most historical significance of tonight

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, Boring said:

They are right, though, when you think about it. If you were a layman and you looked at the statistics of both wrestlers you'd see a guy with an 18-0 record, ranked #1, taking on a guy with a 25-0 record, ranked #2. Both were the top 2 seeds.  So one undefeated guy beat another undefeated guy? Anyhow, that's how they see it. They don't see the difference between #1 in the world, and #1 in the USA. 

The fans in this wrestling forum, however, know that FS and folkstyle are literally different sports. Gable may very well be the #1 HWT FS wrestler in the world and still not be the best folkstyle wrestler in the USA. 

For the record I do recognize how big an upset the match was.  I think if Gable and Wyatt wrestled 10 times that Gable would win 9, and probably win several by bonus points. He may have "only" won 2 NCAA titles, but think he's still top 10 all time for D1 college wrestling. 101-3 and career bonus 76.5%.  I can't believe I'm seeing guys talking about him in here like he's some sort of opportunist putz.  Make hay while the sun shines. 

Here's something to think about: Anthony Cassar, the last guy to beat Gable before tonight, was a Jr who was 3-0 in 2020 when he had to take an injury RS. Doesn't that technically mean he has another 2 years eligibility? 

This ignores that one guy tech falled the other guy when they last wrestled.  This wasn't all some theoretical thing based on freestyle/folkstyle comparisons.  This was a giant upset for actual reasons.

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

yes endorsed by gable

You mean 5 years ago when he was tricked into coming into the Oval Office with his entire family to receive a medal, and then was almost instantly ditched after he didn't "endorse" the politician to his satisfaction?

That endorsement?

[Boring]

4 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

You mean 5 years ago when he was tricked into coming into the Oval Office with his entire family to receive a medal, and then was almost instantly ditched after he didn't "endorse" the politician to his satisfaction?

That endorsement?

I don't remember Gable ever disavowing anything related to that. 

[RockLobster]

6 minutes ago, Boring said:

I don't remember Gable ever disavowing anything related to that. 

Are we equating "endorsing" with "not disavowing" now?

[Boring]

2 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Are we equating "endorsing" with "not disavowing" now?

I am, lol. 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, dragit said:

Obviously the stories of the night are the 5x champ and the commissioned officer with the biggest upset in half a century in front of the Commander in Chief.  But in terms of overall historical significance in the big picture, David Taylor's first season might end up having the biggest impact on the sport. 

He came in to a train wreck and brought them up to a solid third.  He took a guy who was 6-6-blood round and beat two champs to take first place.  He took another guy who hadn't been in the finals who also beat two champs to take first, in that gigantic upset.

It's just one year and they are only in third place now, but it's definitely possible to picture OSU under Taylor being the next great power at a level competing with Penn State (which I don't see Nebraska or the current regime at Iowa doing).  

I get what you're saying, but I remember 2010 for...Max Askren finally breaking through and winning a title or Metcalf getting his first(maybe 2nd, it's been a while).

 

Oh and then there was some Freshmen who had a good tournament at 141 and...not sure what became of him...but I recall that year for THOSE events more so than the Cael debut at PSU!

[Yellow_Medal]

Good God! What an exaggeration. Gable is certainly NOT the #1 HWT FS wrestler in the world. He probably wasn't that in the year that he won the Olympics. He had a good day. Geno Petriashvili choked bigly, and Gable did not face Iran. And if you disagree, that's great. Keep in mind that that gold medal was in the 2020 Olympics, which I believe took place in 2021. Since 2021, Gable Steveson has NOT competed in senior men's freestyle. How can you say he's the #1 HWT FS wrestler?
Memories, pressed across the pages of my mind
Memories, sweetened through the ages just like wine
Your memories of Gable as Olympic Champ do NOT make him #1. Other heavies have been developing. Do you think Gable made a lot of progress in his freestyle wrestling since 2021?
 

Man, you make a lot of sense at 12:40 AM, but I’m giving you a like just for the Elvis quote

[dragit]

Just now, scourge165 said:

I get what you're saying, but I remember 2010 for...Max Askren finally breaking through and winning a title or Metcalf getting his first(maybe 2nd, it's been a while).

 

Oh and then there was some Freshmen who had a good tournament at 141 and...not sure what became of him...but I recall that year for THOSE events more so than the Cael debut at PSU!

I agree that you'll remember tonight more for Starocci and Lt. H.  For sure.  And you should.  But I think that Coach Taylor will have a bigger impact on the sport in the coming decades, and tonight was when we saw that he does in fact have what it takes as a coach to jump past everyone else and produce the most viable threat to Penn State since wrestling was invented in 2011.

Think it was Metcalf's second in 2010 after he got upset in 2009.

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, WrestleFan12 said:

Alright, I'll give you that.

I won't. Who do you think watched the NCAAs to get a glimpse of Trump? You can see him ALL the time. He is the President.

I mean, of all the Wrestling fans and big matchups, you really think there was a substantial difference because we saw 3 seconds of him waiving?

