Important PSA

[bnwtwg]

 

[bnwtwg]

I have no choice but to also concur with Mr. Blaze.

[Ragu]

Real fans of the sport agree  

[CHROMEBIRD]

Interesting way off capping your NIL potential

[Ohio Elite]

Folkstyle for me...

[bnwtwg]

36 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

Folkstyle for me...

May want to rethink your name because Blaze is as elite as it gets for the great state of Ohio

[ScottishSteel]

17 hours ago, Ohio Elite said:

Folkstyle for me...

I'm with you there - but admittedly I'm biased as a former wrestler who's best skill by far was Leg riding on top and rolling around; terrible translation to Freestyle

[WhiteCloud]

As a spectator it's hard to agree with him. 

Rules:

Folkstyle makes sense to people who like fighting.  Wrestling definitely is a combat sport.  Folkstyle wrestlers transfer to MMA and submission grappling more successfully.  Folkstyle rules are less reliant on the officials' judgement.  Not having to release a hold before getting more back points is something Freestyle could learn from.  Can we limit subsequent rolls to only 1 point each?  People fly around the world starving to make weight just to have a 90 second match that could have been competitive.

League:

The Olympics had 6 weights with 16 wrestlers in each and a repechage which isn't as many matches as consolation bracket.  NCAA championships has 33 in 10 weights.  A consolation bracket.  7 minute matches.  Less passivity/stalling points.  Less referee stoppages.  More accurate calls about who is doing the stalling/passivity.  No grounded out of bounds stoppages.

We want more wrestling.  Freestyle matches have shorter time limits.  They more frequently end before the time limit.  There are many times fewer events to watch.  It's hard to even find results of national championships held in the major countries like Japan, India, Iran, let alone the minor ones.  Google and AI engines can't find them even in those languages. Way easier to find NCAA division 2, 3, and high school.  

With so little wrestling going on, the freestyle seeds are always way off.  They only seed the top 8 which doesn't make sense in a 32 person world championship tournament where unseeded people regularly win.  

Difficulty:

Being a folkstyle wrestler is excruciating - more conditioning, more weigh ins.  More rematches mean you both have to adjust.  Plus with the skills to be an a NCAA champion, you usually make team USA as long as there isn't another NCAA champ knocking you out.  You can wrestle freestyle against similar talent in Japan or the Caucasus region get world level accolades.  Or just the Americas and Europe -- You dominate really poor programs and get world level accolades.  You don't have to wrestle 25 matches in 4 months.  You make weight 3 times in a year on average. Then knock off these guys who are "champions of entire continents".  Africa doesn't have any countries trying.  The truth is there are hardly any countries developing wrestlers at all let alone talent that wouldn't get teched by the top 5 countries. 

So that's why wrestlers like freestyle but fans like folkstyle.  Some fans get hooked in by the glamour of the Olympics and the mystique of the best foreign wrestlers.  With the USA training Freestyle more than in the past, much of that mystique is going away.

• The competition level is actually lower internationally than in the US in college
  • Jore Volk won u20 gold.  He is 51-17 so far in college (2 years). 7th in ncaas.
  • Bennett Berge got u20 silver and u20 bronze.  He is 63-19 so far in college (2 years). 4th in ncaas.
  • Ben Keuter got u20 gold and u20 silver.  He is 24-10 so far in college (2 years). 8th in ncaas.
  • Nick Bouzakis got u20 silver.  Ranked 7th, never past round of 12.
  • Meyer Shapiro got u20 gold. Reached 3rd place.
  • Camden McDaniel got u20 bronze.  20th seed, got 8th.
  • Matt Singleton got u20 bronze. Got 7th
  • Zack Ryder got u20 silver.  Redshirted his only year so far
  • Justin Rademacher got u20 bronze.  Only been a true freshman.  Did not qualify.
  • Jacob Cardenas got u23 Silver three times.  In NCAA got 4th twice.
  • Isaac Trumble got u23 gold.  In NCAA got 4th.
  • Tanner Sloan got u23 silver. In NCAA got 2nd.
  • Anthony Cassiopi got u23 gold and bronze.  In NCAA got 3rd.
  • Jay Aiello got u23 bronze.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Sean Fausz got u23 silver.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Richie Lews got U23 Gold without any international experience.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Ty Walz got U23 bronze.  In NCAA reached 4th.
  • Youseff Hemida got U23 silver.  In NCAA reached 6th.
  • Braxton Amos got u20 gold.  Qualified but did not reach round of 12.  7th at big tens.
  • Stevan won seniors a few years after college.  Reached 3rd in NCAAs.
  • Sebastian Rivera won the Olympics and got 2nd at the senior world championships.  In NCAA Reached 3rd twice.
  • Myles Amine got 3rd in senior world's.  Got 1st-3rd four times in the european championships.  Bronze in the Olympics while still in college.  In NCCAs got 2-4th all five years. 
  • Thomas Gilman got gold, silver, silver, bronze in sr world championships and olympics.  Got 2nd-4th in NCAAs.
  • Bekzod Abdurakhmonov went to college in the US.  In community college had 84-8 record.  In NCAA had 74-17 record.  Was 3x bronze medalist in world seniors and olympics.
  • Our best:  John Smith and Jordan Burroughs had more success internationally than in college. 
• OK state just wrestled China in freestyle and won by a large margin
  • Two-time NCAA qualifier Konner Doucet bested Habila Awusayiman 3-0. Awusayiman represented China at the 2024 Olympics in Paris at 97 kg. 
  • Incoming freshman Ronnie Ramirez also grappled with a 2024 Olympian in Zou Wanhao at 61 kg, with Ramirez capturing a 4-3 win.
  • Iowa State transfer Casey Swiderski wrestled Shen Tao at 74 kg — about 163 pounds — with Swiderski winning via a 12-1 tech.
  • Cody Merrill took on U23 Asian Championship bronze medalist Narenmanduhal at 92 kg, with Merrill cruising to an 11-0 tech.
  • Alex Facundo wrestled U23 Asian Championship gold medalist Cao Nan at 86 kg and Facundo beat Nan 4-1.
  • Dee Lockett dropped his bout to Lu Feng. Lockett is a U17 world champ and a U20 silver medalist. He picked up a senior gold medal at the most recent Pan American Championships. Feng is a U23 Asian Championship gold medalist and represented China at 74 kg at the 2024 Olympics.

