Let The Stock Market Burn!!!

[JimmySpeaks]

18 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The top 10% of the wealthy people already pay ~90% of federal taxes.   What % of federal taxes should they pay to be “fair”?

Just under Half the eligible tax payers pay ZERO FEDERAL IMCOME TAX 

[1032004]

42 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Did you miss the part where I said WHEN THE DEBT IS 2X to 3X the GDP?

Also, what is do different about this Country NOW vs under Eisenhower when people paid the higher tax rate because people KNEW we HAD to(and we STILL had massive wage growth and an economic boon)?

 

What do you think becomes of the US at that point? 

This is quite literally a matter of National Security. I don't WANT to pay another 10K in taxes, but if it were to help the United States eliminate the deficit and THEN start to work to pay down the debt...I would absolutely do that...because there's really no sense in leave your children 10M dollars when that FIAT currently is destined to fail given the path we're on. 

This used to be something the Republicans PRETENDED to care about(though only the Democrats did something about). 

The cut to the Estate Tax was made permanent as well as the amount of money you could gift tax free were also made permanent. Taxes that overwhelmingly favor the rich. 

Oh, and the 529 tax break for K through 12 was made permanent. AGAIN, another that is something the rich OVERWHELMINGLY us vs everyone else. People invest money in a 529 so they can save for their child's College education. The wealthy put money in it so they can pay for 20,000 dollar a year private school. 

Things like the child tax credit and individual tax rates were not made permanent. 

 

This OVERWHELMINGLY favored the top .1%, 1% and top 5%. 

 

Right, and they sunset those, but they made the corporate tax rate(which was already a joke.

Mind you the effective corporate tax rate prior to the 2017 cuts was 9%. So an already lower tax rate than any employee at a company that makes tens of billions a year. 

That's permanent. 

 

Again...this isn't political beyond NOT wanting to see the United States go the way of the Soviet Union and spend itself into the ground. 

There will be no Nation that will step up and help us out as we did then. 

 

Taxes suck. 

For the first time ever I actually bought a few BTC this year. 

 

Average lifespan of a Fiat currency 40 years. Do the math. Look how long it's been since we were taking off the Gold Standard(thereby making the dollar a Fiat currency). 

 

You also have to realize that when even corporations are largely in favor of repealing the permanent tax cuts from 2017 because they see the downgraded credit from Moody's and the ticking time bomb that is the bond market, they realize paying that 9% in taxes vs 6%...is worth it. 

 

Now if corporations payed ANYWHERE NEAR 21%...hell, even if they actually paid 15%, this would largely eliminate he problems we have with the deficit. 

 

Listen to what Buffett is saying here?

Edit-forgot to link the video;

 

Yeah I don’t really disagree with you as far as what is better for the country.  Just saying most people wouldn’t like taking home less money.  

And yes, looks like when the cuts happened in 2017 they benefited the upper classes more.  But if the choice is extend it all or let it all expire I bet most people would choose to extend it.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

16 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I don’t really disagree with you as far as what is better for the country.  Just saying most people wouldn’t like taking home less money.  

And yes, looks like when the cuts happened in 2017 they benefited the upper classes more.  But if the choice is extend it all or let it all expire I bet most people would choose to extend it.

I'll translate for you:

You don't care about what is better for the country. You just want as much money for yourself as you can obtain.

And if the rich get far richer, while you're getting more money that's OK. As long as you get more money, the rich can enjoy.

This is no accident, this is exactly what the R's have been doing. Send out checks to the basic population, make them happy to get a bump. While the top 10% of the population cash in with checks that are 10,000 times bigger and none of the basic population is the wiser.

We just need to find a way to educate the 'basic' population to be a little less basic. (They'll earn more in the end.)

[scourge165]

19 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I don’t really disagree with you as far as what is better for the country.  Just saying most people wouldn’t like taking home less money.  

And yes, looks like when the cuts happened in 2017 they benefited the upper classes more.  But if the choice is extend it all or let it all expire I bet most people would choose to extend it.

You may be right. People are short sighted...and many people are just trying to survive. One thing that baffles me is how you're eliminating the subsidies on on the ACA. The cost of health insurance is going to sky rocket next year. The very thing the ACA was created to curb. But they keep stripping away piece by piece. 

