When our companies have to pay tariffs to sell their goods to other countries isn't that just a form of extortion?

[Scouts Honor]

they wouldn't be sweatshops here.

btw, isn't phil a democrat? 

why would he be against fair labor prices here, and go to china... 

[red viking]

19 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Trump has said almost everything. 

At some point, almost everything has spilled out of his mouth during his long, senseless diatribes. 

 

Again, best case, after the market is in crash territory(which will be early tomorrow) and people are real pissed, his approval rating back in the low 30s, unemployment rising, then he'll start rolling this back as he gets some token concessions and he'll claim victory. 

I agree. He'll backtrack as soon as somebody gives him some minor concession and say " mission accomplished." He needs a way out because he sees the economy tanking. 

If you don't like what Trump is doing just wait a week because He'll change his mind. Great leader. 

[Offthemat]

25 minutes ago, red viking said:

If you don't like what Trump is doing just wait a week because He'll change his mind. Great leader. 

If so, why have you been complaining so loudly for the last couple of months?

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

There's already been one. The last time someone was stupid enough to try this.

It’s been a long time since I’ve heard anyone claim that tariffs were the cause of the depression.  Most economists today recognize that the Fed probably deserves the most blame, while an untimely tax increase  and the tariffs didn’t help, they were enacted after the depression had already begun.  Here’s a link to your NPR that might help you.  Odd that the Fed seems to be up to their old tricks, again. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/06/nx-s1-5318076/tariffs-great-depression-explainer

Edited yesterday at 03:25 AM by Offthemat

[scourge165]

46 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

If so, why have you been complaining so loudly for the last couple of months?

Do you really not see how this is harmful?

We just started a trade war with all of our allies. 

This is just shockingly stupid...

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, scourge165 said:

Do you really not see how this is harmful?

We just started a trade war with all of our allies. 

This is just shockingly stupid...

No we didn’t.  It’s reciprocal.  Why do you believe it’s okay for other countries to have tariffs on our goods, but catastrophic for us to put equal tariffs on them. 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

we ceded everything to china years ago

starting with companies like nike

Which is why Trump wants it back 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Trump has said almost everything. 

At some point, almost everything has spilled out of his mouth during his long, senseless diatribes. 

 

Again, best case, after the market is in crash territory(which will be early tomorrow) and people are real pissed, his approval rating back in the low 30s, unemployment rising, then he'll start rolling this back as he gets some token concessions and he'll claim victory. 

Early tomorrow. Bahahahahahah 

[scourge165]

35 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve heard anyone claim that tariffs were the cause of the depression.  Most economists today recognize that the Fed probably deserves the most blame, while an untimely tax increase  and the tariffs didn’t help, they were enacted after the depression had already begun.  Here’s a link to your NPR that might help you.  Odd that the Fed seems to be up to their old tricks, again. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/06/nx-s1-5318076/tariffs-great-depression-explainer

 

The part people often get wrong is they ignore that the tariffs were passed BEFORE the market crash. They just weren't implemented until after the crash. But as we've seen the past 3 months, the prospect of tariffs cause a great deal of uncertainty. Earnings season was incredible...and stocks still dropped(by in large) despite beating...over and over. 

GDP was expected to grow at 3.8% vs now -3%(give or take .2-4 either way, but a substantial swing). 

Tariffs and the uncertainty put everything and everyone in limbo. Now that we're not in limbo, it's worse than expected. We're down 1000 points and that's in after hours trading. 

Just again...for the record...and again, you got a stock price in your paper in the morning or at night,  you didn't log on and trade.

But the sequence

-April Tariffs pass congress, unemployment at ~1%, inflation at .6%
-23 Countries Write to Hoover and let them know they will be implementing reciprocal tariffs, the most significant being...Canada and the British(the UK). 
-This starts to erode at Consumer Sentiment(that sound familiar)?
-October the crash
-The following ~Marsh the market had bounced back to nearly 70% of where it was
-Hoover signs Smoot-Hawley...which he'd later call his greatest regret-Unemployment was ~2.5%

-7 months later by the end of 1930, unemployment sits at ~12% and we're hit with reciprocal taxes by the rest of the world...because even then, we were in a global economy. 
 

Hoover got over 1000 letters from Economists pleading with him to not sign Smoot-Hawley into law. He ignored it and then even Reagan cited it as a cause of the great depression. 

