Best 1-2 Punch

[Wrestleknownothing]

Brothers have won back-to-back six times.

MSU's Merle and Burl Jennings in 1942

Oklahoma State's Dwayne and Darrell Keller in 1970

Oklahoma's Dave and Mark Schultz in 1982

Nebraska's Jim and Bill Scherr in 1984

And the aforementioned Brands boys in 1990 and 1992

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Lee and DeSanto are definitely not the best ever duo, but pretty dang good.  Iowa hasn't had NCAA champs in back to back weights since 1999.  DeSanto and Lee might be Iowa's best since then.  They finished 1st and 3rd in 2021. I've listed other possible Iowa 1-2s from the past 25 years below that had an average finish of at least 2nd at NCAAs.  Lee being a 3x champ, 2x Hodge winner, >90% winning pct, and >80% bonus rate is probably just about the best better half of all the possible 1-2s.  DeSanto is an above average 3rd placer.  He had a >80% winning pct and >50% bonus rate.  He also had multiple wins over multiple NCAA champs and finalists - Bravo-Young x2, Byrd x4, Gomez, Gross, Lizak x2, Lovett x2, Micic, Mueller, and Suriano.

2021: Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44 NCAA Team points)
2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133);  Total (19.5+20=39.5)
2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5)
2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5)
2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32)
2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39)
2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5)
2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5)
2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35)
2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20*+22=42)
2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41)
2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43)
2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5)

*I only counted advancement and bonus points starting in the round of 32 and all TFs were counted as 1.5. Strittmatter had a pig tail in 2001 which he won by fall.  I did not count the points from that match, which would have added 3 to his total and the Strittmatter-Juergens total would have been 45, though at some point it became impossible for a wrestler seeded above 32 to have a pigtail, which everyone of these guys were.

prior to 2103 it was scored as a 64 man bracket. So if the bracket had more than 32 wrestlers any non-pigtail winners of a first round match got an extra advancement point just for showing up.

[PortaJohn]

13 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Lee and DeSanto are definitely not the best ever duo, but pretty dang good.

No one is claiming they aren't a solid duo.  It's a pushback back on Jimmy's incessant troll jobs.  

[11986]

18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Brothers have won back-to-back six times.

MSU's Merle and Burl Jennings in 1942

Oklahoma State's Dwayne and Darrell Keller in 1970

Oklahoma's Dave and Mark Schultz in 1982

Nebraska's Jim and Bill Scherr in 1984

And the aforementioned Brands boys in 1990 and 1992

Banachs in 1983 as well

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, 11986 said:

Banachs in 1983 as well

Oops

Yes, the Banachs too

Meaning back-to-back happened in 1982, 1983, and 1984. And each time it was brothers, and only brothers.

Edited Friday at 08:26 PM by Wrestleknownothing

[fishbane]

28 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

No one is claiming they aren't a solid duo.  It's a pushback back on Jimmy's incessant troll jobs.  

I get people clown on Jimmy, but there were plenty of people offering up other Iowa duos such as Gilman-Clark, McDonough-Ramos, and Strittmatter-Juergens that are pretty much a wash with Lee-DeSanto.  That reminds me I left off McD-Ramos.  Adding them below.  McDonough in 2012 was actually was the top scoring wrestler in the list.

2021:Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44 NCAA Team points)
2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133);  Total (19.5+20=39.5)
2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5)
2012: McDonough (1st 125), Ramos (3rd 133); Total (26+17.5=43.5)
2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5)
2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32)
2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39)
2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5)
2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5)
2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35)
2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20*+22=42)
2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41)
2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43)
2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5)

[fishbane]

33 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

prior to 2103 it was scored as a 64 man bracket. So if the bracket had more than 32 wrestlers any non-pigtail winners of a first round match got an extra advancement point just for showing up.

True.  I scored it from the round of 32 to better compare pre 2013 brackets with more recent ones. 

[PortaJohn]

3 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I get people clown on Jimmy, but there were plenty of people offering up other Iowa duos such as Gilman-Clark, McDonough-Ramos, and Strittmatter-Juergens that are pretty much a wash with Lee-DeSanto. 

The point remains.  Jimmy came into the conversation to troll. Intent matters. SLee/Desanto aren't even in the convo for Iowa's best duo.  There are plenty to draw from in the 90s and 80s

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, ScottishSteel said:

Any Ed Ruth reference makes me just immediately go to him picking up the major against Hamlin in 2013; just silly

100%.  That was one of the most “there’s levels to this game” moments I remember seeing in college wrestling for a long time.  It always looked like ruth was a bored big brother who was told to go play with his younger siblings for a while.

[ScottishSteel]

3 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

100%.  That was one of the most “there’s levels to this game” moments I remember seeing in college wrestling for a long time.  It always looked like ruth was a bored big brother who was told to go play with his younger siblings for a while.

