Should wrestling from your knees be stalling?

[alex1fly]

At lower levels, you just bull rush the guy down on his knees and knock him over. Or shove his head down and go around. Not sure what's done at D1 level. If it's legal AND there's no counter for it, more wrestlers would do it right?

[swoopdown]

4 hours ago, Preceptor said:

The TD in OT maybe but the TD in the second period was in part created because he dropped to a knee.  Should we make wrist controls stalling in neutral since I am using them to limit your offense?

The second period TD was NOT initiated from 3PS (three point stalling) position. The critical error (Plott standing too high and leaning too much after he accepted the tie up and AF pushed Plotts left shoulder) was in the standing position and could have been avoided in the standing position.   Are they standing when the error is made (picture below) or not?  Your wrist control statement is silly and does not warrant a response.   

If Plott is not capable of maintaining sound balance and a good stance after accepting a tie up from AF's 3PS position, he'd be better off not accepting a tie up at all.  Just dance around and push AF's head.  Or break the tie up as soon as they stand.  Win with mat wrestling.  Boring but good strategy.  Would another be moving to a russian tie on AF's left arm as soon as they stand?  maybe.  AF has a wicked low single and Plott needs to find a way to anticipate and hinder it.

[swoopdown]

5 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Yea there was, at least after the first period.  Regardless, IMO in general it is the lack of action that is stalling, not the fact of being on a knee

Time reference? 

Only effective shots I see are from standing.  The SV TD was Plott taking ground (bad strategy) while AF retreats and waits for Plott to walk into him.  AF stands for the shot though.

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, pmilk said:

A guy dropping to one knee is stalling or unmanageable? Come on, really? We end up on our knees all the time in wrestling. Weren't you all taught techniques from the feet and knees that allowed you to score by going over, under, or around your opponent? Wrestling an opponent who drops to his knee isn't much different than an opp on his feet...he's just shorter. If you have been trained appropriately, wrestling from the knees is an excellent scoring opportunity. With slight modifications, work into your tie-ups just like you would from on your feet: Snapdowns, sidesnaps, shrugs/shucks,  underhook headwhips, short arm drags, elbow throws, knee trips, etc., are all options..if you know how to set them up and execute...if you don't, then I guess your next best recourse is to claim stalling or something like that. Kinda like when the top man catches an ankle...claim he's stalling if you don't know how to 1)prevent or 2)employ and effective counter and then create a rule that eliminates the down man's responsibility to effectively free himself. Part of any wrestler's game plan should incorporate tactics that make it look like your opponent is stalling. That can be done from feet or on top...harder to do on bottom tho. 

Nolf and Kasak have taught strategies in their camps/clinics for taking down opponents who wrestle from a knee (but I guess they didn't teach it to Starocci). Circling, drag variations, downblock & blast counterattacks, etc. 

I say work the optics and get the ref on your side with a simple gesture:

 

Edited 5 hours ago by CHROMEBIRD

[Fadzaev2]

I you go to a knee, it pretty much eliminates a leg attack against you.....now the best option is limited to a short offense...snapdowns/go behind, and lot's of guys aren't that good at it.  In addition, you need to get lower and ready to down block his shots because he's already changed levels.

 

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, swoopdown said:

Time reference? 

Only effective shots I see are from standing.  The SV TD was Plott taking ground (bad strategy) while AF retreats and waits for Plott to walk into him.  AF stands for the shot though.

I thought the takedown in SV looked like Plott was moving forward anticipating and trying to time Angelo's attack.  Just how I remembered it but I might have to rewatch it.  Ferrari was quick on that sweep single and I don't remember him in that sequence being on a knee

Edited 4 hours ago by PortaJohn

[1032004]

2 hours ago, swoopdown said:

Time reference? 

Only effective shots I see are from standing.  The SV TD was Plott taking ground (bad strategy) while AF retreats and waits for Plott to walk into him.  AF stands for the shot though.

Ok he didn’t shoot “from” the knee, but the second period TD shot came about 1.5 seconds after coming up from the knee.

2 hours ago, swoopdown said:

The second period TD was NOT initiated from 3PS (three point stalling) position. The critical error (Plott standing too high and leaning too much after he accepted the tie up and AF pushed Plotts left shoulder) was in the standing position and could have been avoided in the standing position.   Are they standing when the error is made (picture below) or not?  Your wrist control statement is silly and does not warrant a response.   

If Plott is not capable of maintaining sound balance and a good stance after accepting a tie up from AF's 3PS position, he'd be better off not accepting a tie up at all.  Just dance around and push AF's head.  Or break the tie up as soon as they stand.  Win with mat wrestling.  Boring but good strategy.  Would another be moving to a russian tie on AF's left arm as soon as they stand?  maybe.  AF has a wicked low single and Plott needs to find a way to anticipate and hinder it.

Plott definitely seemed to be leaning prior to the SV TD, but I did not think he was leaning during the second period TD.  Angelo was just too quick for him.  Interestingly I believe both his TD’s were from outside singles to Plott’s trail leg, which many coaches would probably advise against.

Overall I don’t really see much difference between a guy in a stance and a guy on a knee. There are certainly ways one could try to attack someone on a knee; or at least maybe try to time your shot for right as he’s coming up.  Ferrari also tended to leave the leg that was up kinda far in front, so I think an outside single to that leg could be an option.

But stalling should be based on the action or lack thereof and Ferrari was far more active overall.