All this transgender athlete fuss lately. . .

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

I do. he is a man

Again no. 

I've explained how this is implausible and unlikely to the point of being next to impossible under Algerian law. 

Under Algerian laws you cannot switch your gender on your official legal documents. So if Khelif were born a man, she could not get a passport or any other ID with a different gender on it. Algeria also does not allow gender affirming care, or medical procedures that do that. So if Khelif were born a man and tried to make the switch, it would be found out pretty quickly and there would be consequences. Like going to prison. 

But suppose that Khelif just simply ignored the fact it was illegal and did it anyway? The Algerian government would have found out and there is very little chance they would allow a transgender person, something that is not only illegal but extremely looked down upon in their society, compete in the Olympics for their country. I don't think it is likely or even a plausible idea somebody would break a long-standing law in such a public and open way, that would almost certainly guarantee getting caught, severely punished and ostracized from society. 

[JimmySpeaks]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah....I get it. I was mocking Scouts "If you say so" comment. 

He really isn't curious about anything ever. Or won't say he's wrong. You think you'd read that and rather than say "If you say so," use that prodigious googling ability. Or common sense. 

Speaking of being someone that won’t admit when they’re wrong.  You wrote the book on how to avoid it. 

[Scouts Honor]

52 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

Again no. 

I've explained how this is implausible and unlikely to the point of being next to impossible under Algerian law. 

Under Algerian laws you cannot switch your gender on your official legal documents. So if Khelif were born a man, she could not get a passport or any other ID with a different gender on it. Algeria also does not allow gender affirming care, or medical procedures that do that. So if Khelif were born a man and tried to make the switch, it would be found out pretty quickly and there would be consequences. Like going to prison. 

But suppose that Khelif just simply ignored the fact it was illegal and did it anyway? The Algerian government would have found out and there is very little chance they would allow a transgender person, something that is not only illegal but extremely looked down upon in their society, compete in the Olympics for their country. I don't think it is likely or even a plausible idea somebody would break a long-standing law in such a public and open way, that would almost certainly guarantee getting caught, severely punished and ostracized from society. 

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

Briggs should have been allowed to compete with the boys if they wanted to, but should not have been permitted to compete with the girls on the grounds of PEDs. There should be no therapeutic use exemption for a trans boy to take testosterone and compete with the girls - if you take testosterone then you compete against boys. And then trans girls should not be allowed to compete against girls under any circumstances.

Just because people raise this unique example does not make the discussion complicated. No TUE for girls transitioning to a boy(must compete against boys) and under no circumstances should a trans girl be allowed to compete against girls. i know it is not applying the same principles to each scenario, but males and females are not on equal ground for athletic competitions.

Of all people, I would think the wrestling community would know the need to separate men and women in competition, but I guess if you're confused about what a man or woman is, then you can't form a coherent argument 

You realize THIS isn't the "unique example," right? It's the trans athletes in sports that is FAR more rare. 

It ABSOLUTELY does make this complicated and you have to be obtuse to not understand this. 

1 in 20,000 people are born with DSD

Roughly 1 in 100 Female Olympic Athletes are born with some form of DSD. 

YOU'RE ignoring the complexity of this issue because you want it to be this simple. I agree. No biological Men in Women's sports. You still have people calling the Algerian boxer a Male. 

 

People want to make this as simple as you're making it...it's not. It's just not about trans athletes. 

[Seanyd]

9 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

The part where it says she supports trans rights?

Do you think everyone who supports trans rights is a trans person? 

The odds go up

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Again no. 

I've explained how this is implausible and unlikely to the point of being next to impossible under Algerian law. 

Under Algerian laws you cannot switch your gender on your official legal documents. So if Khelif were born a man, she could not get a passport or any other ID with a different gender on it. Algeria also does not allow gender affirming care, or medical procedures that do that. So if Khelif were born a man and tried to make the switch, it would be found out pretty quickly and there would be consequences. Like going to prison. 

But suppose that Khelif just simply ignored the fact it was illegal and did it anyway? The Algerian government would have found out and there is very little chance they would allow a transgender person, something that is not only illegal but extremely looked down upon in their society, compete in the Olympics for their country. I don't think it is likely or even a plausible idea somebody would break a long-standing law in such a public and open way, that would almost certainly guarantee getting caught, severely punished and ostracized from society. 

 

Oh stop Tripnsweep. Scouts/Jimmy understand how open minded those theocratic Muslim Nations are. 

Haven't you seen the Iranian Drag Queen parades! 

They also have to either be the same person or share a singular brain cell. 

 

2 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Speaking of being someone that won’t admit when they’re wrong.  You wrote the book on how to avoid it. 

This VERY topic stupid. I reacted to the girl from California who won some CIF sectionals and was called trans and I was wrong and admitted I was wrong.

You just post under your two accounts, repeat yourself on each and then post 4-5-6 times in a row and say nothing. Maybe you'll link something to Twitter. That's about it. 

[MPhillips]

6 minutes ago, Seanyd said:

The odds go up

To believe you considered this as, clever...