One could argue that every loss he had in college was either injury (Amuchastegui) or he simply was overlooking the opponent and suddenly it was too late (Letts/Dean).  Definitely "coulda/shoulda" been an undefeated 4xer in my book

[D3 for LU]

I definitely notice that the above listings were past & established wrestlers consisting that 1-2 punch in the lineups.

But can I put forth a potential 1-2-3 punch in next season's LEHIGH lineup?

 

Sheldon Seymour (6th/125) @ 125

Ryan Crookham (3rd/133) @ 133

and

Luke Stanich (5th/125) @ 141

It's been awhile since LEHIGH had such a potential start (IF the dual starts at 125) in a dual like they do now.

(Huzzah!)

D3

 

[fishbane]

Here are the NCAA point totals as scored from the round of 32 using a 1.5 point TF for all 15 point wins and the current placement point allocation for all pairs of champs at back to back weights since 1970 inclusive.  The 2000-present best Iowa 1-2s are also included.  The list is ordered by combined team points first than year. 

The minimum number of team points from two champs is 40 (assuming no subtractions and zero bonus) and the maximum is 60 (all pinfalls).  No one pair hit the maximum.  The closest a single wrestler was to the max in the set  was David Taylor in 2012 with 29.5.  One pair hit the minimum - Steve Marianetti and Ernest Benion both won titles in 1995 without scoring a single bonus point.

2012: David Taylor (1st 165),  Ed Ruth (1st 174); Total (29.5+26.5=56)
2017: Zain Retherford (1st 149), Jason Nolf (1st 157); Total (28+27=55)
1973: Wade Schalles (1st 158), Bill Simpson(1st 167); Total (28+24=52)
1983: Ed Banach (1st 190), Lou Banach (1st Unl); Total (25+27=52)
1992: Tom Brands (1st 134), Troy Steiner (1st 142); Total (25+26.5=51.5)
1972: Ben Peterson (1st 190), Chris Taylor (1st Unl); Total (27+24=51)
1986: Kevin Dresser (1st 142), Jim Heffernan (1st 150); Total (26+25=51)
2019: Bo Nickal (1st 197), Anthony Cassar (1st 285): Total (27+24=51)
1992: Terry Brands (1st 126), Tom Brands (1st 134); Total (25.5+25=50.5)
2005: Johny Hendricks (1st 165), Chris Pendleton (1st 174); Total (25+25.5=50.5)
2024: Aaron Brooks (1st 197), Greg Kerkvliet (1st 285); Total (27+23.5=50.5)*
2017: Jason Nolf (1st 157), Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165); Total (27+23=50)
2017: Mark Hall (1st 174), Bo Nickal (1st 184); Total (22.5+27.5=50)
1975: Chuck Yagla (1st 150), Pat Holm (1st 158); Total (25+24.5=49.5)
1997: Lincoln McIlravy (1st 150), Joe Williams (1st 158); Total (24+25.5=49.5)
1970: Jason Smith (1st 167), Chuck Jean (1st 177); Total (25+24=49)
1982: Dave Schultz (1st 167), Mark Schultz (1st 177); Total (24+25=49)
1970: Dwayne Keller (1st 126), Darrell Keller (1st 134); Total (25.5+23=48.5)
1990: Terry Brands (1st 126), Tom Brands (1st 134); Total (23.5+24.5=48)
2018: Zain Retherford (1st 149), Jason Nolf (1st 157); Total (25+23=48)
1980: Joe Gonzales (1st 118), John Azevedo (1st 118); Total (24.5+23=47.5)
1984: Jim Scherr (1st 177), Bill Scherr (1st 190); Total (20**+27.5=47.5)
1996: Joe Williams (1st 158), Daryl Weber (1st 167); Total (22.5+25=47.5)
1987: Tim Krieger (1st 150), Stewart Carter (1st 158); Total (22+25=47)
1998: Teague Moore (1st 118), Eric Guerrero (1st 126); Total (23+24=47)
2002: Jared Lawrence (1st, 149), Luke Becker (1st 157); Total (23+24=47)
1993: Lincoln McIlravy (1st 142), Terry Steiner (1st 150); Total (21.5+25=46.5)
2023: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (24+22.5=46.5)
1970: Dave Martin (1st 158), Jason Smith (1st 167); Total (21+25=46)
1985: Melvin Douglas (1st 177), Dan Chaid (1st 190); Total (22+23=46)
1987: Royce Alger (1st 167), Rico Chiapparelli (1st 177); Total (25+21=46)
1999: Doug Schwab (1st 141), TJ Williams (1st 149); Total (22+24=46)
2005: Jake Rosholt (1st 197), Steve Mocco (1st 285); Total (20+23=46)
2021: Roman Bravo-Young (1st 133), Nick Lee (1st 141); Total (22.5+23.5=46)
2022: Roman Bravo-Young (1st 133), Nick Lee (1st 141); Total (23+23=46)
2025: Ridge Lovett (1st 149),Antrell Taylor (1st 157); Total (22.5+23.5=46)*
1998: Mark Ironside (1st 134), Jeff McGinness (1st 142); Total (23.5+22=45.5)
2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5)+
2017: Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165), Mark Hall (1st 174); Total (23+22.5=45.5)
1994: Pat Smith (1st 158), Mark Branch (1st 167); Total (24+21=45)
2018: Jason Nolf (1st 157), Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165); Total (23+21=44)
2021: Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44)+
2022: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (22+22=44)
2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5)+
2012: McDonough (1st 125), Ramos (3rd 133); Total (26+17.5=43.5)+
2012: Steve Bosak (1st 184), Cam Simaz (1st 197); Total (21+22.5=43.5)
2022: Aaron Brooks (1st 184), Max Dean (1st 197); Total (22+21.5=43.5)
1972: Greg Johnson (1st 118),  Pat Milkovich (1st 126); Total (22+21=43)
1993: Markus Mollica (1st 158), Ray Miller (1st 167); Total (20+23=43)
1993: Kevin Randleman (1st 177), Rex Holman (1st 190); Total (20+23=43)
2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43)+
2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20+22=42)+
2010: Jake Varner (21st 197), David Zabriskie (1st 285); Total (22+20=42)
2021: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (20+21.5=41.5)
1976: Lee Kemp (1st 158), Pat Christenson (1st 167); Total (21+20=41)
2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41)+
1995: Steve Marianetti (1st 150), Ernest Benion (1st 158); Total (20+20=40)
2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133);  Total (19.5+20=39.5)+
2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5)+
2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39)+
2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5)++
2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5)+
2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35)++
2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32)++
* 3 point TD
** Bye in the round of 32
+ One non-champ in the duo
++ Two non-champs in the duo

