Poll: Who is Cael’s best PSU wrestler?

[BloodRound]

5 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Suriano?

 

1 minute ago, Ragu said:

Gulibon?

Yeah these are both good options.  Robert Howard is another name that comes to mind for me.

[Le duke]

1 minute ago, BloodRound said:

 

Yeah these are both good options.  Robert Howard is another name that comes to mind for me.

Talented kid whose body couldn't hold up to the demands of the sport. 

[BarSeries]

16 minutes ago, BloodRound said:

Ok, but who is Cael's biggest bust?

Marco Vespa

[Ragu]

To label someone as a bust due to injury doesn’t quite sit right with me. Not their fault. Gulibon was a number 1(?) recruit coming out and managed to “only” AA once 

[Dogbone]

Best gas tank = Alton Brothers

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Just now, Dogbone said:

Best gas tank = Alton Brothers

That was really just Andrew.  Dylan did AA after all.

[Dogbone]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

That was really just Andrew.  Dylan did AA after all.

Could be. I just like thinking of the greatest college match of all time, Andrew Alton v. Eric Grajales and lumping Dylan in with his brother.

[Gus]

54 minutes ago, jross said:

Research...

• Jason Nolf scored the most points across four NCAA tournaments. (98)
• Ed Ruth with most NCAA tournament wins (21)
• Ed Ruth with most wins in a career (136)
• Ed Ruth and David Taylor with most wins in a season (38)
• David Taylor scored the most points in a single NCAA tournament. (30.5)
• David Taylor with the most Gorriaran awards (2)
• David Taylor with the most Outstanding Wrestler awards (2)
• David Taylor with best senior level success (Olympic Champion)
• Zain Retherford had the season with the highest domination score (5.56) 
• Zain Retherford had the highest bonus rate over his career.
• Zain Retherford with the most dominant season awards (3)
• David Taylor and Zain Retherford with the most Hodge awards (2)
• Aaron Brooks and Carter Starocchi with the most titles over four seasons (4)
• Carter Starocchi with the most titles (5)
• Bo Nickal with the most pins in a season (18)
• Bo Nickal with the highest pin percentage in a season  (58% - 18 pins in 31 matches)
• Bo Nickal with the highest pin percentage in a career  (48% - 59 pins in 123 matches)
• Mitchell Mesenbrink with the most technical falls in a season (18)
• Mitchell Mesenbrink with the highest technical fall percentage in a season  (67% - 18 TF in 27 matches)
• Mitchell Mesenbrink with the highest technical fall percentage in a career  (51% - 27 TF in 53 matches)

In 2012, David Taylor was the first Penn State wrestler in 21 years to claim the Most Outstanding Wrestler Award.  Cael and David kicked off the dominant PSU run.

Best College Wrestler:

Zain Retherford takes the title. His 5.56 peak domination score (highest), 3 Most Dominant Awards (most), 3 NCAA titles, 2 Hodge Trophies, and 94-0 finish over three years reflect unmatched consistency and dominance.

David Taylor’s 30.5-point tournament, 2 MOW Awards, and 2 Gorriaran Awards are impressive, but his 2 titles and lower bonus rate place him behind.  One more title and David's legacy puts him into first place for college.

Carter Starocci’s 5 titles and total NCAA points are strong, but his lack of Hodge/MOW awards and lower bonus rate degrade his case.

Nolf’s 98 NCAA points and Ruth’s win totals are notable...

 

Best PSU Wrestler Overall:

David Taylor. His Olympic gold, World titles, and unparalleled senior-level success, paired with a stellar college career (30.5-point NCAA tournament, career points, 2 Hodge Trophies, 2 MOW Awards), make him the clear choice.

Zain Retherford’s college dominance is unmatched, but his senior-level career (1 World title, no Olympic medal) doesn’t compete with Taylor’s.

Aaron Brooks’ Olympic bronze is promising, but he’s early in his senior-level career compared to Taylor's legacy.  

Zain 5.56 dominance score is insane. Dude was such a hammer on top. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

33 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Best gas tank = Alton Brothers

Or Nick Lee

[jross]

55 minutes ago, BloodRound said:

Ok, but who is Cael's biggest bust?

Did Mason Manville make the World Team in Greco before he started attending PSU?

 

[jross]

59 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Taylor's highest single tournament score was 29.5

Taylor had 30.5. 

31 was possible when the NCAA gave a point for a win after a bye.

