Big Board Big Boys UPDATED

[Wrestleknownothing]

I have spent some time cleaning up the Big Board data @Husker_Du so kindly shared. Who knew Shakur Rasheed was Corey Rasheed in high school? I am sure some of you did, but I didn't. I also updated the results to include the 2023 class and the 2024 results.

Last time around I pulled data from Flo, but this time it is just the Real Big Board data from Willie. So there will be some differences based on that.

For this round I am focusing on the Top 10 recruits. Like Jesse James with banks, that is where the money is.

• The Top 10 only produced 39% of the AAs in the sample, but they produced 77% of the Champions. So, it seemed like they should be their own category.
• The next 10 (11 - 20) produced 18% of the AAs and 16% of the champions. That seemed like their own bucket too.
• The next 20 (21 - 40) produced 19% of the AAs and that gets us to 76% and that is enough.

As suspected, Penn State and Ohio State dominate the Top 10 recruits with 18 each. If you were to rank the recruiting classes without knowing what the results would be for the whole 11 years, it would probably look like this. 

• A tie between Ohio State and Penn State with Oklahoma State a little way back, and Iowa/Michigan a long way back.

If you re-rank those classes based on results, I think it would look like this.

Penn State runs away with it.

• While Penn State and Ohio State each had 18 Top 10 recruits in 11 years, the Penn State recruits produced a whopping 33 trips to the finals and 25 total individual titles. Bo Nickal was right. That's what they do.
• Oklahoma State drops from #3 to #7 once you see the results. While their 12 Top 10 recruits produced 16 AA's, they only had 1 title out of 6 finalists. 
• Iowa also slips a spot from #4 to #5 as their 7 recruits produced 6 trips to the finals with 3 titles.
• Michigan drops from #5 to #10 having gotten only 9 AAs and 1 title from their 7 Top 10 recruits.
• Meanwhile Missouri and Cornell did more with less. Missouri moves up from #12 to #4 once you factor in their 5 titles from 5 trips to the finals with only 3 Top 10 recruits.
• Cornell jumps from #7 to #3 on the strength of their 6 titles from 6 finals with 5 top 10 recruits.
• Arizona State hangs in there at #6 in both the before and after rankings.

[BruceyB]

17 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have spent some time cleaning up the Big Board data @Husker_Du so kindly shared. Who knew Shakur Rasheed was Corey Rasheed in high school? I am sure some of you did, but I didn't. I also updated the results to include the 2023 class and the 2024 results.

Last time around I pulled data from Flo, but this time it is just the Real Big Board data from Willie. So there will be some differences based on that.

For this round I am focusing on the Top 10 recruits. Like Jesse James with banks, that is where the money is.

• The Top 10 only produced 39% of the AAs in the sample, but they produced 77% of the Champions. So, it seemed like they should be their own category.
• The next 10 (11 - 20) produced 18% of the AAs and 16% of the champions. That seemed like their own bucket too.
• The next 20 (21 - 40) produced 19% of the AAs and that gets us to 76% and that is enough.

As suspected, Penn State and Ohio State dominate the Top 10 recruits with 18 each. If you were to rank the recruiting classes without knowing what the results would be for the whole 11 years, it would probably look like this. 

• A tie between Ohio State and Penn State with Oklahoma State a little way back, and Iowa/Michigan a long way back.

If you re-rank those classes based on results, I think it would look like this.

Penn State runs away with it.

• While Penn State and Ohio State each had 18 Top 10 recruits in 11 years, the Penn State recruits produced a whopping 33 trips to the finals and 25 total individual titles. Bo Nickal was right. That's what they do.
• Oklahoma State drops from #3 to #7 once you see the results. While their 12 Top 10 recruits produced 16 AA's, they only had 1 title out of 6 finalists. 
• Iowa also slips a spot from #4 to #5 as their 7 recruits produced 6 trips to the finals with 3 titles.
• Michigan drops from #5 to #10 having gotten only 9 AAs and 1 title from their 7 Top 10 recruits.
• Meanwhile Missouri and Cornell did more with less. Missouri moves up from #12 to #4 once you factor in their 5 titles from 5 trips to the finals with only 3 Top 10 recruits.
• Cornell jumps from #7 to #3 on the strength of their 6 titles from 6 finals with 5 top 10 recruits.
• Arizona State hangs in there at #6 in both the before and after rankings.

