Sammy Alvarez to Oklahoma State

[flyingcement]

35 minutes ago, DPJ said:

165 Messenbrink 

174 Thompson/Wittlake 

184 Wittlake/Heeg

197 Surber/Heeg

If the pokes somehow land Messenbrink this is the lineup I'd  like to see for the upper weights. 

Maybe Plott over Wittlake but yeah that would be great

[DPJ]

5 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Maybe Plott over Wittlake but yeah that would be great

Yeah i was thinking Plott would redshirt next year

[Gus]

3 minutes ago, DPJ said:

Yeah i was thinking Plott would redshirt next year

Wouldn’t it be more likely for Thompson and Heeg to redshirt and have Plott Wittlake go 174/184 again?

[VakAttack]

Finally, a school that will let him grow into his true body.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, DPJ said:

165 Messenbrink 

174 Thompson/Wittlake 

184 Wittlake/Heeg

197 Surber/Heeg

If the pokes somehow land Messenbrink this is the lineup I'd  like to see for the upper weights. 

or just

174 Wittlake 

184 Haas

[DPJ]

58 minutes ago, Gus said:

Wouldn’t it be more likely for Thompson and Heeg to redshirt and have Plott Wittlake go 174/184 again?

Yeah that's also an option. They'll have to be creative with who wrestles the next few years. Kind of a logjam with Plott, Thompson, Haas, Heeg, Robb and Surber

[Offthemat]

And Stika. 

[ionel]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

And Stika. 

don't forget about the Mower 

[Offthemat]

I didn’t; he made a good show the other day.  
 

i was going to say the same thing to you about Plott when you said:

 

or just

174 Wittlake 

184 Haas

[RYou]

7 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Finally, a school that will let him grow into his true body.

Maybe, but will he then find a spot in the line up?

Alvarez likes to eat for taste, not diet.

[RYou]

12 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

..... , the way Aragona was trashed last year and Alvarez this year, ...

Aragona portaled out to Campbell.  He wrestled a few bouts at 157 (not 141) last season and walked away from wrestling last fall.  When your head is no longer into the sport, you can't blame the coaches.

 

He was high maintenance at Rutgers from day 1, even refused to workout with certain team members.

Edited January 19, 2023 by RYou

[Idaho]

10 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I think the relationship with the coaches have been strained with all the issues with him at 133 the past 2 seasons , but I feel last year was on the coaching staff for even attempting to have him make a weight after he tried and failed the year before , obviously blame falls on Alvarez but Seabass for back to back off seasons said he was going 133 then said screw it and went 141 causing Alvarez to make the cut ,and rumor was Goodale wasn’t going to let anyone challenge Mike van brill at 149 for his last year so Alvarez only option was 133 again or redshirt…I think him leaving was the best for both sides bc Alvarez didn’t seem committed to Rutgers and the coaches really botched some stuff with him the past 2 years and seem to lost his trust , hopefully both find some success apart 

I understand the lineup stuff and the weight cut ... the history certainly plays a part. But he moved up this season and still had issues. My question  and comments were from the coaches perspective ... I am interested to know if he was on a weight plan that he did not follow through with. Is it possible that coaches gave him limits as to how much he could be over at certain points in the week, each practice,  or the day of a match knowing that he had these issues? I am not an insider to that program, but it wouldn't' be a surprise if the was required to come in no more than 2-3 pounds over the day of so it wouldn't be such a hard cut to make it. These types of plans are not uncommon...I have known of several situations where coaches did more weight checking that necessary and plans put into place for guys cutting hard. Coming in 5 over is doable for some wrestlers, especially in the heavier weight classes... but 5 lbs at the lower weights is a little harder on you. I'm not arguing your points on the history of the situation, I am just wondering if there isn't more to the story on the other side. 

[Antitroll2828]

2 hours ago, RYou said:

Aragona portaled out to Campbell.  He wrestled a few bouts at 157 (not 141) last season and walked away from wrestling last fall.  When your head is no longer into the sport, you can't blame the coaches.

 

He was high maintenance at Rutgers from day 1, even refused to workout with certain team members.

Not disagreeing , I meant how quick the fans turn on and talk negatively about athletes , I know Aragona lost his love for the sport,I don’t blame anyone for him leaving ,  I still don’t think 40 yr fans should be trashing the kids 

I’m from NJ and I like Rutgers bc I always root for NJ kids before anything else , I also like goodale , I competed against him in HS , had friends go wrestle for him in college ,then a couple kids I’ve coached went to wrestle for him , I think he’s a great guy and coach.. my point is this Alvarez situation is more than just meets the eye 

[Antitroll2828]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

I understand the lineup stuff and the weight cut ... the history certainly plays a part. But he moved up this season and still had issues. My question  and comments were from the coaches perspective ... I am interested to know if he was on a weight plan that he did not follow through with. Is it possible that coaches gave him limits as to how much he could be over at certain points in the week, each practice,  or the day of a match knowing that he had these issues? I am not an insider to that program, but it wouldn't' be a surprise if the was required to come in no more than 2-3 pounds over the day of so it wouldn't be such a hard cut to make it. These types of plans are not uncommon...I have known of several situations where coaches did more weight checking that necessary and plans put into place for guys cutting hard. Coming in 5 over is doable for some wrestlers, especially in the heavier weight classes... but 5 lbs at the lower weights is a little harder on you. I'm not arguing your points on the history of the situation, I am just wondering if there isn't more to the story on the other side. 

You are spot on , there is definitely more to the story, but everywhere I go, here, other forums , twitter it’s just alot of people speaking negatively of Alvarez and I wanted to give a different perspective. What you are saying about him being required to be closer to weight than other guys is most likely true , but I think that’s also one of the things that may have caused an issue between him and staff .. Like I’ve said Alvarez has plenty of faults of his own but I feel his whole situation has been mishandled the past couple seasons and it’s definitely best for a clean break , I just don’t see the need for rutgers fans to throw shade at 21 yr old bc he’s not happy and not thriving where he’s currently at and feels like he needed a change

[jackwebster]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:42 PM, flyingcement said:

125: Fix

133: Young

141: Alvarez

149: Voinovich

157: Harper/Mastro/Williams

165: Wittlake (???)

174: Plott

184: Heeg

197: Surber

285: Carroll

This line-up is like that certain place in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony when we feel that we are floating above the earth in a starry dome, with the dream of immortality in our hearts; all the stars seem to glimmer around us, and then we wake up in Stillwater -- Nietzsche

Edited January 21, 2023 by jackwebster