Indigenous People’s Day in honor of…

[headshuck]

Elizabeth Warren. All 1/1,024

 

[Offthemat]

Today is Columbus Day..

[WrestlingRasta]

Both Columbus Day and Indigenous Peoples.  Day is observed and recognized all across the US, each getting their coin as a holiday in the latter part of the 20th century.  
 

Columbus, for the man who set out for Asia but missed and landed in the Carribean.  While he never made it to North America, the door was opened from there. 
 

Indigenous Day, for the people who became enslaved and started losing their land once he did disembark on this region of the world. 

[Offthemat]

What about the people who had their land and liberty taken by these  ‘indigenous’ guys?  Columbus accomplished quite a feat, crossing the Atlantic Ocean like he did.  Those indigenous were mostly just born here.  Do we need to celebrate that - well, Happy Birthday.  

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

What about the people who had their land and liberty taken by these  ‘indigenous’ guys?  Columbus accomplished quite a feat, crossing the Atlantic Ocean like he did.  Those indigenous were mostly just born here.  Do we need to celebrate that - well, Happy Birthday.  

Name any land that once wasn’t stolen from someone else.   It’s like they forget how the world worked for thousands and thousands of years 

[WrestlingRasta]

I don’t see in here anyone saying YOU need to celebrate one or the other.  Likewise, I don’t see anyone saying YOU cannot celebrate one or the other.  No need to get so defensive about accurate information.  You’ll be okay.  
 

I do find interesting, however, the stance on just happen to ‘be born here’, and the celebration of foreigners making the trek to a different land.   Veeerrrry interesting. 

[ionel]

13 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I don’t see in here anyone saying YOU need to celebrate one or the other.  Likewise, I don’t see anyone saying YOU cannot celebrate one or the other.  No need to get so defensive about accurate information.  You’ll be okay.  
 

Columbus discovered the Bahamas.  Why don't the native Bahamian people celebrate Columbus Day?

Maybe we should celebrate Juan Ponce Day?  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

There would be no Rastafarianism without Columbus

[Gene Mills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

There would be no Rastafarianism without Columbus

Colombus was trying to get spices from the far east;  but then India brought the 'spice' to Jamaica

[WrestlingRasta]

39 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

There would be no Rastafarianism without Columbus

Given that Rastafar I was born out of extreme slavery and oppression…you could certainly make that argument. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Given that Rastafar I was born out of extreme slavery and oppression…you could certainly make that argument. 

That is my point. After the Arawaks and others died out, the African slaves were brought over to do labor.  Hundreds of years later, there is a religion based on the divinity of Haile Selassie and a key component is repatriation to Africa.  So, prob no Rasta without Columbus.

[WrestlingRasta]

4 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That is my point. After the Arawaks and others died out, the African slaves were brought over to do labor.  Hundreds of years later, there is a religion based on the divinity of Haile Selassie and a key component is repatriation to Africa.  So, prob no Rasta without Columbus.

I understand your point 

[reversaloffortune]

Only racists recognize it as columbus day.

[mspart]

4 minutes ago, reversaloffortune said:

Only racists recognize it as columbus day.

That word has been bandied about until it no longer means anything.  This is an old trope and just doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.    Historians recognize that Columbus "found" the western world.   That is what is celebrated.   It seems evident that someone else would have opened the western world to the rest of the world eventually.   But it was Columbus that did it first.  

Who gets credit for calculus?   Newton, but Leibniz figured it out at near the same time.   Newton got the nod.   Nobody celebrates all the others int he world that didn't discover it.   Who discovered relativity?  If Einstein didn't do it, someone would have.   But Einstein did it and he gets the nod.  Alexander Graham Bell and Elisha Gray famously filed patent documents on the same day in 1876.  But Bell was first so he gets the nod.   It's what happens in history.   

mspart

[reversaloffortune]

He gets credit for nothing.  He got lost and crashed into the Caribbean for goodness sakes.  

[mspart]

He gets credit for finding the west for goodness sakes and the migration began immediately thereafter.   Someone would have done it but it was Columbus that did it.  That is not in dispute.  

mspart   

[reversaloffortune]

He was many things and few of them were good.  An enslaver, a tyrant, a colonizer, and a responsible for the death of the indigenous peoples. Not worth celebrating, and those that do are bigots.

[Offthemat]

11 minutes ago, reversaloffortune said:

He was many things and few of them were good.  An enslaver, a tyrant, a colonizer, and a responsible for the death of the indigenous peoples. Not worth celebrating, and those that do are bigots.

Do you know how to sail?

[reversaloffortune]

So you celebrate a sailor that got his arse lost and then killed and enslaved the inhabitants.  Yeah, no.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, reversaloffortune said:

So you celebrate a sailor that got his arse lost and then killed and enslaved the inhabitants.  Yeah, no.

A lot of discoveries were made by accident.  Should we celebrate them?  idk 

[WrestlingRasta]

56 minutes ago, mspart said:

That word has been bandied about until it no longer means anything.  This is an old trope and just doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.    Historians recognize that Columbus "found" the western world.   That is what is celebrated.   It seems evident that someone else would have opened the western world to the rest of the world eventually.   But it was Columbus that did it first.    

mspart

To be fair, he didn’t discover it.  There were already people there, for a loooooooong time.  He was the first European to land there. And the facts are he did so thinking he was in Asia. 
 

Personally don’t have any issue with people celebrating his voyage (although the things reversal says about him are in fact true), much like I don’t understand people having a problem those who are celebrating it as Indigenous Day. For me….its a day off work, nothing more, nothing less.  Yay.

However, unfortunately, the story we were told about Columbus and his voyage as we were growing up was not exactly the accurate picture. And if we are going to memorialize these things, there’s nothing wrong with remembering the accurate picture. 

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

However, unfortunately, the story we were told about Columbus and his voyage as we were growing up was not exactly the accurate picture. And if we are going to memorialize these things, there’s nothing wrong with remembering the accurate picture. 

I have a problem with not being taught history correctly.  

[WrestlingRasta]

26 minutes ago, ionel said:

I have a problem with not being taught history correctly.  

Same.  But unfortunately it’s pretty common. History is told by the ‘winners’.  But we often find more truths. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 hours ago, reversaloffortune said:

So you celebrate a sailor that got his arse lost and then killed and enslaved the inhabitants.  Yeah, no.

Did he get lost, or did he bump into something that no one in Europe knew existed?  Seems to me that he was headed in the right direction.  He had many negative character traits by today's standards, but almost no one from 50 years ago would hold up to today's standards for ideal behaviors... now try 500 years ago.  One thing I know, was that he was brave and his voyage changed the world.  Also, quite a few great inventions happened by accident.

BTW a lot of the inhabitants were also pretty good at killing and enslaving before Europe arrived.

[uncle bernard]

I thought you guys hated immigrants that commit crimes?