Hodge Winners By Dominance

[Wrestleknownothing]

Take the exact rankings with a grain of salt. Also consider this a cry for help.

I cannot find TF, or MD stats for 1999 Stephen Neal, 2001 Nick Ackerman, 2004 Emmett Wilson, 2007 Ben Askren, or 2010 Jayson Ness. Their dominance scores are higher than what I have hear, as a result. Any help with filling in the missing pieces would be appreciated.

I also need breakdowns between TF and MD for 1995 TJ Jaworsky, 1998 Mark Ironside, and 2013 Kyle Dake. For these I know how many combined TF/MD they had, but not the split between TF and MD. I just used a 50/50 split.

The net result is that Stephen Neal, and 2007 Ben Askren will be at or near the top if the data can be found.

[jross]

I was looking at this recently for the PSU discussion, and found it difficult to account for only utilizing matches against D1 wrestlers.  You likely already have encountered this discrepancy between some of your scores against formal NCAA scores. 

I'll see if I can find anything for your requests...

[jchapman]

It would be interesting to devise a metric that combines Dominance and Quality of Competition.  

Edited yesterday at 04:47 PM by jchapman

[okokzach]

Would be cool to see Avg Time on Mat as well

[Caveira]

22 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Take the exact rankings with a grain of salt. Also consider this a cry for help.

I cannot find TF, or MD stats for 1999 Stephen Neal, 2001 Nick Ackerman, 2004 Emmett Wilson, 2007 Ben Askren, or 2010 Jayson Ness. Their dominance scores are higher than what I have hear, as a result. Any help with filling in the missing pieces would be appreciated.

I also need breakdowns between TF and MD for 1995 TJ Jaworsky, 1998 Mark Ironside, and 2013 Kyle Dake. For these I know how many combined TF/MD they had, but not the split between TF and MD. I just used a 50/50 split.

The net result is that Stephen Neal, and 2007 Ben Askren will be at or near the top if the data can be found.

Wow I think it’s crazy how freakin dominant Zane train was.   He sure was fun to watch.  

[Dogbone]

I assume a MD with a 2 point TD is the same value as a MD with a 3pt TD?   

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I assume a MD with a 2 point TD is the same value as a MD with a 3pt TD?   

Sadly, yes. Without detailed match by match scores or scoring there really is no way to adjust

[Wrestleknownothing]

38 minutes ago, jchapman said:

It would be interesting to devise a metric that combines Dominance and Quality of Competition.  

It is a real issue. I remember Ben Askren on FRL laughing about how he went to tournaments with lesser competition just so he could fatten up his pinfall stats.

[Dogbone]

26 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Sadly, yes. Without detailed match by match scores or scoring there really is no way to adjust

Makes sense.   I wonder if WIN should consider putting more weight on TFs and Pins over regular MDs.

[Wrestleknownothing]

35 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Would be cool to see Avg Time on Mat as well

Post 2014 that is easy (thank you, WrestleStat). Prior to that it is almost impossible (except for Cael Sanderson).

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Dogbone said:

Makes sense.   I wonder if WIN should consider putting more weight on TFs and Pins over regular MDs.

When I looked at last year's tournament it seemed like TF's and MD's were up and pinfalls were down. I theorized that PFs were down and TFs were up because the TF was happening too fast to allow for the PF. 

[okokzach]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

When I looked at last year's tournament it seemed like TF's and MD's were up and pinfalls were down. I theorized that PFs were down and TFs were up because the TF was happening too fast to allow for the PF. 

Anecdotal but that happened to Wyatt some this year. 

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

When I looked at last year's tournament it seemed like TF's and MD's were up and pinfalls were down. I theorized that PFs were down and TFs were up because the TF was happening too fast to allow for the PF. 

Down with pinfalls!  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

When I looked at last year's tournament it seemed like TF's and MD's were up and pinfalls were down. I theorized that PFs were down and TFs were up because the TF was happening too fast to allow for the PF. 

Definitely a thing that happens

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

It would be interesting to devise a metric that combines Dominance and Quality of Competition.  

Dompetition!

[jross]

2006 Ben Askren

The 174-pounder finished the season 45-0 with an impressive 25 pins. Of the other 20 wins, Askren had nine technical falls, five majors, an injury default and a forfeit, leaving only four bouts in which he failed to score bonus points.