JP Morgan CEO said he "almost went down to his knees to beg Herbert Hoover to veto the asinine Hawley–Smoot tariff"

We were not in a great depression until Smoot-Hawley. We were not heading one until Smoot-Hawley. We were in a bubble with companies PEs was about 20, a VERY reasonable valuation. 

 

But lets say it didn't cause it. We came out of the roaring 20s, the concentration of wealth hurt, people were over-leveraged...whatever. 

Did Smoot-Hawley HELP or did it HURT?

Tariffs are objectively harmful to the Economy when they're across the board and PARTICULARLY when they're you're allies. 

Tell me what else is uniting China, South Korea and...Japan(A Country that STILL doesn't really admit to the atrocities they committed in WWII). 

 

Trump ran on this...and over half the people believed him when he said the other Countries pay the tax. So we put tariffs on Semiconductors from Taiwan...people believed that. Why? Because you'd have to be a moron to think it's a good idea to raise taxes on virtually EVERYTHING. 

 

There are plenty of people who believe the tariffs caused the great depression and some who'll mitigate it and say it "contributed to," the Great Depression. Not one economist will argue it was good for the United States. There's a reason we haven't gone back to them. 

 

Why Reagan specifically cited Smoot-Hawley and why it's universally recognized as the worst piece of financial legislation in US History. 

 

I suppose it's like saying what caused WWII? Was it the Treaty of Versailles? Was it The Beer Hall Putsch making Hitler a martyr? 

Was it going into Poland? 

See...personally, I'd say it was the Nazi Party winning and the President appointing him to Chancellor?

Incidentally, that doesn't happen without...Smoot-Hawley pushing the entire Global Economy into a Depression. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

No we didn’t.  It’s reciprocal.  Why do you believe it’s okay for other countries to have tariffs on our goods, but catastrophic for us to put equal tariffs on them. 

Really?

So YOUR belief is that all we did was if China had a 10% tariff on Steel, we just matched that? 

That is all that you believe happened? 

[Tripnsweep]

Glad Trump slapped down tariffs on the Heard and McDonald Islands! Those people have been taking advantage of America for years!

[Offthemat]

6 hours ago, scourge165 said:

The part people often get wrong is they ignore that the tariffs were passed BEFORE the market crash. They just weren't implemented until after the crash. But as we've seen the past 3 months, the prospect of tariffs cause a great deal of uncertainty. Earnings season was incredible...and stocks still dropped(by in large) despite beating...over and over. 

“The 1930 enactment of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act in the United States and the worldwide rise in protectionist trade policies created other complications. The Smoot-Hawley tariff was meant to boost farm incomes by reducing foreign competition in agricultural products. But other countries followed suit, both in retaliation and in an attempt to force a correction of trade imbalances. Scholars now believe that these policies may have reduced trade somewhat but were not a significant cause of the Depression among the large industrial producers. Protectionist policies, however, may have contributed to the extreme decline in the world price of raw materials, which caused severe balance-of-payments problems for primary-commodity-producing countries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America and led to contractionary monetary and fiscal policies.”
 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Great-Depression/Causes-of-the-decline
 

6 hours ago, scourge165 said:

So YOUR belief is that all we did was if China had a 10% tariff on Steel, we just matched that? 

China is a special case and I fully support punitive measures against them.  Though the administration’s numbers show that we’re not hitting them as hard as they hit us, just almost. 

[fishbane]

I hope the 10% reciprocal tarriff Trump put on Heard and McDonald islands puts an end to the extortion we've been experiencing at their hands!

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

“The 1930 enactment of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act in the United States and the worldwide rise in protectionist trade policies created other complications. The Smoot-Hawley tariff was meant to boost farm incomes by reducing foreign competition in agricultural products. But other countries followed suit, both in retaliation and in an attempt to force a correction of trade imbalances. Scholars now believe that these policies may have reduced trade somewhat but were not a significant cause of the Depression among the large industrial producers. Protectionist policies, however, may have contributed to the extreme decline in the world price of raw materials, which caused severe balance-of-payments problems for primary-commodity-producing countries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America and led to contractionary monetary and fiscal policies.”
 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Great-Depression/Causes-of-the-decline
 

China is a special case and I fully support punitive measures against them.  Though the administration’s numbers show that we’re not hitting them as hard as they hit us, just almost. 

