very few NYC voters directly and Mamdani's position on Israel is the more popular position. Voters see right through that.

Cuomo is a disgraced sex pest who killed half the city's grandparents during Covid. The sitting mayor is under indictment for looney tunes-esque corruption. You can't overstate how weak the field was.

[jross]

31 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Mamdani is incredibly charismatic and likeable

Exactly like pepsi, the sip tastes great and leaves you with a cheap, shitty aftertaste that lingers.

[mspart]

Oh man, pepsi hater.   I seen this thread going in a new directions!!!

Mamdami drinks girly fresca.  

mspart

Edited November 6, 2025 by mspart