Tom Brands hasn’t seen anyone better than Lee

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Dude, you're critiquing me for being biased for being an Iowa fan while making nonsensical points after admitting that you formed opinions about him from years ago.

Nothing I have seen since changes those opinions…

nithing lee himself has done since changes those opinions…

I welcome being 100% wrong…

But…

keep on keeping on…

we have all had bad days…

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

I know you’re a homer Vak. But come on

Right now your argument centers around him not being able to beat men because they come from less wealthy countries and thus want to feed their families, as if there's never been a wealthy wrestling champion.  Didn't Lebedev's family like own a diamond mine or something?  It's all 1960's "eat your cereal with grit if you want to be tough like the champ" mentality.

 

He has struggled later in matches during the regular season, but where has he been at the end of every season, usually wrestling multiple full matches?  And we're insinuating a lack of toughness as if he hasn't torn his ACL(s) multiple times and wrestled thru it (including mid match).  That's about as much adversity as you're going to find on the mat, and yet here we are.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

47 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

Bully as in if he can’t just run someone over or get a comfortable lead…. When the other dude is still right in it… He doesn’t seem to do as well. 
 

Being a gentleman or not has nothing to do with having a bully boy mentality that struggles with people still there after the initial rush..

Yeah, I don't think Spencer's mentality is any different from those other wrestlers. The decrease in scores after the first 2 periods has more to do with physical rather than mental conditioning.

Did you watch his NCAA matches from 3rd title run? He had tough matches with Schroeder, Hildebrandt, and Courtney. All lasting 3 periods. None of which featured any 3rd period gassing. That wasn't because Lee suddenly decided to not be a "bully", but rather because he had no acls and had to adjust his style and pace accordingly

 

 

[Formally140]

Just now, VakAttack said:

Right now your argument centers around him not being able to beat men because they come from less wealthy countries and thus want to feed their families, as if there's never been a wealthy wrestling champion.  Didn't Lebedev's family like own a diamond mine or something?  It's all 1960's "eat your cereal with grit if you want to be tough like the champ" mentality.

 

He has struggled later in matches during the regular season, but where has he been at the end of every season, usually wrestling multiple full matches?  And we're insinuating a lack of toughness as if he hasn't torn his ACL(s) multiple times and wrestled thru it (including mid match).  That's about as much adversity as you're going to find on the mat, and yet here we are.

You are ignoring everything else I said. I said what I see and think. The “food” thing is only a small part of it. 
 

If I really wanted to start a turdstorm. I would ask people to realistically look at the “style” Lee wrestles and his “body language” and if he wasn’t a Hawkeye.. yeah I’ll leave it at that. Would people see if the same way..

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

The decrease in scores after the first 2 periods has more to do with physical rather than mental conditioning.

It is all mental…

shocking this has to be acknowledged…

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

You are ignoring everything else I said. I said what I see and think. The “food” thing is only a small part of it. 
 

If I really wanted to start a turdstorm. I would ask people to realistically look at the “style” Lee wrestles and his “body language” and if he wasn’t a Hawkeye.. yeah I’ll leave it at that. Would people see if the same way..

Why not stop being weird and just say what you're trying to insinuate? 

[Formally140]

5 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Yeah, I don't think Spencer's mentality is any different from those other wrestlers. The decrease in scores after the first 2 periods has more to do with physical rather than mental conditioning.

Did you watch his NCAA matches from 3rd title run? He had tough matches with Schroeder, Hildebrandt, and Courtney. All lasting 3 periods. None of which featured any 3rd period gassing. That wasn't because Lee suddenly decided to not be a "bully", but rather because he had no acls and had to adjust his style and pace accordingly

 

 

Did you actually watch those matches? When was Lee ever really in a position where you were worried he’d lose because the other guy actually threatened to put him in danger 

[Formally140]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Why not stop being weird and just say what you're trying to insinuate? 

Eh, let’s just leave it at that. If Lee wrestled at another school and had the same cardio issues and body language.. would you look at him the same 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

3 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

Did you actually watch those matches? When was Lee ever really in a position where you were worried he’d lose because the other guy actually threatened to put him in danger 

Hmmm feels like your shifting goal posts. In earlier posts you said that if Lee couldn't bully his opponents in the 1st two periods that he would wilt. I provided (as well as another poster) examples of matches where Lee didn't bulldoze his opponents in the early goings of the match yet didn't wilt or lose

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

Eh, let’s just leave it at that. If Lee wrestled at another school and had the same cardio issues and body language.. would you look at him the same 

Yes, and the cardio issues are being way overblown here. He's tired late in matches, after wrestling much harder than most in the first period, but he's rarely "gassed", except his first match this year, and the first match two seasons ago.  There's a difference between being tired and gassing out.

[Formally140]

1 minute ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Hmmm feels like your shifting goal posts. In earlier posts you said that if Lee couldn't bully his opponents in the 1st two periods that he would wilt. I provided (as well as another poster) examples of matches where Lee didn't bulldoze his opponents in the early goings of the match yet didn't wilt or lose

Not moving goalposts. I’ll add the caveat that it’s pretty easy to coast when your are levels better than someone.

