UWW testing new criteria: awarding victory to the wrestler who scores the first point

[bnwtwg]

CORSIER-SUR-VEVEY, Switzerland (March 28) -- United World Wrestling Technical Commission has approved the testing of a Greco-Roman rule change at the European Championships next month.

According to the new rule in Greco-Roman, in case a bout ends 1-1, victory will be awarded to the wrestler who scored the first point. This modification will be implemented exclusively in Greco-Roman and will apply only to matches that end in a 1-1 tie.

The change, which is only being tested, was approved after the new UWW Technical Commission reviewed the current regulations. It unanimously acknowledged that the existing rule, which awards victory to the athlete who scores the last point, may unintentionally encourage passivity at the start of the bout.

Following the discussions, the Commission agreed to test the proposed change of awarding victory to the wrestler who scores the first point during the 2025 Senior European Championships in Bratislava, Slovakia to be held from April 7-13.

Additional senior Continental Championships or international tournaments may also be selected for further testing. United World Wrestling will provide updates should additional test events be required.

https://uww.org/article/uww-test-new-greco-rule-2025-european-championships

[bnwtwg]

I think?? I like this. It's very frustrating to see the eye-test superior wrestler holding center and taking shots get put on the clock and in a hole down a point in the first period with a wink and nod "you want to get the criteria point next period." That's obviously not always the case, but happens rather often. I believe this will create action both periods, especially knowing that the first point is now solidified in all ways as the most important point. The aggressor at the beginning will be rewarded, and the person behind in the second will force action rather than wait for their turn to get a clock point. Should create more action and multiple action sequences.

Curious to see how it plays out, and also if it is a good rule for GR and FS or just one discipline.

Edited Monday at 02:40 PM by bnwtwg

[mspart]

Just for 1-1 ties?   Not for 2-2 or 3-3 etc?  Seems kind of funny. 

mspart

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, mspart said:

Just for 1-1 ties?   Not for 2-2 or 3-3 etc?  Seems kind of funny. 

mspart

They are trying to get guys to get after it early, rather than game the shot clock late in a close match.  If technical points are scored, this becomes less of an issue.

My understanding is that it will also be tested at Pan Am.

Edited Monday at 06:04 PM by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[mspart]

How does that not apply to a 2-2 tie or a 3-3 tie.   If they go to this it should be a tie breaker rule rather than just a 1-1 tie breaker rule.   The same gaming the shot clock would apply.  

mspart

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

Just for 1-1 ties?   Not for 2-2 or 3-3 etc?  Seems kind of funny. 

mspart

1-1 ties there was no actual score, just the caution point.  So the way it was before, the loser in the 1-1 match was the person who was being awarded for being the agressor first.  At least this way individuals will be the agressor off the bat, the person down 1-0 in the second can't just get their caution point to seal a victory.   They have to score.  I imagine this will result in a lot less 1-1 bouts. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, mspart said:

How does that not apply to a 2-2 tie or a 3-3 tie.   If they go to this it should be a tie breaker rule rather than just a 1-1 tie breaker rule.   The same gaming the shot clock would apply.  

mspart

Shot clock is less of a thing when technical points have been scored.

I remember Beleniuk's 2021 run.  Did very little in the 1st period and came out and sprinted in the second and got his last point and seemed to be trying to win 1-1 repeatedly.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

1-1 ties there was no actual score, just the caution point.  So the way it was before, the loser in the 1-1 match was the person who was being awarded for being the agressor first.  At least this way individuals will be the agressor off the bat, the person down 1-0 in the second can't just get their caution point to seal a victory.   They have to score.  I imagine this will result in a lot less 1-1 bouts. 

Yes, I think it might be a good tweak.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Overcomplicating things. Replace this weird rule and criteria with SV.

[mspart]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

1-1 ties there was no actual score, just the caution point.  So the way it was before, the loser in the 1-1 match was the person who was being awarded for being the agressor first.  At least this way individuals will be the agressor off the bat, the person down 1-0 in the second can't just get their caution point to seal a victory.   They have to score.  I imagine this will result in a lot less 1-1 bouts. 

Thank you for a  more complete explanation.   No GR expert here.   I get it now. 

mspart

[wrestle87]

Overtime needs to come back.  They can do a series of positions like they did in the past or something, but this tiebreak nonsense is completely arbitrary and stupid.  I have openly hated it in all styles from the beginning, and will until the end of time.  It was created in an era of fear from the governing body of the sport globally, and it needs to go.

Greco rules also blow broadly.  The pushout has completely ruined greco.  It works for freestyle, but it is terrible for Greco.

[The Kid]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Overtime needs to come back.  They can do a series of positions like they did in the past or something, but this tiebreak nonsense is completely arbitrary and stupid.  I have openly hated it in all styles from the beginning, and will until the end of time.  It was created in an era of fear from the governing body of the sport globally, and it needs to go.

Greco rules also blow broadly.  The pushout has completely ruined greco.  It works for freestyle, but it is terrible for Greco.

I'm not sure about the rule, but criteria is the way to go.  There's never a tie. Someone is always winning or losing.  The ridiculous folkstyle OT to rideouts scoring is terrible. 

[Ragu]

8 minutes ago, The Kid said:

I'm not sure about the rule, but criteria is the way to go.  There's never a tie. Someone is always winning or losing.  The ridiculous folkstyle OT to rideouts scoring is terrible. 