You know the administrations numbers are just literally made up, right? ACTUALLY prices. Remember, they also just...estimated" the cost of goods and  and hinderance to business. 

 

Also, you mind telling me what the point of this post is? Are you trying to infer that Smoot-Hawley wasn't passed in 1929 or are you trying to say...'well they really thought it'd work!' Which...yeah, I'm sure they did. 

 

But it takes a special brand of moron to try doing that AGAIN. 

Edited yesterday at 01:38 PM by scourge165

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Glad Trump slapped down tariffs on the Heard and McDonald Islands! Those people have been taking advantage of America for years!

Penguins are the most liberal bird, everybody knows this.

[JimmySpeaks]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

You know the administrations numbers are just literally made up, right? ACTUALLY prices. Remember, they also just...estimated" the cost of goods and  and hinderance to business. 

2.2 - 1.5 =0.7 

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

2.2 - 1.5 =0.7 

See? Even this moron can do simple math. 

 

Again, you can tell the people who are broke or got out of this market as they are totally unbothered. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/us-stocks-dow-nasdaq-sp-plummet-trump-tariffs-rcna199476

[Bigbrog]

When you resort to name calling you have reached the lowest level of metal capacity of debate..reguardles of the endless amount of words you use in your posts

[JimmySpeaks]

32 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

See? Even this moron can do simple math. 

 

Again, you can tell the people who are broke or got out of this market as they are totally unbothered. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/us-stocks-dow-nasdaq-sp-plummet-trump-tariffs-rcna199476

Gosh dang I woke up this morning expecting the Great Depression.  And here I find that the stock market dropped more in 2022.  I’m so relieved we’re still a country 

[red viking]

1 minute ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Gosh dang I woke up this morning expecting the Great Depression.  And here I find that the stock market dropped more in 2022.  I’m so relieved we’re still a country 

Nice strawman

[JimmySpeaks]

35 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

See? Even this moron can do simple math. 

 

Again, you can tell the people who are broke or got out of this market as they are totally unbothered. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/us-stocks-dow-nasdaq-sp-plummet-trump-tariffs-rcna199476

I’m still in the market. Never got out of anything nor did my financial advisor say I should.  We’re focused on buying. 

[JimmySpeaks]

3 minutes ago, red viking said:

Nice strawman

Actually it’s Scourageman 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

Penguins are the most liberal bird, everybody knows this.

They do have everyone convinced they mate for life sooooooo

Edited yesterday at 02:36 PM by JimmySpeaks

[Offthemat]

56 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Also, you mind telling me what the point of this post is?

“Scholars now believe that these policies may have reduced trade somewhat but were not a significant cause of the Depression among the large industrial producers.”
 

And you shouldn’t listen too much to those Wall Street carried interest folks, they’re unholy, and will exploit anything to fleece you.  In about six months or a year, or a couple of weeks, when all this starts paying dividends, we’ll be fine.  We’ve got some in the market, some in gold, and some in cash that’ll be real handy now that it’s time to buy. 

[scourge165]

9 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

“Scholars now believe that these policies may have reduced trade somewhat but were not a significant cause of the Depression among the large industrial producers.”

Is that what "many now believe?"

9 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 

-April Tariffs pass congress, unemployment at ~1%, inflation at .6%
-23 Countries Write to Hoover and let them know they will be implementing reciprocal tariffs, the most significant being...Canada and the British(the UK). 
-This starts to erode at Consumer Sentiment(that sound familiar)?
-October the crash
-The following ~Marsh the market had bounced back to nearly 70% of where it was
-Hoover signs Smoot-Hawley...which he'd later call his greatest regret-Unemployment was ~2.5%

-7 months later by the end of 1930, unemployment sits at ~12% and we're hit with reciprocal taxes by the rest of the world...because even then, we were in a global economy. 

https://fee.org/articles/the-smoot-hawley-tariff-and-the-great-depression/#:~:text=Modern measurements of

 

Quote

And you shouldn’t listen too much to those Wall Street carried interest folks, they’re unholy, and will exploit anything to fleece you.  In about six months or a year, or a couple of weeks, when all this starts paying dividends, we’ll be fine.  We’ve got some in the market, some in gold, and some in cash that’ll be real handy now that it’s time to buy. 

 

No, we should listen to the guy who proved the saying "the house always wins," is...ACTUALLY not true. Not when HE is President...