My bully boy wrestling refers to the athletes who can wrestle with him on his level when he’s healthy. 
 

Im not the only person, nor is LJB, the only person who thinks this about Lees wrestling.

By all accounts, he’s a good dude, class act, and has helped the popularity of wrestling. But my opinion of the way he wrestles is what it is 

[Formally140]

Just now, VakAttack said:

Yes, and the cardio issues are being way overblown here. He's tired late in matches, after wrestling much harder than most in the first period, but he's rarely "gassed", except his first match this year, and the first match two seasons ago.  There's a difference between being tired and gassing out.

I find that hard to believe as a Hawkeye fan

[Mr. PeanutButter]

4 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

Not moving goalposts. I’ll add the caveat that it’s pretty easy to coast when your are levels better than someone.

My bully boy wrestling refers to the athletes who can wrestle with him on his level when he’s healthy. 
 

Im not the only person, nor is LJB, the only person who thinks this about Lees wrestling.

By all accounts, he’s a good dude, class act, and has helped the popularity of wrestling. But my opinion of the way he wrestles is what it is 

I didn't take your slight against Lee or his character or whatever. Rather, I simply don't agree with your characterization of his wrestling. He hasnt lost since 2019. Since then, he has had 2 matches where he was behind at some point - Vito at senior nationals and Ramos just a few weeks ago. He convincingly beat both

[VakAttack]

Just now, Formally140 said:

Not moving goalposts. I’ll add the caveat that it’s pretty easy to coast when your are levels better than someone.

My bully boy wrestling refers to the athletes who can wrestle with him on his level when he’s healthy. 
 

Im not the only person, nor is LJB, the only person who thinks this about Lees wrestling.

By all accounts, he’s a good dude, class act, and has helped the popularity of wrestling. But my opinion of the way he wrestles is what it is 

Examples that run counter to what you're claiming are being provided and you're just like "...nah, doesn't count."

 

 

[VakAttack]

12 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

I find that hard to believe as a Hawkeye fan

What is it you think I would find irksome if he was wrestling in a different singlet?

[LJB]

Just now, VakAttack said:

Examples that run counter to what you're claiming are being provided and you're just like "...nah, doesn't count."

 

 

As is everyone else with a different opinion…

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

What is it you think I would find irksome if he was wrestling in a different singlet?

The reality?

just a guess…

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 minutes ago, LJB said:

The reality?

just a guess…

Pssst... LJB, post some clever stuff to 'gather the troops' (whatever that means.) It'll show a valiant effort. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by GreatWhiteNorth
Nice

[LJB]

1 minute ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Pssst... LBJ, post some clever stuff to 'gather the troops' (whatever that means.) It'll show a valiant effort. 

Clearly I used all my tricks up earlier today…

Apologies…

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, Formally140 said:

Eh, let’s just leave it at that. If Lee wrestled at another school and had the same cardio issues and body language.. would you look at him the same 

Yes. Three titles and on a seven pin streak toward his fourth title in dominating fashion? Yes, yes I would.

[jackwebster]

7 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

He won't need to wait for the Russians or Iranians to find no hesitation in attacking those knees. Gilman, Vito, and the rest of the US field at 57kg will be all over Spencer's knees. 

The Iowa faithful cried foul when Cardinale twisted Lee's knee in the NCAA's a few years ago. "Dirty" was the word that kept cropping up.

[jackwebster]

6 hours ago, Formally140 said:

I actually think he’s more of a bully than bruiser. When guys don’t go away mentally and are still there, he starts struggle busing. 
Most bruisers of his caliber don’t stop when the other guy doesn’t wilt. He does

 

though it might be pedantic quibbling in terms 

Word. He wanted Cardinale to lay down after getting up by 10. He musta went to the DF motivation workshop.

[Jamie_Taco]

9 hours ago, LJB said:

Clearly I used all my tricks up earlier today…

Apologies…

Lol this is truly all I can see when I read your posts in this thread:

[Jamie_Taco]

4 hours ago, jackwebster said:

The Iowa faithful cried foul when Cardinale twisted Lee's knee in the NCAA's a few years ago. "Dirty" was the word that kept cropping up.

Where are you getting this? I don't remember anyone from "the Iowa faithful" claiming this nor do I even remember the moment you are talking about. I just did a search on HR for "Cardinale dirty" and "Cardinale knee"  and came away with nothing. Not one post stating anything like you mentioned. I also went back rewatched the entire match and still can't figure out what you're talking about.

I'm guessing you saw one or two people tweet something about it when it happened and in your head that was "the Iowa faithful" crying. But hey, being wrong hasn't stopped you guys from running with a bunk narrative before, so why stop now?

[Formally140]

10 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Examples that run counter to what you're claiming are being provided and you're just like "...nah, doesn't count."

 

 

When I wrestled on a torn ACL, my cardio did much much better with guys I was simply much better than.. not so much with people as good or better than me. 

 

10 hours ago, VakAttack said:

What is it you think I would find irksome if he was wrestling in a different singlet?

His body language and jumping out to a lead and just holding on if he can’t close right away. Iowa fans tend to justify it in their athletes and decry other they think are doing it.. vehemently