[Husker_Du]

On 6/9/2025 at 6:02 PM, 1032004 said:

I’m surprised Selina Soule doesn’t have more x followers.  I guess it’s a good thing that the Riley Gaines school of grifting hasn’t churned out more media personalities like her.  But Soule probably has the best argument of anyone as far as losing to biological males, taking 3rd to 2 different biological males.

you have to be an absolute moron to meet Gaines' position with 'but you still finished behind other girls'.

as if the debate depends at all on the person saying it. 

someone that was a dude last week, competing against the women this week has nothing to do with any person talking about it. 

it's called 'genetic fallacy'

debate the merits of the argument. the author/speaker is irrelevant. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

42 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you have to be an absolute moron to meet Gaines' position with 'but you still finished behind other girls'.

as if the debate depends at all on the person saying it. 

someone that was a dude last week, competing against the women this week has nothing to do with any person talking about it. 

it's called 'genetic fallacy'

debate the merits of the argument. the author/speaker is irrelevant. 

The author/speaker is actually quite relevant. Which is almost always the case.

Your claim of 'genetic fallacy' is wrong for that very reason.

We share a preference for arguments made on merit. At least I think we do.

Merit based argument doesn't discount the author or speaker.

Edited June 12 by GreatWhiteNorth

[scourge165]

51 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you have to be an absolute moron to meet Gaines' position with 'but you still finished behind other girls'.

as if the debate depends at all on the person saying it. 

someone that was a dude last week, competing against the women this week has nothing to do with any person talking about it. 

it's called 'genetic fallacy'

debate the merits of the argument. the author/speaker is irrelevant. 

Did someone say the first? Because she ONLY finished behind Girls. 

 

If you say so...

[scourge165]

12 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The author/speaker is actually quite relevant. Which is almost always the case.

Your claim of 'genetic fallacy' is wrong for that very reason.

We share a preference for arguments made on merit. At least I think we do.

Merit based argument doesn't discount the author or speaker.

I'm just tired of Gaines and her grifting. I mean, good for her, she's turned tying for 5th place and getting mailed the medal and making a couple million dollars a year to just say the SAME things over and over and go on bad debate shows.

 

I'm not even sure what we're talking about at this point. Are we talking about the nuance of women who may be DSD or have higher levels of T(which is not that for elite women athletes). 

Or 

"someone that was a dude last week, competing against the women this week has nothing to do with any person?"

Either way...enough of Riley Gaines. We can have his discussion without  Gaines.

[Husker_Du]

LIa Thomas. We're talking about Lia Thomas.

nothing changed, except the division she swam in.

i said it. not riley gaines.

now discuss its merits as if you weren't tribal. 

don't say 'yeah but it's only one race'

don't say 'yeah but it's rare'

discuss if it's a level playing field. 

[1032004]

5 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

you have to be an absolute moron to meet Gaines' position with 'but you still finished behind other girls'.

as if the debate depends at all on the person saying it. 

someone that was a dude last week, competing against the women this week has nothing to do with any person talking about it. 

it's called 'genetic fallacy'

debate the merits of the argument. the author/speaker is irrelevant. 

I wasn’t commenting on Gaines’ finish, I was commenting on Soule’s.  I said I was surprised Soule doesn’t have a bigger following because the took 3rd to 2 males.  She’s probably one of the only women in the world that can say that.

I don’t really care that Gaines got 5th place. I agree with her overall position that boys shouldn’t play women’s sports.  But I agree with @scourge165, she is the textbook definition of a grifter.  This recent situation with Simone Biles being a great example.  Gaines compared sexual abuse to competing against a boy, and somehow Biles is the only one of the two that apologized for anything.  And Biles didn’t even say she supported boys in girls sports!  Gaines, despite claiming she “didn’t care what Biles said,” made probably a dozen or so social media posts about it, then even after Biles apologized, Gaines went on Fox News to whine about it.

[1032004]

2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

LIa Thomas. We're talking about Lia Thomas.

nothing changed, except the division she swam in.

i said it. not riley gaines.

now discuss its merits as if you weren't tribal. 

don't say 'yeah but it's only one race'

don't say 'yeah but it's rare'

discuss if it's a level playing field. 

The NCAA no longer allows trans women to participate in women’s sports.

[1032004]

I think one indication people like Gaines are not just about “fairness in sports” is their insistence on calling trans women/girls “he.”  You don’t even have to say “she,” just use their name, even just their last name if you don’t believe in calling them their female name.

But many of them don’t just want trans folks out of sports, they want them out of society all together.

[JimmyCinnabon]

15 hours ago, dhay79 said:

Such virtue-signaling.

I'm not sure you understand what virtue-signaling is. 

[Scouts Honor]

i was at my liberal in laws house yesterday. and my wifes aunt and uncle were there as well, helping to take care of the father in law who just had hip replacement.

towards the end of our visit the uncle made a comment about the game of life. they are very liberal, but he said this. My grandson told me when i went to pick a spouse, for the game, that it didn't have to be a girl. He explained to his grandson that he liked his grandmother very much so he was going to pick a girl.

then the aunt chimes in, yes, he has a friend who is trans... they are like 6. 

i just looked at them

then she says it's probably b/c of their crazy mother and all the drugs she did and and all the drugs she gave the kids.

the mother is a nurse and would tell doctors what to prescribe them and if they didn't she would find a new doctor.

this is where the problem lies

[JimmySpeaks]

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 

Oh stop Tripnsweep. Scouts/Jimmy understand how open minded those theocratic Muslim Nations are. 

