Weigh-ins

[Caveira]

45 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Most of those sports are not sponsored by US high schools, so this lead to a relatively small number of athletes participating.

Even at the senior level, athletes in those sports do not cut the amount wrestlers do, with the exception of MMA.

Really?  Just random google regarding judo

86% of judoka reported that they have deliberately lost weightin order to make their fighting weight. The largest amount of weight loss reported – 20 kg. Average weight lost in order to make fighting weight – 4.0 kg. Average time judoka allow to make weight – 15 days.

[Elevator]

3 hours ago, Husker U said:

Wrestlers now have to weigh-in wearing their singlets.  

I would have to concede that is has been many years since I attended a weigh-in.

[Pin Head]

8 hours ago, NYupstate said:

I am a new wrestling fan (I didn't wrestle when I was young). My 14 yr old son got into it this year and drew my interest along.

 

Be vigilant about any drastic weight loss attempts. Attended my 50-year high school reunion. The lightweight guys that had plastic suits, spit cups and starvation diets all look horrible. They look twenty years older than they are, bent over, joint pain etc. beyond a typical 68 year old. Let your son eat, grow and burn energy. When needed, 3-5 pounds over time can be accomplished safely. He has a long life ahead of him, good luck.

Just an old fart observation.

[Fletcher]

46 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Really?  Just random google regarding judo

86% of judoka reported that they have deliberately lost weightin order to make their fighting weight. The largest amount of weight loss reported – 20 kg. Average weight lost in order to make fighting weight – 4.0 kg. Average time judoka allow to make weight – 15 days.

But what is that in stones?

Go back to Europe! USA, USA!

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, jross said:

I could go softer and say they don't understand the power behind their authority when discussing weight.  If I'm 160 pounds, and the coach says we need you at 145lbs... its a problem.  If the wrestler says I can't and the coach says... but you were 153lb last Friday... just go about it the right way.  I'm sure you can do it.  Then has you weigh in daily and work extra before/after school...  Yea the coach wants you to win, and they want to win.  The coach isn't saying... you know what... you should wrestle 160lbs.  Let's get a nutrition plan and we'll get you down to 145lb over the course of 12 months, if that's what you want, and here are the trade offs (e.g. lost strength, more quickness, etc.).  The coach cares... its just their words can result in bad outcomes.  Or just allowing a wrestler to self-select to wrestle lower weights... when they see the newly sunken cheeks and low energy... come on coach!  Coaching has more responsibility beyond teaching moves and mental strength.

None of this has anything to do with matside weigh ins vs one hour weigh ins.

If coaches tell kids they are needed down 15 lbs, then they care about a lot of things, and the athlete probably isn't one of them.  But they can tell kids they're needed down with matside weigh ins, and they can tell kids they aren't needed down with one hour weigh ins.  

If you want to argue that coaches who push unhealthy or unneccessary weight cutting don't care about kids, then you've got a great argument.  If you want to push that coaches who prefer one hour weigh ins to matside weigh ins don't care about kids, then you have completely lost it.

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

Most of those sports are not sponsored by US high schools, so this lead to a relatively small number of athletes participating.

Even at the senior level, athletes in those sports do not cut the amount wrestlers do, with the exception of MMA.

You don't know about those sports if you think they all cut less weight.  Weight cutting is nuts across every sport with weight classes.  Horse racing goes beyond matside weigh ins and requires a weigh in and a weigh out after the race, and the jockeys still cut amounts of weight that would match or exceed wrestlers.  

 

But you make a great point about HS participation and a responsibility to young wrestlers.

Edited Thursday at 07:11 PM by boconnell

[ionel]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

You don't know about those sports if you think they all cut less weight.  Weight cutting is nuts across every sport with weight classes.  Horse racing goes beyond matside weigh ins and requires a weigh in and a weigh out after the race, and the jockeys still cut amounts of weight that would match or exceed wrestlers.  

Cross Country is bad.  

[Elevator]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRash said:

wrestlers have never been accused of being smart

hopefully at least a few are smarter than they/we look!