• 45-0
• 25 Pins 
• 9 Technical Falls
• 5 Majors
• Injury Default
• Forfeit
• 4 wins by decision

https://www.win-magazine.com/win-awards/hodge-trophy/ben-askren-2006-2007-hodge-trophy-winner/ 

 

2007 Ben Askren

Reported

• 42-0
  • 29 Pins (23 first period) - 69%

Confirmed

• 34-0
  • 24 Falls by Pin (70%)
  • 2 Technical Falls
  • 4 Major Decisions
• 4 Decisions (12%)

Unaccounted: 6 early (Nov 5-15, 2006); 2 late (Feb 15 - Mar 17, 2007)

• Black & Gold Scrimmage on November 5, 2006 doesn't count
  • Tech Fall vs. teammate Joey Garrity (BLACK), 21-5 (4:09) 
• Missing 6 matches between Nov 5th scrimmage and Nov 16th dual
• Missed February 14, 2007: vs. Old Dominion, recovering from the flu
• Somehow record goes from Missouri formal recording of 32 wins after the February 11, 2007: vs. #3 Iowa State dual to 42 wins after the Big 12s (2 matches) and NCAAs (6 matches)

Matches that count

November 16, 2006: vs. #10 Ohio State, Columbus, Ohio

1. Tech Fall vs. #12 Blake Maurer (OSU), 23-8 — Season: 7-0, Career: 118-8

November 19, 2006: Missouri Open, Columbia, Mo.

2. Fall vs. Jeff James (Oklahoma-UN), 3:21
3. Fall vs. Lloyd Rogers (Tennessee-Chattanooga), 2:40
4. Fall vs. Mike Jackson (Indiana), 2:52 — Season: 10-0, Career: 121-8

December 1-2, 2006: Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational, Las Vegas, Nev.

5. Fall vs. Casey Roberts (Nebraska), 1:35
6. Fall vs. Luke Feist (Stanford), 2:48
7. Fall vs. #24 Jeremy Larson (Oregon State), 2:07
8. Fall vs. #10 Keith Gavin (Pittsburgh), 2:16
9. Fall vs. #4 Matt Herrington (Pennsylvania), 0:46 — Season: 15-0, Career: 126-8

December 9, 2006: vs. #11 Central Michigan, Mount Pleasant, Mich.

10. Fall vs. #6 Brandon Sinnott (Central Michigan), 2:56 — Season: 16-0, Career: 127-8

December 10, 2006: vs. #14 Michigan State, East Lansing, Mich.

11. Fall vs. John Murphy (Michigan State), 1:18 — Season: 17-0, Career: 128-8

December 21, 2006: vs. #24 Pittsburgh, Columbia, Mo.

12. Fall vs. #2 Keith Gavin (Pittsburgh), 2:34 — Season: 18-0, Career: 129-8

December 29-30, 2006: Southern Scuffle, Greensboro, N.C.

13. Fall vs. Steve Ratley (Virginia Tech), 1:26
14. Fall vs. Marcus Boyd (Davidson), 1:00
15. Fall vs. Neal Martin (Appalachian State), 1:48
16. Fall vs. #16 Mike Letts (Maryland), 2:51
17. Fall vs. #9 Matt Stolpinski (Navy), 1:14 — Season: 23-0, Career: 134-8

January 13, 2007: vs. #14 Penn (NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals), Cedar Falls, Iowa

18. Fall vs. #7 Matt Herrington (Penn), 0:39 — Season: 24-0, Career: 135-8

January 13, 2007: vs. #8 Northwestern (NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals), Cedar Falls, Iowa

19. Major Decision vs. #15 Nick Hayes (Northwestern), 14-6 — Season: 25-0, Career: 136-8

January 14, 2007: vs. #4 Oklahoma State (NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals), Cedar Falls, Iowa

20. Fall vs. #16 Brandon Mason (Oklahoma State), 1:16 — Season: 26-0, Career: 137-8

January 14, 2007: vs. #2 Minnesota (NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals), Cedar Falls, Iowa

21. Decision vs. #2 Roger Kisch (Minnesota, at 184 lbs), 5-4 — Season: 27-0, Career: 138-8

January 28, 2007: vs. #20 Nebraska (Big 12), Columbia, Mo.

22. Major Decision vs. Marc Harwood (Nebraska), 20-9 — Season: 28-0, Career: 139-8

February 3, 2007: vs. #4 Oklahoma State (Big 12), Stillwater, Okla.