I think THAT would be TDS. Thinking there was some big jump just to catch the sight of him on TV? 

 

I DO think a guy like Hendrickson doing THAT in front of the President...it adds something to it. I can't say I'm a fan, but I am a fan of the office and I liked the Flag. Seemed more fitting of the Olympics OR...say a guy from Air Force who is committing years to his Country... 

But mostly, I think Trump's presence was irrelevant in the interest about the event...incredible wrestling and what a great weekend it was. Do you think more people watched the SB to see him for a minute? He's not Taylor Swift(which...can't say I really get the allure their either).

I'm a little...disappointed we just had the weekend we all wait for(on the College side) and it feels like there's a lot of negativity and complaining in other threads or bickering.

[scourge165]

38 minutes ago, dragit said:

I agree that you'll remember tonight more for Starocci and Lt. H.  For sure.  And you should.  But I think that Coach Taylor will have a bigger impact on the sport in the coming decades, and tonight was when we saw that he does in fact have what it takes as a coach to jump past everyone else and produce the most viable threat to Penn State since wrestling was invented in 2011.

Think it was Metcalf's second in 2010 after he got upset in 2009.

Ok...so not so much that DTs first tournament was the most memorable, but the most impactful?

 

Well...in that respect, that's the most impactful thing that's happened to Wrestling in the last few years. I'd also say Ono enrolling at PSU is going to be WAY up there. Still waiting for clarification on that one, but if he's actually Wrestling at PSU...he's a 4X Champ at '33, right?

You lose Bartlett, Starocci and Kerk, you bring in Blaze, Ono, Ryder, Duke and Mirasola(s)...though I wonder if PSU hits up the portal for a HWT transfer. 

 

BUT...with Forrest and Ross(who I think is an absolute beast) coming the following year and seeing how DT can elevate his Wrestlers, I think given 2-3 years to recruit and he could be competitive with PSU.

When Cael went to PSU, I thought they'd...be what they are(not this good, but dominant). DT is similar, but you're not in the most talent rich state.

 

So I agree, the thing that will have the longest lasting impact is DT. 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

 How can you say he's the #1 HWT FS wrestler?

 

 

Well, I can't in many languages, but I have become pretty adept at English...so I guess I'd just say..."Gable Stevenson is the #1 HWT FS wrestler." 

Now if you want it in Mandarin or Russian, I would NOT be able to say that, but in English?

 

By the way, have you heard what's going on with Ono? I remember someone telling me it was "mass Folkstyle delusion." Maybe that's new to the DSM-5, but...I don't know, they must have been an expert. In any event...Ono, now enrolled at PSU. Wonder if it's just coincidence that he's...enrolled at the school of his idol with the best RTC in the USA?

 

Hey, maybe he just watches Soc 119 and REALLY wanted to be there in person?

[Rassling2]

5 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Dan

Of course we knew which Dan. Another true American real Americans can get behind and honor forever.

[Rassling2]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I won't. Who do you think watched the NCAAs to get a glimpse of Trump? You can see him ALL the time. He is the President.

I mean, of all the Wrestling fans and big matchups, you really think there was a substantial difference because we saw 3 seconds of him waiving?

I think THAT would be TDS. Thinking there was some big jump just to catch the sight of him on TV? 

 

I DO think a guy like Hendrickson doing THAT in front of the President...it adds something to it. I can't say I'm a fan, but I am a fan of the office and I liked the Flag. Seemed more fitting of the Olympics OR...say a guy from Air Force who is committing years to his Country... 

But mostly, I think Trump's presence was irrelevant in the interest about the event...incredible wrestling and what a great weekend it was. Do you think more people watched the SB to see him for a minute? He's not Taylor Swift(which...can't say I really get the allure their either).

I'm a little...disappointed we just had the weekend we all wait for(on the College side) and it feels like there's a lot of negativity and complaining in other threads or bickering.

Is this the same scourge, or a different one?

[JimmyCinnabon]

6 hours ago, dragit said:

Yeah agree that is wrong even though I don't think it's the biggest ever.  I probably would put Gable Dan's loss below Dan Gable's loss as number two in terms of surprising.  Hendrickson is a very bad man with a very nasty record, a more fearsome opponent than Owings.  And he's huge.  But it's still stunning.

Made me think of a few other matches.  Reminded me a little of Snyder and Gwiz.  As the match went on, you could see that he was figuring out how to deal with the other guy's advantages, and he was close enough that if he could hit the big takedown and do it late enough for the rideout that he had a chance (Snyder's rideout got him to OT, not the win, but that's all he needed because Gwiz was gassed).

Also made me think of Gable and Cassar.  Shorten the match, get it to the end, Gable might have a brain cramp, which is a little bit what happened tonight, I thought, it looked to me like Gable could have gotten out of the attack if he went pure defense, but thought about trying to turn it into his own takedown which he didn't need, and that split second let Hendrickson pull him in far enough to be able to eventually get control.  

Not perfect analogies but I think relevant.