I like a nice in between. No criteria, OT on the feet, every style, until someone wins

[Jim L]

Judo has had unlimited OT for about a decade it is not working well. In high level close matches competitors often converse energy and minimize attacks saving everything for the inevitable OT with a single score winning the match.

Too often they also rely on penalties are try to game the system not to score but to try to get a penalty called on their opponent (OT only ends with three penalties which is a DQ). Too many gold medal matches were won on penalties and IMO Judo penalties are easier to call and usually more obvious if when person deserves a penalty. We have all seen in Geco when there is no scoring and both wrestlers equally deserve a stall call the ref randomly picks one.

It is so hard to score in high level Greco. I imagine a large percentage of OT matches would be decided by penalties which would be terrible. Unlimited OT is not the answer.

Not that I have a good answer as the real problem is the number of 1-1 matches that both scores are penalties. Deciding which wrestler go the first penalty and which one deserves to win because of that is not a real solution.

My solution is to add  foot sweeps and trips with no leg grabbing, while we are at it add arm bar submissions as well. We have seen for too many years how hard it is good score in Greco and the result has been a really terrible sport.

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

21 hours ago, Ragu said:

I like a nice in between. No criteria, OT on the feet, every style, until someone wins

This is it, except I'd prefer a SV (first to score wins) over an OT period. 

[wrestle87]

I think they should make it that nobody wins until at least one 4-point score is scored.

[bnwtwg]

16 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

This is it, except I'd prefer a SV (first to score wins) over an OT period. 

Only if they can guarantee reviews will be 25 minutes or less though.
 

I would be curious to know the average number of bricks thrown per match and the average review time. I'm sure either UWW has this, or at least N3xt Sports has been tracking since partnering with UWW. Next logical step is to introduce a better number of mats per venue per day to combat unused mat time spent on reviews.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm all for reforming the review process. Seems like it's a problem across the board in most sports these days. My wife was just complaining the other day that the video reviews are ruining March Madness for her. The last two minutes of games now takes at least 20.

[MadMardigain]

On 4/1/2025 at 12:46 PM, Jim L said:

My solution is to add  foot sweeps and trips with no leg grabbing, while we are at it add arm bar submissions as well. We have seen for too many years how hard it is good score in Greco and the result has been a really terrible sport.

I agree “dirty Greco” (foot sweeps and trips) would be worth considering to create action, but the Olympic issue is that basically turned Greco into a Judo hybrid. And the IOC likes to have distinct differences between the combat sports.  We don’t need a reason to dump one of those sports from the Olympic sports. 

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

I agree “dirty Greco” (foot sweeps and trips) would be worth considering to create action, but the Olympic issue is that basically turned Greco into a Judo hybrid. And the IOC likes to have distinct differences between the combat sports.  We don’t need a reason to dump one of those sports from the Olympic sports. 

Would you dump greco if it meant ten MFS and ten WFS weights?

[GrandOlm]

On 4/1/2025 at 11:46 AM, Jim L said:

 

My solution is to add  foot sweeps and trips with no leg grabbing, while we are at it add arm bar submissions as well. We have seen for too many years how hard it is good score in Greco and the result has been a really terrible sport.

 

That's the same thing as getting rid of Greco. It would be no gi Judo. Completely different sport with completely new skill set.

If Olympic Champions would be novices after rule changes, then there is no continuity. Greco is upper body wrestling with an emphasis on throws and pins. 

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

That's the same thing as getting rid of Greco. It would be no gi Judo. Completely different sport with completely new skill set.

If Olympic Champions would be novices after rule changes, then there is no continuity. Greco is upper body wrestling with an emphasis on throws and pins. 

A radical change to the Greco rules are needed, so if some Olympic champions may lose out of they can't adapt. Judo did a similar thing about 15 years ago when they banned leg grabs, firemans  and blast doubles were go to techniques for some Judo champs and they were suddenly banned. Adding trips and sweeps to Greco is less radical because techniques are not banned but are expanded. I disagree that current Greco champs would be novices because there is no one doing this style at a high level right now. Put a Judo champ against Greco champ in a dirty Greco match and without a gi to grab the Judo guy is lost. 100% of my money is on the wrestler.

[Jim L]

5 hours ago, MadMardigain said:

I agree “dirty Greco” (foot sweeps and trips) would be worth considering to create action, but the Olympic issue is that basically turned Greco into a Judo hybrid. And the IOC likes to have distinct differences between the combat sports.  We don’t need a reason to dump one of those sports from the Olympic sports. 

I agree that IOC would love to dump a combat sport and will not be Judo which is hugely popular in Western Europe, which is what truly matters for a sports inclusion in the Olympics. 

Greco needs major reform. I don't believe that any one can to look at high level Greco now and see that that it is a good product for the athlete or spectators. If greco does not make big changes it will become obsolete. I like the concept of dirty greco. It keeps the heart off the sport and expands it and should have a more scoring.  Gold medals won in  1-1 criteria are not good for anyone. Even a match that is decided by a single gut wrench is not what Greco should be to about. We want to see bodies flying through the air and rule changes (even radical ones) that promote that are good for the sport 

[Scouts Honor]

it's about time. but it sounds like the implementation of this is going to make it fail.

only 1-1 ties... so no one actually scored a takedown or other offensive point.