Joey's not really laying out pros and cons.  He has an opinion.  

[Jason Bryant]

Fanbase doesn’t prefer a style as much as they prefer the college team-based system. You could change the style from folkstyle to amish rakefighting and there’s still a built in team component and tribalistic following that appeals to more people. Olympic sports don’t draw as well as professional sports - not because of their rule sets - but more people are going to dial in to watch North Carolina or Texas anything over Team USA.

There’s varied rule sets internationally in a lot of different sports vs. a U.S. domestic version. The U.S. pro sport (save soccer) will almost always outdraw an Olympic-type of comparative event.

[BruceyB]

As an athlete, of course freestyle is a lot more fun than folkstyle.. it's a lot easier physically. But as a spectator, I appreciate the grind, conditioning, toughness and various techniques required to succeed in folkstyle (getting out from bottom, tough rides on top, finishing cleanly, etc.) 

Folkstyle is just a much more complex version of wrestling than freestyle, and for that reason, it is my preferred style to watch.

[alex1fly]

16 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

Fanbase doesn’t prefer a style as much as they prefer the college team-based system. You could change the style from folkstyle to amish rakefighting and there’s still a built in team component and tribalistic following that appeals to more people. Olympic sports don’t draw as well as professional sports - not because of their rule sets - but more people are going to dial in to watch North Carolina or Texas anything over Team USA.

There’s varied rule sets internationally in a lot of different sports vs. a U.S. domestic version. The U.S. pro sport (save soccer) will almost always outdraw an Olympic-type of comparative event.

Rake fighting? Count me in!

Great point actually. A big part of the fun is tuning in to my team wrestling a collegiate season. Freestyle is cool but way less organized and less accessible. 

19 hours ago, WhiteCloud said:

As a spectator it's hard to agree with him. 

Rules:

Folkstyle makes sense to people who like fighting.  Wrestling definitely is a combat sport.  Folkstyle wrestlers transfer to MMA and submission grappling more successfully.  Folkstyle rules are less reliant on the officials' judgement.  Not having to release a hold before getting more back points is something Freestyle could learn from.  Can we limit subsequent rolls to only 1 point each?  People fly around the world starving to make weight just to have a 90 second match that could have been competitive.

League:

The Olympics had 6 weights with 16 wrestlers in each and a repechage which isn't as many matches as consolation bracket.  NCAA championships has 33 in 10 weights.  A consolation bracket.  7 minute matches.  Less passivity/stalling points.  Less referee stoppages.  More accurate calls about who is doing the stalling/passivity.  No grounded out of bounds stoppages.

We want more wrestling.  Freestyle matches have shorter time limits.  They more frequently end before the time limit.  There are many times fewer events to watch.  It's hard to even find results of national championships held in the major countries like Japan, India, Iran, let alone the minor ones.  Google and AI engines can't find them even in those languages. Way easier to find NCAA division 2, 3, and high school.  

With so little wrestling going on, the freestyle seeds are always way off.  They only seed the top 8 which doesn't make sense in a 32 person world championship tournament where unseeded people regularly win.  

Difficulty:

Being a folkstyle wrestler is excruciating - more conditioning, more weigh ins.  More rematches mean you both have to adjust.  Plus with the skills to be an a NCAA champion, you usually make team USA as long as there isn't another NCAA champ knocking you out.  You can wrestle freestyle against similar talent in Japan or the Caucasus region get world level accolades.  Or just the Americas and Europe -- You dominate really poor programs and get world level accolades.  You don't have to wrestle 25 matches in 4 months.  You make weight 3 times in a year on average. Then knock off these guys who are "champions of entire continents".  Africa doesn't have any countries trying.  The truth is there are hardly any countries developing wrestlers at all let alone talent that wouldn't get teched by the top 5 countries. 

