Tech fall % at us open is ridiculous

[Caveira]

Counted a few weighs.  Upwards of 75% of all matches end in tech fall or fall.  I didn’t count ff.   
 

that is just wrong….  Why is it such a high %????? 

[MPhillips]

Just now, Caveira said:

Counted a few weighs.  Upwards of 75% of all matches end in tech fall or fall.  I didn’t count ff.   
 

that is just wrong….  Why is it such a high %????? 

OPEN...

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

OPEN...

That accounts for maybe the early rounds.  But 75% isn’t high to you ?   

[NotThatDave]

15 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Counted a few weighs.  Upwards of 75% of all matches end in tech fall or fall.  I didn’t count ff.   
 

that is just wrong….  Why is it such a high %????? 

Because freestyle is stupid.

[Husker]

Curious how many were leg laces? I saw a few of them on highlight/recap videos. Get a leg lace going and the match is over. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

17 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Counted a few weighs.  Upwards of 75% of all matches end in tech fall or fall.  I didn’t count ff.   
 

that is just wrong….  Why is it such a high %????? 

Ikr? Why can't we go back to an era with 0-0 scores culminating in arbitrary ball grab/clinches. Matches are too quick and there's just too much damn scoring these days. Make it less exciting!!

[Truzzcat]

I would guess a combination of weights being top heavy, guys quitting mentally on the backside or guys getting fatigued and quitting in the match. Freestyle allows you to exploit momentary lapses in effort far more than folk does i.e. getting a lace or trap arm off a takedown.

[mspart]

The tech fall criteria did not change when they went to a 2 point takedown.   So it was harder to get a tech fall unless you could gut or lace your way into oblivion. 

mspart

[Winners Circle]

48 minutes ago, Caveira said:

That accounts for maybe the early rounds.  But 75% isn’t high to you ?   

Not really.

[Coastal]

That number will drop substantially at the WTT as one has to qualify for that event.   

 

Top end wrestlers didn't break a sweat until the quarters or semis in most cases.

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

OPEN...

Did first two weights of men’s senior worlds last year.  50% tf/falls.   Still a ton.  

[Coastal]

5 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Did first two weights of men’s senior worlds last year.  50% tf/falls.   Still a ton.  

There's a lot of countries at Worlds that wouldn't place in the top 50 in the stronger countries.

[MPhillips]

16 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Did first two weights of men’s senior worlds last year.  50% tf/falls.   Still a ton.  

I appreciate you keeping me abreast of the situation. I really don't care though...

[alex1fly]

2 hours ago, NotThatDave said:

Because freestyle is stupid.

Come on. Just prevent the leg lace, it's that simple. Then fart on the ref but blame it on your opponent so the ref gives you preferential treatment.

I kid. But damn if refs don't get a lot of sway in freestyle.

[Eagle26]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

The tech fall criteria did not change when they went to a 2 point takedown.   So it was harder to get a tech fall unless you could gut or lace your way into oblivion. 

mspart

And when they added multiple turns and when they added step outs. Techs are a lot easier to come by in Freestyle. I love almost everything about the current freestyle rules, but I would personally like to see us go back to one turn and then you have to change holds. We got to see a lot more great wrestling IMO

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

And when they added multiple turns and when they added step outs. Techs are a lot easier to come by in Freestyle. I love almost everything about the current freestyle rules, but I would personally like to see us go back to one turn and then you have to change holds. We got to see a lot more great wrestling IMO

I honestly don’t care what they do with their product as long as they stop trying to corrupt the folkstyle product.  

[boconnell]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

Counted a few weighs.  Upwards of 75% of all matches end in tech fall or fall.  I didn’t count ff.   
 

that is just wrong….  Why is it such a high %????? 

Why is it wrong?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Change freestyle to pushouts only

[Idaho]

3 hours ago, Husker said:

Curious how many were leg laces? I saw a few of them on highlight/recap videos. Get a leg lace going and the match is over. 