[boconnell]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

Cross Country is bad.  

College CC and track don't have weigh ins, but coaches body fat test their athletes and it's far unhealthier than weight cutting in wrestling.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Matside weigh-ins + nonlinear weight order (for duals) would be fun for fans. Flip a coin to see which team gets to pick the first weight of the dual. The two guys at the selected weight hop on the scale. Weights are flashed on the jumbotron or whatever, and  theywrestle their match. At the end of the match, the other team picks the next weight, and it goes back and forth until all weight classes are wrestled.

Would be fun for fans to see what wrestlers weigh-in at (or if they miss weight), and for coaches to be strategic about the order of weight classes to win the dual. Lots of prop bets for sure. 

[Gene Mills Fan]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

Cross Country is bad.  

Wkn are swimmers faster skinny with less profile or fatter with added buoyancy?  Our High school long distance female swimmer won states and could have made our wrestling team as a HWT. 

[boconnell]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Matside weigh-ins + nonlinear weight order (for duals) would be fun for fans. Flip a coin to see which team gets to pick the first weight of the dual. The two guys at the selected weight hop on the scale. Weights are flashed on the jumbotron or whatever, and  theywrestle their match. At the end of the match, the other team picks the next weight, and it goes back and forth until all weight classes are wrestled.

Would be fun for fans to see what wrestlers weigh-in at (or if they miss weight), and for coaches to be strategic about the order of weight classes to win the dual. Lots of prop bets for sure. 

Prop bets?  So we want to make things healthier with matside weighins, but then encourage gambling on a sport that doesn't have a professional level?  Genius.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Just now, boconnell said:

Prop bets?  So we want to make things healthier with matside weighins, but then encourage gambling on a sport that doesn't have a professional level?  Genius.

You don't think it's already happening in college sports?

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

You don't think it's already happening in college sports?

I guess if it's happening already we should try to create more gambling.  Maybe if weight cutting is happening we should try to make that worse too.

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

I guess if it's happening already we should try to create more gambling.  Maybe if weight cutting is happening we should try to make that worse too.

Maybe, does weight cutting draw casuals to the sport? 

[boconnell]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Maybe, does weight cutting draw casuals to the sport? 

So now we should be gambling friendly to attract imaginary casual viewers to the sport?  

Edited Thursday at 07:25 PM by boconnell

[CHROMEBIRD]

Just now, boconnell said:

So now we should be gambling friendly to attract imaginary casual viewers to the sport?  

Idk, does wrestling need to grow its viewership #s? Seems to be working in other sports. You don't have to participate (I don't). But it would be gravy, if nothing else, to go with matside weigh-ins.

[11986]

3 hours ago, boconnell said:

Is it a black eye for MMA, Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, kick boxing, power lifting, rowing, horse racing, sprint football, and youth football?

I might seriously coach the HS team that cuts the least weight in the entire state of washington.  I have no attachment to weight cutting, but vilifying it is silly.

 

3 hours ago, Jim L said:

Most of those sports are not sponsored by US high schools, so this lead to a relatively small number of athletes participating.

Even at the senior level, athletes in those sports do not cut the amount wrestlers do, with the exception of MMA.

I used to compete in powerlifting after the wrestling days were in the rear view and now it's been a long time since I competed in PL. I don't really follow it anymore either but when I last was into it there was at least one prominent PL organization that had weigh-ins 48 hours prior to competition. Weight cuts were crazy in some cases. Guys setting records in the 165 class weighing close to 200 by the time they lifted. 

[jross]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

None of this has anything to do with matside weigh ins vs one hour weigh ins.

If coaches tell kids they are needed down 15 lbs, then they care about a lot of things, and the athlete probably isn't one of them.  But they can tell kids they're needed down with matside weigh ins, and they can tell kids they aren't needed down with one hour weigh ins.  

If you want to argue that coaches who push unhealthy or unneccessary weight cutting don't care about kids, then you've got a great argument.  If you want to push that coaches who prefer one hour weigh ins to matside weigh ins don't care about kids, then you have completely lost it.