But that's why it shouldn't target those making under 50K a year or should keep the child tax credit. 

 

But we have to change something. The corporate tax rate. Christ, just make it 12% but make it 12% on net revenue. That's a lot more money. Raise taxes on incomes over 400K.

I don't want to see Capital Gains go away as... that's where most of my money comes from, but maybe you make it 5%, 17.5% and 22.5% and if it's part of a CEOs compensation package, it's taxes as income.

 

Cut military spending by 25%

Do these things while you CAN and not when you absolutely HAVE to and things are already crumbling. 

 

Hell, maybe it's easy to say since I know it won't happen, but that's what I'd do. 

 

***The ONE thing I would also chance, the estate tax.

#1-You exempt small farms, BUT...it is taxable if you sell within 5 years. These farmers live their whole lives sitting on...millions or tens of millions of dollars of "net worth," but...they are barely getting by and they've been screwed enough. There are Family farms all around me and since I was a kid, they've tried to figure out how they were going to keep it in the Family. 

-These people feed us. Don't let them go under because of the value of their land.

 

#2-Don't raise the exemptions for anyone else.

Tax liquid assets and then do not reset the capital gains for equities or property. If you Great Grandpa bought land for 150K in 1950 and it's worth 15M now, when you sell that, you have to pay the capital gains.

 

This isn't a "the right are evil" post, this is a KEEP America Great and go back to the playbook that's worked for us in the past when we've accrued his type of debt. 

Also, 86 the tariffs on our allies. A growing GDP gives you a much stronger tax base. 

Imagine getting our Debt back down to 50% of the GDP instead of 130% or whatever it's going to be in 2-3 years. 

Raise the minimum retirement age for those of us under 50 to 65. 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I'll translate for you:

You don't care about what is better for the country. You just want as much money for yourself as you can obtain.

And if the rich get far richer, while you're getting more money that's OK. As long as you get more money, the rich can enjoy.

This is no accident, this is exactly what the R's have been doing. Send out checks to the basic population, make them happy to get a bump. While the top 10% of the population cash in with checks that are 10,000 times bigger and none of the basic population is the wiser.

We just need to find a way to educate the 'basic' population to be a little less basic. (They'll earn more in the end.)

I don't know if that's what HE is saying, I think he's speaking for the general electorate. But...he can clarify that. 

The Gini coefficient...which tracks income inequality is at it's highest levels since the great depression(not at that level, but on it's way). 

 

I know this is a fools errand, arguing that we need to go back to something CLOSER to a 1950s tax rate to address the debt(well, first the deficit and then the debt...if we eliminated the deficit, we could actually... in theory be fine). 

Meanwhile, the income inequality has gotten BETTER in China. They seem to have at least learned run lesson. You can't JUST have rich oligarch's and then a peasant class. 

 

Another thing I omitted in my last post, get rid of oil/natural gas subsidies. I know this is controversial as it was suggested those "costs" would be passed on to the consumer, but...that's asinine as the US doesn't set oil prices and the different would be marginal at best. Pennies a gallon vs tens of billions. 

[1032004]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I don't know if that's what HE is saying, I think he's speaking for the general electorate. But...he can clarify that. 

Yes, I’m saying how I think most of the country would feel.  Obviously I don’t know for sure, but it’s not exactly a giant leap to say that most people would rather have more money in their pocket than less.

But yeah, it is funny when R’s accuse the D’s of “giving handouts to buy votes,” when that’s pretty much what these tax cuts were/are.

[JimmySpeaks]

The stock market has my money BURNING a hole in my pocket.  Thanks to the orange man 

[Bigbrog]

10 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I'll translate for you:

You don't care about what is better for the country. You just want as much money for yourself as you can obtain.

And if the rich get far richer, while you're getting more money that's OK. As long as you get more money, the rich can enjoy.

This is no accident, this is exactly what the R's have been doing. Send out checks to the basic population, make them happy to get a bump. While the top 10% of the population cash in with checks that are 10,000 times bigger and none of the basic population is the wiser.