Yep.. real fast.  Also common are two takedowns and a few guts.

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yep.. real fast.  Also common are two takedowns and a few guts.

I didn’t count specifically but I bet 90% of the techs are 10-0.    A few were 12-2.  Rarely if ever were they a good match like 24-14.   The scoring in freestyle today is silly.   Please keep all of it out of folkstyle.  

[Eagle26]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

I honestly don’t care what they do with their product as long as they stop trying to corrupt the folkstyle product.  

I don’t think they (UWW) care what America does with its folkstyle. I do think we would be better served and have a better product if we could work some freestyle concepts into folk. Step outs would be a huge improvement. I also would like to see some way stop the boring endless riding (ex. The ref brings them up after a certain amount of time). I do like the control aspect of folkstyle but overall the rules are better in freestyle. We could definitely make folk a little more like free while still maintaining the core concepts of folkstyle

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t think they (UWW) care what America does with its folkstyle. I do think we would be better served and have a better product if we could work some freestyle concepts into folk. Step outs would be a huge improvement. I also would like to see some way stop the boring endless riding (ex. The ref brings them up after a certain amount of time). I do like the control aspect of folkstyle but overall the rules are better in freestyle. We could definitely make folk a little more like free while still maintaining the core concepts of folkstyle

This board had argued this time and again 

majority of fans don’t like freestyle 

majority of athletes don’t like freestyle. 

most “wrestling” Americans don’t care if we do better in worlds or Olympics and we’re already a world power so there isn’t much more we can improve on the world stage  

I posted #s to back both up last summer maybe.  Not going to look up the thread…..  very very small % of wrestlers make it to the wtt level.  You’re ruining a sport for more athletes for a few more / better medals.  It’s selfish on the freestyle peeps part. 
 

pretend this is in caps:

you already have a freestyle season.  Use it. 

you don’t have to wrestle folkstyle if you want to be a oly champ… you just can go to Colorado or a rtc 

no one is stopping the super elite from being super elite.  Freestyle is everywhere.  Go wrestle it if you want to.  
 

leave folkstyle alone.  You will ruin it for 85+% of the fans.  

Edited 49 minutes ago by Caveira

[Eagle26]

6 minutes ago, Caveira said:

This board had argued this time and again 

majority of fans don’t like freestyle 

majority of athletes don’t like freestyle. 

most “wrestling” Americans don’t care if we do better in worlds or Olympics and we’re already a world power so there isn’t much more we can improve on the world stage  

I posted #s to back both up last summer maybe.  Not going to look up the thread…..  very very small % of wrestlers make it to the wtt level.  You’re ruining a sport for more athletes for a few more / better medals.  It’s selfish on the freestyle peeps part. 
 

pretend this is in caps:

you already have a freestyle season.  Use it. 

you don’t have to wrestle folkstyle if you want to be a oly champ… you just can go to Colorado or a rtc 

no one is stopping the super elite from being super elite.  Freestyle is everywhere.  Go wrestle it if you want to.  
 

leave folkstyle alone.  You will ruin it for 85+% of the fans.  

The majority of people don’t like what is foreign to them. In my experience, most wrestlers and fans that truly get to know both styles end up preferring freestyle. I know that won’t change your mind and that’s ok. I agree we don’t have to completely change folkstyle. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with changing the rules to make a good product better. 

[Caveira]

16 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

The majority of people don’t like what is foreign to them. In my experience, most wrestlers and fans that truly get to know both styles end up preferring freestyle. I know that won’t change your mind and that’s ok. I agree we don’t have to completely change folkstyle. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with changing the rules to make a good product better. 

I wrestled tons of freestyle when I was a kid and in college.  States.  Fargo.  Etc.  I liked it.  Tbh.  
 

You already have a freestyle season.  Why come for folkstyle season?   Can’t we just have both.  Folkstyle can have the fans and the better national tournament.  Freestyle can have far less attend the us open and wtt and we can be fine.