Oklahoma State should have 2 titles from Heil, 3 from Ringer, and 1 from Ferrari?

Edit: I just realized this is strictly talking about top 10 recruits and not over-achieving results from others.

But as usual, that's a fun overview. My biggest takeaway from this data is how amazing of a recruiter Tom Ryan must be. I did not realize he was dominating Iowa and OKST like that.

Edited Monday at 11:13 PM by BruceyB

[MNRodent]

I don't see nearly enough rodents on your big board chart.

[Wrestleknownothing]

36 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Oklahoma State should have 2 titles from Heil, 3 from Ringer, and 1 from Ferrari?

Edit: I just realized this is strictly talking about top 10 recruits and not over-achieving results from others.

But as usual, that's a fun overview. My biggest takeaway from this data is how amazing of a recruiter Tom Ryan must be. I did not realize he was dominating Iowa and OKST like that.

Correct. Heil was #15, so he is in this group:

Dieringer would have been in the 2012 class.

[Wrestleknownothing]

And for completishness, here are the 21 - 40

[WrestlingFan89]

38 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

I don't see nearly enough rodents on your big board chart.

Had one, and he won the Olympics.

[Wrestleknownothing]

50 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

I don't see nearly enough rodents on your big board chart.

There weren't nearly enough. I cut the tables off at a minimum of 2 in the category.

[BruceyB]

So volume of top 40 big boarders looks like this..

18 for Iowa

28 for Penn State

29 for Oklahoma State

33 for Ohio State

Interesting..

[Spencerlee]

Iowa, doing more with less.

[macwoodfleet]

3 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

Iowa, doing more with less.

They haven't won a national championship at a higher weight than 133 since Derek St. John...

[666]

3 minutes ago, macwoodfleet said:

They haven't won a national championship at a higher weight than 133 since Derek St. John...

He won a title? I can't remember. Who did he beat in the finals?

[macwoodfleet]

2 minutes ago, 666 said:

He won a title? I can't remember. Who did he beat in the finals?

Jason Welch.

[666]

4 minutes ago, macwoodfleet said:

Jason Welch.

Oh yeah. Thanks! The thing I most remember about St John was him getting smoked by David Taylor, hehe, 

[BruceyB]

6 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

Iowa, doing more with less.

Ahem. Really? Jayden Eirman, Pat Lugo, Real Woods, Michael Caliendo, Jared Franek, Kyle Parco, Jacori Teemer, and Stephen Buchanon. Iowa, doing more by sniping other teams talent.

[666]

2 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Ahem. Really? Jayden Eirman, Pat Lugo, Real Woods, Michael Caliendo, Jared Franek, Kyle Parco, Jacori Teemer, and Stephen Buchanon. Iowa, doing more by sniping other teams talent.

If you want to slam Iowa over that you should talk about the famous "double class" they pulled when they robbed VTech! 

[BruceyB]

4 minutes ago, 666 said:

If you want to slam Iowa over that you should talk about the famous "double class" they pulled when they robbed VTech! 

I'm not trying to slam Iowa, I was just replying to Mr. Lee's insinuation that Iowa is doing more with less by ignoring their use of transfers to makeup for a recruiting deficiency. 

And the VT5 didn't do anything wrong to Virginia Tech. They committed to Tom Brands, and when he was going to Iowa, they wanted to wrestle for the coach who recruited them. They were Tom's guys and should have been free to transfer when their head coach left.

[Wrestleknownothing]

53 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

Iowa, doing more with less.

If that were true they would not move down in the rankings once results are factored in.

Cornell and Missouri are doing more with less.

I think the fair way to characterize it is that Iowa is making up for recruiting deficiencies with strong transfers. There is more than 

[Spencerlee]

19 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If that were true they would not move down in the rankings once results are factored in.

Cornell and Missouri are doing more with less.

I think the fair way to characterize it is that Iowa is making up for recruiting deficiencies with strong transfers. There is more than 

There are a lot of years factored  in this before Iowa went heavy in the portal.