 

Match-by-Match Breakdown

1. Round 1: Bye
   • Advancement: 1 point (awarded when he wins his next match after the bye).
   • Bonus: 0 points.
   • Total: 1 point (deferred to Round 2 win).
2. Round 2 vs. Corey Lear (Bucknell):
   • Result: Pin at 1:40.
   • Advancement: 1 point (win) + 1 point (bye advancement from Round 1 credited here).
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 4 points.
3. Round 3 vs. Brandon Wright (Chattanooga):
   • Result: Pin at 1:52.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
4. Quarterfinals vs. Robert Kokesh (Nebraska):
   • Result: Pin at 0:30.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
5. Semifinals vs. Bekzod Abdurakhmonov (Clarion):
   • Result: Pin at 4:44.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
6. Finals vs. Brandon Hatchett (Lehigh):
   • Result: Technical fall, 22-7 at 5:56.
   • Advancement: 0 points (finals covered by placement).
   • Placement: 16 points (1st place).
   • Bonus: 1.5 points (technical fall).
   • Total: 17.5 points.

Total Points Calculation

• Advancement Points:
  • 1 (bye + Round 2 win) + 1 (Round 2 win) + 1 (Round 3) + 1 (Quarterfinals) + 1 (Semifinals) = 5 points.
• Placement Points: 16 points (1st place).
• Bonus Points:
  • 2 (Round 2 fall) + 2 (Round 3 fall) + 2 (Quarterfinals fall) + 2 (Semifinals fall) + 1.5 (Finals TF-1.5) = 9.5 points.
• Grand Total: 5 + 16 + 9.5 = 30.5 points.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Taylor's highest single tournament score was 29.5

 

 

5 minutes ago, jross said:

Taylor had 30.5. 

31 was possible when the NCAA gave a point for a win after a bye.

 

 

Match-by-Match Breakdown

1. Round 1: Bye
   • Advancement: 1 point (awarded when he wins his next match after the bye).
   • Bonus: 0 points.
   • Total: 1 point (deferred to Round 2 win).
2. Round 2 vs. Corey Lear (Bucknell):
   • Result: Pin at 1:40.
   • Advancement: 1 point (win) + 1 point (bye advancement from Round 1 credited here).
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 4 points.
3. Round 3 vs. Brandon Wright (Chattanooga):
   • Result: Pin at 1:52.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
4. Quarterfinals vs. Robert Kokesh (Nebraska):
   • Result: Pin at 0:30.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
5. Semifinals vs. Bekzod Abdurakhmonov (Clarion):
   • Result: Pin at 4:44.
   • Advancement: 1 point.
   • Bonus: 2 points (fall).
   • Total: 3 points.
6. Finals vs. Brandon Hatchett (Lehigh):
   • Result: Technical fall, 22-7 at 5:56.
   • Advancement: 0 points (finals covered by placement).
   • Placement: 16 points (1st place).
   • Bonus: 1.5 points (technical fall).
   • Total: 17.5 points.

Total Points Calculation

• Advancement Points:
  • 1 (bye + Round 2 win) + 1 (Round 2 win) + 1 (Round 3) + 1 (Quarterfinals) + 1 (Semifinals) = 5 points.
• Placement Points: 16 points (1st place).
• Bonus Points:
  • 2 (Round 2 fall) + 2 (Round 3 fall) + 2 (Quarterfinals fall) + 2 (Semifinals fall) + 1.5 (Finals TF-1.5) = 9.5 points.
• Grand Total: 5 + 16 + 9.5 = 30.5 points.

Odd no pinfalls.  I'd thought DT was a pinfallery machine.   

[jross]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

A couple of minor edits:

Taylor scored 99 to Nolf's 98

@cowcards - Will you update https://wrestling.guru/college-men/ncaa-d1/ncaa-d1-database/?

@Wrestleknownothing - What points do you have for David Taylor in 2011?  Was it 18.5?  That would give Taylor *100, which is indeed higher than Nolf. *30.5 rather than 29.5 in 2012.

[Konquest]

Strictly in terms of guys he coached in college, I'm going with Brooks.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 minutes ago, jross said:

@cowcards - Will you update https://wrestling.guru/college-men/ncaa-d1/ncaa-d1-database/?

@Wrestleknownothing - What points do you have for David Taylor in 2011?  Was it 18.5?  That would give Taylor *100, which is indeed higher than Nolf. *30.5 rather than 29.5 in 2012.