So that's why wrestlers like freestyle but fans like folkstyle.  Some fans get hooked in by the glamour of the Olympics and the mystique of the best foreign wrestlers.  With the USA training Freestyle more than in the past, much of that mystique is going away.

• The competition level is actually lower internationally than in the US in college
  • Jore Volk won u20 gold.  He is 51-17 so far in college (2 years). 7th in ncaas.
  • Bennett Berge got u20 silver and u20 bronze.  He is 63-19 so far in college (2 years). 4th in ncaas.
  • Ben Keuter got u20 gold and u20 silver.  He is 24-10 so far in college (2 years). 8th in ncaas.
  • Nick Bouzakis got u20 silver.  Ranked 7th, never past round of 12.
  • Meyer Shapiro got u20 gold. Reached 3rd place.
  • Camden McDaniel got u20 bronze.  20th seed, got 8th.
  • Matt Singleton got u20 bronze. Got 7th
  • Zack Ryder got u20 silver.  Redshirted his only year so far
  • Justin Rademacher got u20 bronze.  Only been a true freshman.  Did not qualify.
  • Jacob Cardenas got u23 Silver three times.  In NCAA got 4th twice.
  • Isaac Trumble got u23 gold.  In NCAA got 4th.
  • Tanner Sloan got u23 silver. In NCAA got 2nd.
  • Anthony Cassiopi got u23 gold and bronze.  In NCAA got 3rd.
  • Jay Aiello got u23 bronze.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Sean Fausz got u23 silver.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Richie Lews got U23 Gold without any international experience.  In NCAA reached round of 12.
  • Ty Walz got U23 bronze.  In NCAA reached 4th.
  • Youseff Hemida got U23 silver.  In NCAA reached 6th.
  • Braxton Amos got u20 gold.  Qualified but did not reach round of 12.  7th at big tens.
  • Stevan won seniors a few years after college.  Reached 3rd in NCAAs.
  • Sebastian Rivera won the Olympics and got 2nd at the senior world championships.  In NCAA Reached 3rd twice.
  • Myles Amine got 3rd in senior world's.  Got 1st-3rd four times in the european championships.  Bronze in the Olympics while still in college.  In NCCAs got 2-4th all five years. 
  • Thomas Gilman got gold, silver, silver, bronze in sr world championships and olympics.  Got 2nd-4th in NCAAs.
  • Bekzod Abdurakhmonov went to college in the US.  In community college had 84-8 record.  In NCAA had 74-17 record.  Was 3x bronze medalist in world seniors and olympics.
  • Our best:  John Smith and Jordan Burroughs had more success internationally than in college. 
• OK state just wrestled China in freestyle and won by a large margin
  • Two-time NCAA qualifier Konner Doucet bested Habila Awusayiman 3-0. Awusayiman represented China at the 2024 Olympics in Paris at 97 kg. 
  • Incoming freshman Ronnie Ramirez also grappled with a 2024 Olympian in Zou Wanhao at 61 kg, with Ramirez capturing a 4-3 win.
  • Iowa State transfer Casey Swiderski wrestled Shen Tao at 74 kg — about 163 pounds — with Swiderski winning via a 12-1 tech.
  • Cody Merrill took on U23 Asian Championship bronze medalist Narenmanduhal at 92 kg, with Merrill cruising to an 11-0 tech.
  • Alex Facundo wrestled U23 Asian Championship gold medalist Cao Nan at 86 kg and Facundo beat Nan 4-1.
  • Dee Lockett dropped his bout to Lu Feng. Lockett is a U17 world champ and a U20 silver medalist. He picked up a senior gold medal at the most recent Pan American Championships. Feng is a U23 Asian Championship gold medalist and represented China at 74 kg at the 2024 Olympics.

Joey's not really laying out pros and cons.  He has an opinion.  

Is this an AI post or did you actually look all that stuff up? Tons of great comparison info here. And agreed, it’s an opinion, I’ve long said it would be interesting to hear from D1 wrestlers across the board what they prefer rather than having a tweet here and there kick off debates. 

[boconnell]

18 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

Fanbase doesn’t prefer a style as much as they prefer the college team-based system. You could change the style from folkstyle to amish rakefighting and there’s still a built in team component and tribalistic following that appeals to more people. Olympic sports don’t draw as well as professional sports - not because of their rule sets - but more people are going to dial in to watch North Carolina or Texas anything over Team USA.

There’s varied rule sets internationally in a lot of different sports vs. a U.S. domestic version. The U.S. pro sport (save soccer) will almost always outdraw an Olympic-type of comparative event.

I went to an amish rakefighting match once and loved it.  But that was before the Elkhart incident and all of the rules changes.

[Jason Bryant]

I went to an amish rakefighting match once and loved it.  But that was before the Elkhart incident and all of the rules changes.

Amos Mutke, the “Egg Noodle Assassin” is an all-time great.