For any proposal, I’m asking: Does it advance or undermine the goal of stopping extreme weight cuts? Weigh-ins one hour before each match streamline logistics while leaving too little time to recover from a drastic cut.

However, with multiple matches in a day, the system must ensure a wrestler doesn’t hit their weight class for match one and then balloon 5-10 pounds heavier by match three.

...If the weight class is 152, the two wrestlers ought to be less than or equal to 152lbs during the match.

...if a wrestler is worried about making weight mat side, they are at the wrong weight.

...a coach and wrestler talking about nutrition and hydration over a couple pounds is fine; that is definitely not what I experienced as a wrestler or observed for my daughter during HS.

[Winners Circle]

Cutting weight is part of the deal. I like it being a part of our sport to be honest (at the high school and college levels only, I'm against it in age groups below that). It teaches self-disciple, dedication, determination, etc. No one is making you cut weight (or at least they shouldn't be). So if you don't like it, go up a weight. But I think it's a great part of our sport. Now that doesn't mean the process is fun, we all know it sucks. But, the cutting weight strategy has changed a great deal. It's no longer about starving yourself etc. If you do it the right way you can still perform at a high level. 

[jross]

10 minutes ago, 11986 said:

 

I used to compete in powerlifting after the wrestling days were in the rear view and now it's been a long time since I competed in PL. I don't really follow it anymore either but when I last was into it there was at least one prominent PL organization that had weigh-ins 48 hours prior to competition. Weight cuts were crazy in some cases. Guys setting records in the 165 class weighing close to 200 by the time they lifted. 

Anyone pass out while lifting?  Forget to breathe... plus dehydrated?

[boconnell]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

For any proposal, I’m asking: Does it advance or undermine the goal of stopping extreme weight cuts? Weigh-ins one hour before each match streamline logistics while leaving too little time to recover from a drastic cut.

However, with multiple matches in a day, the system must ensure a wrestler doesn’t hit their weight class for match one and then balloon 5-10 pounds heavier by match three.

...If the weight class is 152, the two wrestlers ought to be less than or equal to 152lbs during the match.

...if a wrestler is worried about making weight mat side, they are at the wrong weight.

...a coach and wrestler talking about nutrition and hydration over a couple pounds is fine; that is definitely not what I experienced as a wrestler or observed for my daughter during HS.

Great points.

They don't make it any less absurd that you said a coach who supports one hour weighins doesn't care about kids.

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

I guess if it's happening already we should try to create more gambling.  Maybe if weight cutting is happening we should try to make that worse too.

Gamblers gamble on literally everything.  

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Cutting weight is part of the deal. I like it being a part of our sport to be honest (at the high school and college levels only, I'm against it in age groups below that). It teaches self-disciple, dedication, determination, etc. No one is making you cut weight (or at least they shouldn't be). So if you don't like it, go up a weight. But I think it's a great part of our sport. Now that doesn't mean the process is fun, we all know it sucks. But, the cutting weight strategy has changed a great deal. It's no longer about starving yourself etc. If you do it the right way you can still perform at a high level. 

Any time you mix sports.  Glory.  Weight classes and human nature.   You will have cutting.   Period.   

some people on here advocate and fight that it’s right and ok to do eighth grade twice to get a competitive advantage later in life….. and that sort of behavior is not immoral at all.  Shyte one guy even advocated that steroid use was ok…. But I digress.  

[jross]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

Cutting weight is part of the deal. I like it being a part of our sport to be honest (at the high school and college levels only, I'm against it in age groups below that). It teaches self-disciple, dedication, determination, etc. No one is making you cut weight (or at least they shouldn't be). So if you don't like it, go up a weight. But I think it's a great part of our sport. Now that doesn't mean the process is fun, we all know it sucks. But, the cutting weight strategy has changed a great deal. It's no longer about starving yourself etc. If you do it the right way you can still perform at a high level. 

My experience is that HS wrestling is lip service and virtue signaling when it comes to weight management.  And even when nutrition is taught, the student is undisciplined and impatient.  ...and we still have kids cheating hydration tests...