I have all my stuff adjusted to today's scoring rules. That is also why we differed on 30.5 vs 29.5.

[jross]

15 minutes ago, ionel said:

Odd no pinfalls.  I'd thought DT was a pinfallery machine.   

A real champ uses 'State' rather than 'States.' They use 'Pin' in casual conversation while using 'Fall' to document formal results.  'Pinfall' is for the self-righteous zealots sipping Michelob Ultra from wine glasses.

Contrarians are holding the wine glass... pinkies up...

Edited Monday at 04:26 PM by jross

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, jross said:

A real champ uses 'State' rather than 'States.' They use 'Pin' in casual conversation while using 'Fall' to document formal results.  'Pinfall' is for the self-righteous zealots sipping Michelob Ultra from wine glasses.

Contrarians are holding the wine glass... pinkies up...

^^^ this ^^^ ... but i do feel sad for Wkn.   

Edited Monday at 04:33 PM by ionel

[Boring]

2 hours ago, peanut said:

Right. But if an athlete wins a world/Olympic medal within months of an NCAA season, I think that’s relevant. Brooks won an Olympic bronze immediately after his final NCAA season. I don’t think any of the others did that (if my memory is right) — of course Starocci and MM may pursue a world team this year. 

I picked Brooks, but not because of his silver at the Olympics. I picked him because I think he's the best wrestler Cael's had in college. I see your point though. 

[cowcards]

1 hour ago, jross said:

@cowcards - Will you update https://wrestling.guru/college-men/ncaa-d1/ncaa-d1-database/?

@Wrestleknownothing - What points do you have for David Taylor in 2011?  Was it 18.5?  That would give Taylor *100, which is indeed higher than Nolf. *30.5 rather than 29.5 in 2012.

Yep. Hoping to get it updated this week. Been working on the backend. 

One of the things I am hoping to do this year is calculate each wrestler's team points for each "era" of rules and help compare the differences and wrestlers from each era. It'd be cool to know how many point Taylor would score if he was wrestling in 1929, 1970, 1985, etc...

[jross]

Just now, cowcards said:

Yep. Hoping to get it updated this week. Been working on the backend. 

One of the things I am hoping to do this year is calculate each wrestler's team points for each "era" of rules and help compare the differences and wrestlers from each era. It'd be cool to know how many point Taylor would score if he was wrestling in 1929, 1970, 1985, etc...

That's cool, and... a lot of work.

How will you handle the smaller bracket sizes of the past?  Just take the later rounds of the recent era to shrink it down?

[Eagle26]

I don’t understand how Taylor is winning this poll. The OP asked about best PSU wrestler so you have to assume that means while they were in college. Not taking anything away from him but DT is getting credit for things that he accomplished 5-10 years after he graduated lol. He was amazing in college too, but when the ultimate goal is NCAA championships, how can you put 2 titles above all those guys with 3 or more?

[Konquest]

37 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t understand how Taylor is winning this poll. The OP asked about best PSU wrestler so you have to assume that means while they were in college. Not taking anything away from him but DT is getting credit for things that he accomplished 5-10 years after he graduated lol. He was amazing in college too, but when the ultimate goal is NCAA championships, how can you put 2 titles above all those guys with 3 or more?

I don't get it either.  DT beat Brandon Hatchett and Tyler Caldwell in his NCAA finals the years he won.  Brooks beat Trent Hidlay 2x, Parker Keckeisen, and Myles Amine in his championship matches.  C'mon, people.

[WrestlingRasta]

Best and greatest in my opinion are two different things, and this comes into play discussing Taylor.   Can't say he was the greatest by any stretch because of the number of three timers, and the 4/5 timers that had additional chances.  But none of them had Dake.   Taylor is easily a 3xer if not for the only 4 for 4 weights in history.  This is where I say there can be an argument for best.

To put it another way, I'm a Cowboys fan, and Emmit Smith is the greatest running back of all time.  But as far as best, he is no higher than fourth. 

[PortaJohn]

7 minutes ago, Konquest said:

I don't get it either.  DT beat Brandon Hatchett and Tyler Caldwell in his NCAA finals the years he won.  Brooks beat Trent Hidlay 2x, Parker Keckeisen, and Myles Amine in his championship matches.  C'mon, people.

I picked Aaron Brooks also but DT should get props for Tyler Caldwell.  I'd put Caldwell on par with beating Trent Hidlay...Kid was a stud

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Emmit Smith is the greatest running back of all time.

That's blasphemous