We just need to find a way to educate the 'basic' population to be a little less basic. (They'll earn more in the end.)

Why does it matter so much to you how much other people make?  Especially if someone makes more than you?

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Why does it matter so much to you how much other people make?  Especially if someone makes more than you?

Why doesn't it matter more to you that this Country is going bankrupt and the effective corporate tax rate is about 1/4th what the middle class pays?

[Caveira]

24 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Why doesn't it matter more to you that this Country is going bankrupt and the effective corporate tax rate is about 1/4th what the middle class pays?

Why do you change the metric to fit your argument.  
 

in the trump tax bill the wealthy pay 2% and the poor 4% right?  In that situation you use raw dollars…. Saying the tax cuts favor the wealthy even though they are getting a lower aggregate reduction    

in this one.  Where they (corporations) pay waaaaaaaayyyuyuyyyyyyy more dollars …. Corporations…….  You use percentage.  
 

weird.   
 

if the gov had infinity $ today they would waste all of it.  The solution isn’t more taxes it’s more efficient government.    

[JimmySpeaks]

45% ALREADY PAY ZERO FEDERAL INCOME TAX.  

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

45% ALREADY PAY ZERO FEDERAL INCOME TAX.  

EVERYBODY needs to pay more in taxes. 

[red viking]

14 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Why do you change the metric to fit your argument.  
 

in the trump tax bill the wealthy pay 2% and the poor 4% right?  In that situation you use raw dollars…. Saying the tax cuts favor the wealthy even though they are getting a lower aggregate reduction    

in this one.  Where they (corporations) pay waaaaaaaayyyuyuyyyyyyy more dollars …. Corporations…….  You use percentage.  
 

weird.   
 

if the gov had infinity $ today they would waste all of it.  The solution isn’t more taxes it’s more efficient government.    

More "efficient." Wingers have been saying that for decades now. How "efficient" can it possibly get? 

What specific cuts are you willing to make? Let me guess - Planned Parenthood, DEI and USAID. Between that and "cutting the fact," I suppose you think we'll come close to balanciing the budget? 

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, red viking said:

More "efficient." Wingers have been saying that for decades now. How "efficient" can it possibly get? 

What specific cuts are you willing to make? Let me guess - Planned Parenthood, DEI and USAID. Between that and "cutting the fact," I suppose you think we'll come close to balanciing the budget? 

Bla bla bla.  You’re a broken record boss.   

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

The stock market has my money BURNING a hole in my pocket.  Thanks to the orange man 

Jimmy's the type who gets 20 dollars, loses half of it, then gets 7 dollars back and acts like he's ahead of where he started the day...

[JimmySpeaks]

18 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Jimmy's the type who gets 20 dollars, loses half of it, then gets 7 dollars back and acts like he's ahead of where he started the day...

I’m just happy we all avoided the Great Depression you promised on day 1. 

[JimmySpeaks]

54 minutes ago, red viking said:

EVERYBODY needs to pay more in taxes. 

Yep. A flat tax would be perfect. 

[scourge165]

On 6/9/2025 at 7:46 AM, Caveira said:

The top 10% of the wealthy people already pay ~90% of federal taxes.   What % of federal taxes should they pay to be “fair”?

Lets start with the fact that this meme that has been going around for decades is not accurate. They pay about 74% of the taxes. They have about 75% of the wealthy. 

Then you could look at the reference I made to Eisenhower, the last time our debt was this high(110% of the GDP). 

In the 1940s and 1950s, the strongest decade(50s)of economic prospertiy we've s

Or the 9% effective tax rate that corporations paid PRIOR to getting their taxes cut from "35% to 21%." Now it sits at ~6%. 

So I used my big boy words and said very clearly 

On 6/9/2025 at 7:28 AM, scourge165 said:

Now if corporations paid ANYWHERE NEAR 21%...hell, even if they actually paid 15%, this would largely eliminate he problems we have with the deficit. 

Would that not be fair? ACTUALLY making corporations pay 15% when their tax rate is 21% and they're currently paying 6%?

The top 10% is only ~135-140K a year, so...not really who I was addressing, that was just a lazy opportunity for you to pull out the 10% pay 90% line that Republicans have been using for decades. 