Haven't you seen the Iranian Drag Queen parades! 

They also have to either be the same person or share a singular brain cell. 

 

This VERY topic stupid. I reacted to the girl from California who won some CIF sectionals and was called trans and I was wrong and admitted I was wrong.

You just post under your two accounts, repeat yourself on each and then post 4-5-6 times in a row and say nothing. Maybe you'll link something to Twitter. That's about it. 

Sadly you’re wrong about every other post.  Up your game scroogie,   

My original and now second account is JimmyBT but I’m too lazy to find the password to resurrect.  Good try though.  
 

Those quick witty sentences are to offset your lengthy paragraphs of babble that no one ever finishes reading. 
 

Sorry I’m not on X 
 

 

 

[Doublehalf]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

discuss if it's a level playing field. 

This is the problem...

 

what you all mean by wanting to discuss on a level playing field really is just the playing field you choose to have the discussion and anything antithetical to that is met with ad hominem attacks or taking a conversation in a completely different direction that is borderline nonsensical making it near impossible to respond to. Not to mention conservatives in this day and age are the masters of whataboutism to rationalize their arguments when they know they don't have a leg to stand on...

Edited June 12 by Doublehalf

[Gene Mills Fan]

   Why is women's sports the one that has to be all inclusive?     

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Algeria has laws against that. Being gay in Algeria can get you thrown in jail or prison. I doubt they're going to be understanding of anything transgender. Much less allow somebody who is to represent them in the Olympics multiple times. I wonder why nobody said anything about Khelif until she won an Olympic gold and not in the 10 years prior she competed internationally. 

First of all: I'm not even sure where I stand on the Khelif situation.  There is too much contradictory info out there.

But: Stuff was said about Khelif before the tournament; and to say that nothing was said in the 10 years prior just demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge.

As far as laws: Afghanistan also has laws against being gay; however that does not stop the widespread Pashtun custom of men repeatedly violating young boys; even having harems of them.

[JimmyCinnabon]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

i was at my liberal in laws house yesterday. and my wifes aunt and uncle were there as well, helping to take care of the father in law who just had hip replacement.

towards the end of our visit the uncle made a comment about the game of life. they are very liberal, but he said this. My grandson told me when i went to pick a spouse, for the game, that it didn't have to be a girl. He explained to his grandson that he liked his grandmother very much so he was going to pick a girl.

then the aunt chimes in, yes, he has a friend who is trans... they are like 6. 

i just looked at them

then she says it's probably b/c of their crazy mother and all the drugs she did and and all the drugs she gave the kids.

the mother is a nurse and would tell doctors what to prescribe them and if they didn't she would find a new doctor.

this is where the problem lies

I am relieved to learn that a guy on the Intermat wrestling forums has figured it all out! This is truly amazing man. The history books will talk about the Intermat wrestling forum and the great Scouts Honor who led the world into an age of enlightenment. Praise be to Scouts Honor!

[Gene Mills Fan]

It is easy to understand that a DSD person with obscured genitalia where only a vagina was visible would be certified as a woman at birth in Algeria.

Agreed There was never a trans gender change. the label did not account for the internal testes or male hormone production capability. They did not test XY at birth in Algeria. she was categorized by visual inspection.

Yes the Algerians that know her have always known her as a woman. But What is true the biological requirement for competition against biological YY females? And why can't you ask what's fair?

Edited June 12 by Gene Mills Fan

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

LIa Thomas. We're talking about Lia Thomas.

nothing changed, except the division she swam in.

i said it. not riley gaines.

now discuss its merits as if you weren't tribal. 

don't say 'yeah but it's only one race'

don't say 'yeah but it's rare'

discuss if it's a level playing field. 

What MORE would you like me to say about Lia Thomas that I haven't made...ABUNDANTLY clear regarding my opinion on here? 

Never said 'Yeah but it's only one race.'

Didn't say 'yeah, but it's rare.'

 

[Tripnsweep]

34 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

First of all: I'm not even sure where I stand on the Khelif situation.  There is too much contradictory info out there.

But: Stuff was said about Khelif before the tournament; and to say that nothing was said in the 10 years prior just demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge.

As far as laws: Afghanistan also has laws against being gay; however that does not stop the widespread Pashtun custom of men repeatedly violating young boys; even having harems of them.

You're comparing two different things. Iran and most other majority Muslim countries also have laws against being gay. Iran's president once said gay people don't exist in Iran. Obviously he's wrong, and there are gay people everywhere. Iran executed somebody who did something like what you described, by throwing them off a cliff. 

But do you think any of these countries would allow an openly gay or transgender person to compete for them in the Olympics? That would be a huge embarrassment and it wouldn't be allowed. 

https://iranhr.net/en/articles/81/

Edited June 12 by Tripnsweep