I don’t think Gable knows how to win close matches. I think it’s a mental deficiency. I know he did it in the Olympic finals but when he doesn’t dominate he just turtles. Everyone always felt like he could have beaten Cassar if he had opened up but he didn’t. It seemed to be the same last night. He has historically in his life just never really been tested and so he doesn’t have that experience of having to really fight for a win. After Wyatt scrambled out of that first shot of Gable I thought the match might go like the Cassar matches. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...so not so much that DTs first tournament was the most memorable, but the most impactful?

 

Well...in that respect, that's the most impactful thing that's happened to Wrestling in the last few years. I'd also say Ono enrolling at PSU is going to be WAY up there. Still waiting for clarification on that one, but if he's actually Wrestling at PSU...he's a 4X Champ at '33, right?

You lose Bartlett, Starocci and Kerk, you bring in Blaze, Ono, Ryder, Duke and Mirasola(s)...though I wonder if PSU hits up the portal for a HWT transfer. 

 

BUT...with Forrest and Ross(who I think is an absolute beast) coming the following year and seeing how DT can elevate his Wrestlers, I think given 2-3 years to recruit and he could be competitive with PSU.

When Cael went to PSU, I thought they'd...be what they are(not this good, but dominant). DT is similar, but you're not in the most talent rich state.

 

So I agree, the thing that will have the longest lasting impact is DT. 

I am pretty sure Ono only has two years of eligibility. Don’t quote me though. 

[scourge165]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

I am pretty sure Ono only has two years of eligibility. Don’t quote me though. 

I'm just curious, but why would that be?

Did he enter a university in Japan and that starts his clock?

[MidniteToka]

6 hours ago, BaldAt23 said:

I said that it makes wrestling look like a conservative leaning sport. You said why. I answered why. 

I'm still amazed that it was necessary to explain that to someone.   I guess some people are surprised every morning when the sun comes up. 

[Eagle26]

5 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

He should have said "is certainly NOT"

He beat Geno, Geno just won the Olympics. There is definitely reason to believe he is the best freestyle wrestler in the world right now. Whether or not he would prove that, we don’t know. But to say he “is certainly NOT”, would be a terrible take.

[1032004]

6 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

Good God! What an exaggeration. Gable is certainly NOT the #1 HWT FS wrestler in the world. He probably wasn't that in the year that he won the Olympics. He had a good day. Geno Petriashvili choked bigly, and Gable did not face Iran. And if you disagree, that's great. Keep in mind that that gold medal was in the 2020 Olympics, which I believe took place in 2021. Since 2021, Gable Steveson has NOT competed in senior men's freestyle. How can you say he's the #1 HWT FS wrestler?

Memories, pressed across the pages of my mind

Memories, sweetened through the ages just like wine

Your memories of Gable as Olympic Champ do NOT make him #1. Other heavies have been developing. Do you think Gable made a lot of progress in his freestyle wrestling since 2021?

 

He won WTT/Final X in 2023.   It’s fair to wonder how we would have done against the rest of the world, but less than 2 years ago he was still the best in the US.

[Rassling2]

I’d love to see this years winners brought to the White House. Imagine the impact that would have for the sport!

 

[paboom]

7 hours ago, BaldAt23 said:

Definitely gives the impression that wrestling is a conservative leaning sport

Duh!

[Holtfan]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I think THAT would be TDS. Thinking there was some big jump just to catch the sight of him on TV? 

Hey, it happened in the NFL......with the same initials no less.  NFL added millions of Taylor Damn Swift viewers by just showing her a few times during the broadcast.  

[JimmyCinnabon]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I'm just curious, but why would that be?

Did he enter a university in Japan and that starts his clock?

I am not entirely sure. I’ve read it repeated a number of places by guys who claimed to be in the know who were stating that he was going to enroll at PSU weeks before he did. I am assuming that since they had the inside info on him enrolling that they know what his eligibility is. I could be wrong. Or rather they could be wrong. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

I think it was significant and a positive for the sport that Trump attended the finals. I also think that PSU's record points total was overshadowed by a number of things, and that is healthy for the sport. 

Nebraska fans have to be ecstatic about their overall outperformance, securing second, getting three to the finals, and winning twice.

Oklahoma State fans also have to be ecstatic about an upswing to third, three in the finals, two winners, and one of the two most epic upsets in NCAA wrestling history.

Iowa fans may be slightly disappointed with fourth place, but three in the finals (extending their decades long streak), with one champ who did it by beating a PSU wrestler is reason for celebration.

NC State gets a champ with two more years of eligibility.

Illinois wins a title in the year of @ILLINIWrestlingBlog

[Pinnacle]

100% certain that Taylor will bring Okie State back up. How far is anyone's guess, especially with how special Penn State has been under the legend Cael Sanderson. However, just nitpick, almost half their points came from two portal guys. I give him a little cred also for Plott getting 15 points (he scored more last year though) and Spratley getting 17.5 points for 2nd place. 

Their other 6 weights added up to 21.5 points. They won't match PSU anytime soon with that.