23. Decision vs. #16 Brandon Mason (Oklahoma State), 9-6 — Season: 29-0, Career: 140-8

February 4, 2007: vs. #13 Oklahoma (Big 12), Norman, Okla.

24. Major Decision vs. Josh Weitzel (Oklahoma), 12-3 — Season: 30-0, Career: 141-8

February 9, 2007: vs. Northern Iowa, Columbia, Mo.

25. Fall vs. Alex Dolly (Northern Iowa), 3:25 — Season: 31-0, Career: 142-8

February 11, 2007: vs. #3 Iowa State (Big 12), Columbia, Mo.

26. Fall vs. Grant Turner (Iowa State), 1:08 — Season: 32-0, Career: 143-8

March 3, 2007: Big 12 Championships, Columbia, Mo.

27. Fall vs. Grant Turner (Iowa State), 1:47
28. Major Decision vs. Brandon Mason (Oklahoma State), 13-4 — Season: 34-0, Career: 145-8

March 15-17, 2007: NCAA Championships, Auburn Hills, Mich.

29. Tech Fall vs. Daniel Burk (Northern Illinois), 19-4 (7:00)
30. Fall vs. Lloyd Rogers (Tennessee-Chattanooga), 2:54
31. Fall vs. Gabriel Dretsch (Minnesota), 4:51
32. Fall vs. Matt Palmer (Columbia), 4:42
33. Decision vs. Eric Luedke (Iowa), 8-3
34. Decision vs. Keith Gavin (Pittsburgh), 8-2 — Season: 42-0, Career: 151-8

Mostly taken from https://mutigers.com/sports/wrestling/schedule/2006-07

 

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https://old.intermatwrestle.com/articles/2661

During Askren's career, he compiled a 153-8 record with 91 pins. That included a 42-0 mark in 2006-07 when the Tiger senior flattened 29 opponents. His 69 percent pinning percentage was even higher than the 55 percent of pins he collected (25 of 45) as a junior.

So who does Askren - who credits his former Arrowhead High School coach John Mesenbrink for his "go for the kill" attitude...

https://www.themat.com/news/2007/may/15/brian-smith--cody-gardner--ben-16673

[jross]

Since we’re on the subject of Askren, I’m basically an NCAA champ by proxy. My junior year in high school, I beat a kid who took down Shawn Silvis back in the day, and Silvis, as a college senior, punked freshman Askren at some open tournament. So, by the glorious transitive law of mat supremacy, me, the 20 dudes who flattened me in high school, and my sister, who laid me out cold before I hit double digits, are all strutting around.

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, jross said:

Since we’re on the subject of Askren, I’m basically an NCAA champ by proxy. My junior year in high school, I beat a kid who took down Shawn Silvis back in the day, and Silvis, as a college senior, punked freshman Askren at some open tournament. So, by the glorious transitive law of mat supremacy, me, the 20 dudes who flattened me in high school, and my sister, who laid me out cold before I hit double digits, are all strutting around.

Hah ... only since you brought it up ... I beat John Smith.  Sure I was in grad school and he an undergrad but still ...

[PortaJohn]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Hah ... only since you brought it up ... I beat John Smith.  Sure I was in grad school and he an undergrad but still ...

Let me guess, it was on April 1st

[ionel]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

Let me guess, it was on April 1st

No it was a real match and really happened, was off season summer time.  Oh ... did I mention it was a golf match ...  sorry.  

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

No it was a real match and really happened, was off season summer time.  Oh ... did I mention it was a golf match ...  sorry.  

Did you square off on a links or parkland mat?

Edited yesterday at 06:52 PM by PortaJohn

[ionel]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

Do you square off on a links or parkland mat?

links - Lakeside ️ 

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

links - Lakeside ️ 

Not too shabby.  I know @Interviewed_at_Weehawken lost once at a riverside links duel course.  He missed the fairway off the 1st tee and never recovered

Edited yesterday at 06:57 PM by PortaJohn

[manatree]

2 hours ago, okokzach said:

Would be cool to see Avg Time on Mat as well

Mark Manning averages about 6:30 per match.

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Not too shabby.  I know @Interviewed_at_Weehawken lost once at a riverside links duel course.  He missed the fairway off the 1st tee and never recovered

... i heard he didnt even take a shot at the fairway.