Edited yesterday at 02:01 AM by Spencerlee

[VakAttack]

55 minutes ago, 666 said:

Oh yeah. Thanks! The thing I most remember about St John was him getting smoked by David Taylor, hehe, 

I don't think that's totally fair to DSJ. They wrestled three times. Taylor won by major the first time, but then two decisions at Big 10s and NCAAs.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have spent some time cleaning up the Big Board data @Husker_Du so kindly shared. Who knew Shakur Rasheed was Corey Rasheed in high school? I am sure some of you did, but I didn't. I also updated the results to include the 2023 class and the 2024 results.

Last time around I pulled data from Flo, but this time it is just the Real Big Board data from Willie. So there will be some differences based on that.

For this round I am focusing on the Top 10 recruits. Like Jesse James with banks, that is where the money is.

• The Top 10 only produced 39% of the AAs in the sample, but they produced 77% of the Champions. So, it seemed like they should be their own category.
• The next 10 (11 - 20) produced 18% of the AAs and 16% of the champions. That seemed like their own bucket too.
• The next 20 (21 - 40) produced 19% of the AAs and that gets us to 76% and that is enough.

As suspected, Penn State and Ohio State dominate the Top 10 recruits with 18 each. If you were to rank the recruiting classes without knowing what the results would be for the whole 11 years, it would probably look like this. 

• A tie between Ohio State and Penn State with Oklahoma State a little way back, and Iowa/Michigan a long way back.

If you re-rank those classes based on results, I think it would look like this.

Penn State runs away with it.

• While Penn State and Ohio State each had 18 Top 10 recruits in 11 years, the Penn State recruits produced a whopping 33 trips to the finals and 25 total individual titles. Bo Nickal was right. That's what they do.
• Oklahoma State drops from #3 to #7 once you see the results. While their 12 Top 10 recruits produced 16 AA's, they only had 1 title out of 6 finalists. 
• Iowa also slips a spot from #4 to #5 as their 7 recruits produced 6 trips to the finals with 3 titles.
• Michigan drops from #5 to #10 having gotten only 9 AAs and 1 title from their 7 Top 10 recruits.
• Meanwhile Missouri and Cornell did more with less. Missouri moves up from #12 to #4 once you factor in their 5 titles from 5 trips to the finals with only 3 Top 10 recruits.
• Cornell jumps from #7 to #3 on the strength of their 6 titles from 6 finals with 5 top 10 recruits.
• Arizona State hangs in there at #6 in both the before and after rankings.

Great work as always, Waltuh. Now, the important question is, does this math stuff support or refute the claim that Ohio State was left in the oven for too long? 

[RawDog]

Isn't Hendrickson, hamiti, amine, and fish all transfers?

Isn't Messinbrink, kerk, nagao, truax and Dean all transfers?

Seems like all the big schools are poaching talent except Ohio State.

Not sure why Iowa is being so heavily criticized for poaching when Penn State and Oklahoma state are doing the same.

[okokzach]

4 minutes ago, RawDog said:

Isn't Hendrickson, hamiti, amine, and fish all transfers?

Isn't Messinbrink, kerk, nagao, truax and Dean all transfers?

Seems like all the big schools are poaching talent except Ohio State.

Not sure why Iowa is being so heavily criticized for poaching when Penn State and Oklahoma state are doing the same.

I wouldn't call what OSU did poaching. Hendrickson literally wasn't allowed to continue wrestling with Air Force so he had to go somewhere. The other 3 for one reason or another wanted to change things up in their final year after not having as much success as they had hoped for.

[Wrestleknownothing]

The whole "our transfers are virtuous, yours are an indictment" thing is so tired

[MPhillips]

23 minutes ago, RawDog said:

Seems like all the big schools are poaching talent except Ohio State.

People either respect/get it or they want Tom Ryan fired.  Buckeye wrestling fans are OR are becoming like Buckeye FB fans, miserable and cunty...

 

[ionel]

26 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

People either respect/get it or they want Tom Ryan fired.  Buckeye wrestling fans are OR are becoming like Buckeye FB fans, miserable and cunty...

 

 ... but you are a fan ...