The only lazier line than what you and...I'd imagine Jimmy could use is "err...why don't you just give the Government more of your money." 

 

The EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the 1950s was 35-45%... vs 9% and then 6%
GDP grew at ~4% for the decade. 

Wages rose about 3.6% for the top 10%, they rose 3.5% for the bottom 90%

NOW wages are growing at .81% for the poor, .87 for the Middle Class. 

The stock market grew nearly 500% in the 1950s. The STRONGEST decade in HISTORY on the back of RISING Corporate profits despite that super unfair and mean tax rate. 

 

 

To recap, 1950s;

So a MUCH higher effective tax rate( 3 TIMES what I'm suggesting). 
A MUCH stronger middle class.
Wages growing 4-5X the rate for the poor. 
Equities performed better than ever.
The GDP 40% 

Right now
Effective corporate tax rate of 9% in 2017 to 6% now
A dying middle class. 
Wages lagging WELL behind even the ideal rate of inflation. 
Equities are still doing well...or at least they were doing great 3 of the last 4 years. This year they're...doing fine(though, it's only half over). For the decade we're doing fine. 

 

I paid... a significant amount in taxes last year and it sucks. Between my income and selling a property my taxes along would have been in the top 5% of incomes. 

 

 

Make it political all you'd like. It's about preserving the United States of America. We are NOT going to do that by cutting taxes AGAIN and just ignoring the debt. We're going to end up like Greece if we do that. 

[scourge165]

On 6/6/2025 at 9:36 AM, Bigbrog said:

  But I also know it doesn't matter who is in office, it is rinse and repeat every 4 years.

 

And AGAIN, I repeat...every single Democrat President has CUT the deficit since Eisenhower(I didn't look beyond Eisenhower...though I'd suspect Truman didn't coming out of the War and then right into another and if FDR did...he only cut his own). 

Every SINGLE Republican has increased the deficit since Eisenhower.

They're not the same. 

The Democrats haven't been great. The Republicans by all measure have been worse. 

[ionel]

1 hour ago, JimmySpeaks said:

I’m just happy we all avoided the Great Depression you promised on day 1. 

Im not so sure.  On advice from my trusted financial advisor I pulled money out of the market waiting for the dip, tank, plunge, crash, depression so I could reinvest at the bottom.  The rest of my portfolio has gone bonkers.  Now sure it was only ~2% pulled but we are talking serious pizza $s if id left it.  Who is with me in filling a class action lawsuit against this self proclaimed financial wizard?  

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Im not so sure.  On advice from my trusted financial advisor I pulled money out of the market waiting for the dip, tank, plunge, crash, depression so I could reinvest at the bottom.  The rest of my portfolio has gone bonkers.  Now sure it was only ~2% pulled but we are talking serious pizza $s if id left it.  Who is with me in filling a class action lawsuit against this self proclaimed financial wizard?  

All my $$$ is still in cash in a bunker in my parents basement.    I’m taking no chances the lobster Viking guy is right so often there must just be a delay.  

[Caveira]

2 hours ago, red viking said:

EVERYBODY needs to pay more in taxes. 

Even illegal aliens?

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

All my $$$ is still in cash in a bunker in my parents basement.    I’m taking no chances the lobster Viking guy is right so often there must just be a delay.  

Do your parents live on 728 N Pine?  Pretty sure i already raided that bunker. 

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Do your parents live on 728 N Pine?  Pretty sure i already raided that bunker. 

123 Main Street.  Don’t tell anyone.  

[Scouts Honor]

16 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I'll translate for you:

You don't care about what is better for the country. You just want as much money for yourself as you can obtain.

And if the rich get far richer, while you're getting more money that's OK. As long as you get more money, the rich can enjoy.

This is no accident, this is exactly what the R's have been doing. Send out checks to the basic population, make them happy to get a bump. While the top 10% of the population cash in with checks that are 10,000 times bigger and none of the basic population is the wiser.

We just need to find a way to educate the 'basic' population to be a little less basic. (They'll earn more in the end.)

why does the govt need 30% of my money? 

after DOGE they really dont.