[fishbane]

7 minutes ago, D3 for LU said:

I definitely notice that the above listings were past & established wrestlers consisting that 1-2 punch in the lineups.

But can I put forth a potential 1-2-3 punch in next season's LEHIGH lineup?

 

Sheldon Seymour (6th/125) @ 125

Ryan Crookham (3rd/133) @ 133

and

Luke Stanich (5th/125) @ 141

It's been awhile since LEHIGH had such a potential start (IF the dual starts at 125) in a dual like they do now.

(Huzzah!)

D3

That's pretty good, but PSU could have 7 different 1-2-3 combos that outscore this one at NCAAs.  PSU's 5 back to back champs in 2017 is the only 1-2-3-4-5 punch combo of champs.   

[D3 for LU]

16 minutes ago, fishbane said:

That's pretty good, but PSU could have 7 different 1-2-3 combos that outscore this one at NCAAs.  PSU's 5 back to back champs in 2017 is the only 1-2-3-4-5 punch combo of champs.   

 ... let's just overlook what Superman's lineups could be and maybe... just maybe, focus a little bit more, on the Jimmy Olsen lineups from time to time? 

(tanxs very much, fb,  for the acknowledgement of LEHIGH... the JIMMY OLSEN's of the wrestling world. )

D3

Edited Saturday at 02:17 PM by D3 for LU

[manatree]

On 7/10/2025 at 3:27 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

does a 1-2 punch need to be back to back?

and I do not think we will find a better 1-2 in the four year era, but it will not stop me from trying

What whole number comes between 1 and 2?

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 minutes ago, manatree said:

What whole number comes between 1 and 2?

Like Homer Simpson, who invented a meal between breakfast and brunch, I am an innovator. 

[D3 for LU]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Like Homer Simpson, who invented a meal between breakfast and brunch, I am an innovator. 

Uh... hmmmm.

Something like...

D3

[Seanyd]

Track doesn't have team scores for 2007 but I'd guess with Matt Pell (3rd) and Ben Askren (1st) that'd be Mizzou's best 1-2 as far as NCAA pts.

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Seanyd said:

Track doesn't have team scores for 2007 but I'd guess with Matt Pell (3rd) and Ben Askren (1st) that'd be Mizzou's best 1-2 as far as NCAA pts.

I have Askren at 26 teams points and Pell at 22.5 in 2007 using today's scoring and omitting any pigtails.  That's a total of 48.5 which is more than many national champion 1-2s.  Pretty sure that's the most for a Missouri 1-2 at NCAAs, but Pell had an unexpectedly good tournament that year.  He placed 3rd from the 8 seed with 4 falls.

Interesting how often Missouri wrestlers dropped weight back then.  Pell dropped from 184 to 165 that aeason, Raymond Jordan was the 184 that year but would later drop to 174, and Max Askren was the 197.  Max would later drop to 184 where he won a national title.

[11986]

Rohn and Trenge for Lehigh in 2002 was another good 1-2 (and that's what they placed that year). Of their 9 combined wins at that tournament, 7 were pins.